Looking for Help with Truck Purchase

[Gary RV_Wizard]

How do most folks handle the height problem between the top of the bed rails and the bottom of the trailer. We need 8 inches and we have that with our current truck. Looking at the new Chevrolets there will only be two inches. Not enough.

All of the new trucks seem tall at the sides, not leaving much room between the trailer and the side rails of the box. I'm not sure if the pick-up boxes are deeper or the suspension/tires taller (or both), but this lack of clearance is a problem to those who pull 5W trailers.  Maybe owners of late model Chevys, Fords and Dodges comment on the amount of clearance they have and any ideas for increasing it?

 

[ironrat]

I just reported on what you wrote. Double negatives, which you put in your statement, always equal a positive! If you also read what I wrote, I said I thought you probably did not mean it that way.

Now then, your statement that "DRW in them self do not increase tow capacity" is not completely true. Granted DRW neither gives the TV more power nor more total GCVW. What DRW does is give the TV a higher load bearing capacity at the king pin or bumper hitch. Most of the load bearing limitation of the TV is in the carrying capacity of its tires. While single tire generally has slightly more load carrying capacity than the same tire in a dual application, two of that tire carry much more than one single. For instance, the tires on my DRW TV are rated to carry 3195 pounds at 80 psi cold in a single application. They are rated slightly less in a dual application at 2910 pounds at the same air pressure. Therefore the tires on the rear axle in my TV can carry 11,640 pounds vs the same tires on an SRW which will only support 6390 pounds. If the tires weigh 75 pounds each, I've still gained 5,100 pounds in load bearing capacity.


Your only considering the tire load here, that's not enough. There are frame, spring, pin mounting postion and others that need to be considered. For instance if someone is buying used they could end up with a 3/4 ton truck that someone added DRW's to, probably not getting the increase load carrying one thinks they are getting. All is not always as it seems it should be in the used market, though this would probably not be an issue buying new but one should be aware of possible issues that should be more than just looking at tire load ratings, one should get more verification of any trucks load carring capacity before buying is all I'm saying. 

 

[Brother Bear]

Your only considering the tire load here

OK I give up! We are talking about the benefits of DRW or lack thereof. That whole conversation revolves around 2 extra tires. As I look at the 5th wheel towing chart for my truck, it says that the GCVW does not change between similarly equipped SRW and DRW '08 Ford F-350s. If I look at the same vehicles in the cargo capacity chart, the DRW clearly is rated for more. What's changed besides the extra 2 tires?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Don't know how you read (DRW is almost always needed) I'm no english major at all and don't want to be ,granted I was not that clear but I think most understood it. "DRW is just about never needed" is more of how I meant it to sound.

DRW in them self do not increase tow capacity, in most cases they decrease it because of their added weight taking away from the GCWR limit but sometimes will increase the pin weight capacity.
The stopping capacity would be increased some because of the extra tires on the ground yes but only in a slide situation.
The stability for sure is better but depending on the size and weight of the 5ver one may not notice.
Bottom line is I think they are always desirable just not always needed. Oh and y0es I do have a DWR Chevy pulling my 38 ft goose neck race car trailer.

Wrong, you would be right if we were living in the 90's but that is no longer the case. I have an 08 F350 SRW (single rear wheel), my GCWR is 23,500, an 08 F350 DRW (dual rear wheel) has a GCWR of 26,000. The limiting factor these days is tires not engine and transmissions. Back in the 80's/90's the engines and transmissions were your limiting factors so if you had a dually you could haul more weight but tow less.

 

[Derby6]

Gizmo,
  FWIW, here is my .02 to the questions I believe you had.  For my opinions, I have assumed that you are not used to driving large vehicles, especially on a regular basis and that you are not a diehard mechanic that likes to plink and tweak your vehicles for performance.
1- You want a SRW. As a daily driver a DRW can be a pain, especially for one that is not used to driving such a vehicle on a regular basis.  Yes this could limit some 5th wheels, but you?re at pretty small trailer now and I can't see you having to the max size available trailer to be happy.  There is some increased DRW costs as mentioned, but they are probably minimal in the scheme of things.  DRW is worse in snow too. (if you plan to leave AZ)
2- The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) additive is a VERY negligible cost.  You put in a few gallons every 5-8K.
3- The power and reliability of the newer Diesels are amazing.  Some here have alluded to the Power, mileage, and reliability of their ?favorite? older trucks.  I don?t see you as one that wants to always be researching, modifying, and plinking to max your trucks ability.  Not to mention in older trucks, like it or not, start to require maintenance and on occasion have an issue (Alternators, starters, bearings galore, etc?).  That is not cheap and can ruin trips, especially if you are not a mechanic and/or prepared. 
#3 is what made me upgrade from my ?97 PSD to a ?11 PSD.  For me when I have a weekend or family in for a fishing trip, etc., I couldn?t afford a hick-up.  Reliability is important to me (Time=Money)  Yes anything, new or old, can have an issue or breakdown, but as a general rule of thumb IMO the newer is more reliable. 

 

[Gizmo]

Gizmo,
  FWIW, here is my .02 to the questions I believe you had.  For my opinions, I have assumed that you are not used to driving large vehicles, especially on a regular basis and that you are not a diehard mechanic that likes to plink and tweak your vehicles for performance.
1- You want a SRW. As a daily driver a DRW can be a pain, especially for one that is not used to driving such a vehicle on a regular basis.  Yes this could limit some 5th wheels, but you?re at pretty small trailer now and I can't see you having to the max size available trailer to be happy.  There is some increased DRW costs as mentioned, but they are probably minimal in the scheme of things.  DRW is worse in snow too. (if you plan to leave AZ)
2- The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) additive is a VERY negligible cost.  You put in a few gallons every 5-8K.
3- The power and reliability of the newer Diesels are amazing.  Some here have alluded to the Power, mileage, and reliability of their ?favorite? older trucks.  I don?t see you as one that wants to always be researching, modifying, and plinking to max your trucks ability.  Not to mention in older trucks, like it or not, start to require maintenance and on occasion have an issue (Alternators, starters, bearings galore, etc?).  That is not cheap and can ruin trips, especially if you are not a mechanic and/or prepared. 
#3 is what made me upgrade from my ?97 PSD to a ?11 PSD.  For me when I have a weekend or family in for a fishing trip, etc., I couldn?t afford a hick-up.  Reliability is important to me (Time=Money)  Yes anything, new or old, can have an issue or breakdown, but as a general rule of thumb IMO the newer is more reliable.

Thank you for some very helpful information, you have helped me narrow my search and substaniated some of my thoughts as I research.  You also have made some pretty accurate assumptions of me, in that the largest truck I have driven on a daily basis is a 1/2 ton double cab with a long bed, some years ago.  While I have tinkered with vehicles here and there, I am not a mechanic and more and more, I just assume bring my vehicles to my mechanic for service.  I am in fact leaning towards a SRW as you suggested, in part for reasons you have shared here and because our needs are not likely to require the largest 5th wheels when the time comes, a few years from now. Snow may indeed become an issue as we like to go up to Flagstaff, the White Mountains of AZ as well as Colorado, so knowing the SRW may be better in snow is good to know. 

 

[CampFool]

There is one big additional cost associated with the DRW. I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned. Body work. Those extra wide rear wheel fenders tend to catch on things, like power poles, other cars, fences. For a 5er, I'd get a 1 tone with SRW and keep the trailer well within the payload capacity of the truck. Don't forget the 8 ft bed.

 

[GIB]

I think you should check the 2011 or 12 GM . It is a totally new truck from the 2010. If you get the 2500 HD on 18 inch rubber it is amazing. I pulled a 38 foot Montana from Ontario Canada to California which half of the time was in mountains and got 10.2 mpg to the us gallon. We drove 69 miles /hour and slowed to 60 mile/hour in strong winds. At  60 miles/hour even in strong cross winds I didn't get white nuckles .In the head wind the truck didn't know the difference just the fuel gauge. As far as th DEF it takes  one gallon per 1000 miles. It is more the inconvenience than expence. However if you pay someone else to do the service it would be done at the same time. One ton duallys run 17 inch rubber having less on the front axle and more on the rear. Also duallys eat tires even more because  with the ruts or grooves in the road one tire or the other is always bearing more weight wearing out the unloaded one. This sounds like bull but it is true ask truckers who buy their own tires.  The one ton srw carries about 300 lbs more in the box only than the 3/4 ton and tow the same. The dually can tow more. Check out HD rumble in the Rockies. This is an amazing story. However any of the big 3 is more  than capable of doing the job. Newer is definitely better unless you reside where it is
-40 degrees farenheit the DEF will definitely freeze and I'm not sure they have that figured out yet.

 

[Brother Bear]

There is one big additional cost associated with the DRW. I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned. Body work. Those extra wide rear wheel fenders tend to catch on things, like power poles, other cars, fences. For a 5er, I'd get a 1 tone with SRW and keep the trailer well within the payload capacity of the truck. Don't forget the 8 ft bed.

If you can't drive a dually without cracking it up, you can't tow a 5th wheel without cracking it up either, It's just as wide as, if not wider than, the fenders on a dually.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Actually, for towing purposes, torque is more important than HP.  All the HP does is improve your maximum speed where as torque defines the ability to accelerate (or tow).  Very few semi trucks are over 500HP, but they have 1200 to 1600 ft-lb of torque!

The only time you are using all the HP the engine can give is if your foot is to the floor, and the vehicle is NOT accelerating - if you think about it, this doesn't happen very often.

Correct. That's why I've modified my truck for the Torque curve more than HP curve. I create my maximum torque to the ground right at 2K on the tach which happens to be roughly 900 ft/lbs of torque. where most gasoline engine don't create their max torque till near redline. This why diesel engine have a long life span vs. gasoline engines they turn a much slow RPM's to create more FT/LBS of torque.

Old Dyno Stats. May 2007 - 381 HP / 831 Foot Pounds of torque at the rear wheels.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/145-2002-dodge-ram-dyno-results

 

[s2kskibum]

I have an 05 Duramax, 82000 miles, 3/4 single that I towed (a few times) a 38 foot fifth wheel. Still have the rails in the bed. Depending on what you end up wanting its a solid rig that I no longer need. Denver Craigslist.

 

[Gizmo]

I have an 05 Duramax, 82000 miles, 3/4 single that I towed (a few times) a 38 foot fifth wheel. Still have the rails in the bed. Depending on what you end up wanting its a solid rig that I no longer need. Denver Craigslist.

Got a link to it?  I tried Denver Craigslist search with no luck finding your ad.  Although I am not ready to purchase until after the first of the year, I have been casually looking.

 

[scottydl]

Got a link to it?  I tried Denver Craigslist search with no luck finding your ad.  Although I am not ready to purchase until after the first of the year, I have been casually looking.

It's in there, I found it.    Just a quick reminder to please keep buying/selling discussions private (over PM or e-mail) or post in the appropriate area of the forum.