Need 5th Wheel towing lessons

[AndrewChamber]

I am considering of buying a 5thwheel, but I have never tow one before. I was not very good at towing a trailer that I had. Before what might be a waste of money on a 5thwheel I was wondering if there are places where I can take some lessons on towing one? I live in the DFW area.

TIA,
Andrew

 

[RoyM]

I and likely most others learned by trial and error. Towing is not a big issue, just remember to leave extra stopping distance and swing wider on turns.
Backing up is a whole 'nuther story. What is your tow vehicle? If you don't yet have one, look for a truck with factory installed tow mirrors. The accessory clip on ones while decent are not nearly as good. The ones on our Ram, the best I have ever used, have a convex on the corners.
Find an empty parking lot and practice, practice, practice. I put a wheel chock down and kept at it until I could consistently back the tire up to it. Do the same on opposite turns. Same thing backing straight. Put the chock down and back until you think the bumper is just ahead of the chock then get out and check. This will give you a good idea of the length and distance from trees, fences etc.

 

[Bob Maxwell]

You need http://rvschool.com/ started by members of this forum. Many here with MH, 5-W's and TT's learned to be master drivers in their own rigs.

And some of the men are even allowed to drive occasionally. ;D

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I wish you lived closer to Michigan, i'd certainly help you out, there are a few tricks to backing that I can show you that would make you look forward to backing your RV into a tight spot.  just remember that in order to get the trailer going the direction you want when in reverse you must turn the wheel the opposite direction than you want it to go.  For instance if you want to push the trailer to the right you need to turn the wheel to the left, once you have it heading that way you can use little adjustments to get it right where you want, turn the wheel further to the left if you want it to turn tighter or turn it to the right if you want to straighten it out.  Now, it's usually a better idea to back the trailer in so that it is turning to the left (drivers side), because you can see everything a lot easier, but sometimes there are obstacles that prohibit that.  Like was said earlier, don't be afraid to take it to a parking lot and practice, trust me you're not alone.  It also healps to have someone outside who understands to stay in the view of your mirrors to help guid you in.

 

[AndrewChamber]

Thanks Stewie, I wish I am in Michigan. I sort of understand the idea of backing up but when I had a trailer and I needed to back it up into my garage, I could never get it as tight as I wanted. The other problem I had with backing resembles more of a serpentine than a straight line. 

The other problem is I get intimidated on a narrow busy street and if I need to make a tight turn into a parking lot. Does this ever happen to any of you? How do you deal with that?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

How do you deal with that?

I avoid narrow busy streets and parking lots.    Seriously - there are places you shouldn't try to go.  But if you are stuck there, make square turns, i.e. pull as far to the right and forward as you can before starting the turn, much further than you would with a car alone. That makes the swing wide and gives you and the trailer a chance to straighten out before passing through the narrow gap.

But I've got some bad new for you.  A 5W turns quickly and cuts the corner more than a travel trailer. If you have to travel narrow streets and make turns, you are going to have even more trouble. It is also less maneuverable when backing up and takes more driving skill to back than a travel trailer.

Here are some previous messages and articles you may find helpful.

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=23175.0

http://rvbasics.com/techtips/travel-trailer-towing-safety-tips.html

 

[hairscrambler]

Practice makes perfect. I remember years ago when I was a truck driver. I drove in Port Newark and always wondered how the heck those guys got the trailers in to such tight spaces. They would back in 40 foot trailers litterally inches apart and then pull them back out with out touching them. i learned real quick and within a few weeks was regarded as one of the best. Practice practice practice. Good luck.

 

[Marc L]

Thanks Stewie, I wish I am in Michigan. I sort of understand the idea of backing up but when I had a trailer and I needed to back it up into my garage, I could never get it as tight as I wanted. The other problem I had with backing resembles more of a serpentine than a straight line. 

Because you were backing up in the garage, I assume you are talking about a utility trailer.  Those are harder to backup in a straight line, longer is easier, however you need more room.  I don't have problems backing up my 29 foot trailer, but I have a hell of a time with my 15 cu.ft. garden trailer behind the ride-on. 

Practice is the only way to get it right.

 

[RollingRock]

What i did after going from a TT to a 5er, I went to the local high school parking lot and practiced for at least an hour with different kinds of problems I thought i would have.  I used a trash can and wheel chocks on the ground as markers for things to back up to.  I even practiced to parallel park the rig...never know right? 

What I learned as others have already stated, the 5er reacts differently, for instance, when backing up, my starts to turn slow but when it starts it REALLY goes so you kind of get used to turning back to it more and more...if you over shoot it, pull up on a few feet and turn back into it. That make not make sense. 

If you are interested I live in Keller I would be more than happy to help you once you get the new rig.

 

[edjunior]

One great tip I saw on some online place was what is called "a dip".  I will try and find the link.  The guy demonstrating it was pretty good and I have to use it every time I park my 5er at home.  Basically what you do is, as you are approaching the place where you are going to back into (in my case, my driveway), you start on the opposite side of the place.  Then you head your vehicle directly for it, then swing back out as you pass it.  This orients your trailer more towards the (driveway) instead of being 90 degrees to it. 

It's much easier to see him do it and explain it than me, but it really helps.  I've only had to take my 5er around the block twice since I've learned that to reorient myself.  And I have a pretty narrow driveway and street to work with, so I need all the help I can get!

 

[Ned]

We have used that technique on our motorhome for years.  Pull up close to the site, then turn across the road to get as shallow an angle as possible to the site as you can.  On a narrow road backing in from a 90? angle can be impossible, but from even a 75? angle much easier.  Most of the time we get parked in one pass.

 

[Joezeppy]

I used a trash can and wheel chocks on the ground as markers for things to back up to.  I even practiced to parallel park the rig...never know right?

I actually had to do this once. Got into a parking lot and had to back up to put it between a dumpster and a fence. Had a couple of folks watching me who even gave me some appluase when I was done.

One great tip I saw on some online place was what is called "a dip".  I will try and find the link.  The guy demonstrating it was pretty good and I have to use it every time I park my 5er at home.  Basically what you do is, as you are approaching the place where you are going to back into (in my case, my driveway), you start on the opposite side of the place.  Then you head your vehicle directly for it, then swing back out as you pass it.  This orients your trailer more towards the (driveway) instead of being 90 degrees to it.

This sounds like what I do, too. I try to approach the driveway so it's on the left, I cross the center line and then turn back to the "right" side of the road - like you said, this gives me a little head start on backing in. I don't mind cutting into the grass next to the driveway but I've got a guard rail across the road so there is no margin for error there!

 

[glfredrick]

One thing you should always remember is that the turn inititates at the tires!  When backing in or turning around a corner, the towed tires need to be at the place where the turn needs to happen.  If they are not quite there, you'll turn into the obstacle.

You need to think far ahead of what happens next also.  When you have 30+ feet of rig, you soon find out that roads, gas stations, parking lots, etc., are all made with 15 foot cars in mind.  Route planning and out-of-the-cab investigation is a fact of life for many a truck driver, and RV drifing is no different.  Sometimes you just have to size up the situation before leaping in.

Use a spotter and figure out an agreeable system of gestures plus voice commands before you start.  It is helpful if the spotter and the driver switch places once in a while, if only at a practice lot, so that both know what the other is going to be seeing and doing.

I drove over the road truck for a number of years in all sort of different configurations.  I'm one of those guys who can back stuff in with 1/2" to spare on each side.  Knowing how stuff turns is critical.  Knowing how to see in your mirrors is also critical.  Both take lots of practice.  I recommend an empty parking lot somewhere for the first couple of tries.

With a gooseneck or 5th wheel, you also need to learn what the trailer does to your truck when you swing in either direction.  Know how far you can jackknife the rig -- or if you can at all -- plus what happens if you are backing into some spot where the trailer goes up or down hill.  Will that make it hit the cab or bed sides?

 

[AndrewChamber]

Thank you so much for everyone?s great comments. It seems that there is something to learn in every post. It seems the answer that I most did not want to hear is the one that is most important, that is, practice, practice, and practice.  But even practice needs to start with some basic knowledge and I certainly got a lot of it here. It is also good to know what experience 5thwheel drivers are thinking in different situations, which gives me an idea if something is doable or am I just not skillful enough. Thank you all for being so helpful.

RollingRock, when I get a 5thwheel I just might have to take you up on your offer and get some added pointers if I can?t figure it out. I am close enough at Argyle.

 

[RollingRock]

Thank you so much for everyone?s great comments. It seems that there is something to learn in every post. It seems the answer that I most did not want to hear is the one that is most important, that is, practice, practice, and practice.  But even practice needs to start with some basic knowledge and I certainly got a lot of it here. It is also good to know what experience 5thwheel drivers are thinking in different situations, which gives me an idea if something is doable or am I just not skillful enough. Thank you all for being so helpful.

RollingRock, when I get a 5thwheel I just might have to take you up on your offer and get some added pointers if I can?t figure it out. I am close enough at Argyle.

no problem I am just down the road from you and there is a GREAT parking lot at Central High School I used.  We could also meet at TMS, there are some open lots there as well to practice on.  Just let me know if you want to do it, I am game!  You can PM me here.  Cheers

One great tip I saw on some online place was what is called "a dip".  I will try and find the link.  The guy demonstrating it was pretty good and I have to use it every time I park my 5er at home.  Basically what you do is, as you are approaching the place where you are going to back into (in my case, my driveway), you start on the opposite side of the place.  Then you head your vehicle directly for it, then swing back out as you pass it.  This orients your trailer more towards the (driveway) instead of being 90 degrees to it. 

It's much easier to see him do it and explain it than me, but it really helps.  I've only had to take my 5er around the block twice since I've learned that to reorient myself.  And I have a pretty narrow driveway and street to work with, so I need all the help I can get!

This is what I "try" to do at my house when we do service or extensive loading, I have had to pull around the neighborhood  a few times and I hate stopping traffic so I have learned to do it pretty quickly on the 1st try with mild pulling forward to readjust. 

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I actually had to do this once. Got into a parking lot and had to back up to put it between a dumpster and a fence. Had a couple of folks watching me who even gave me some appluase when I was done.

This sounds like what I do, too. I try to approach the driveway so it's on the left, I cross the center line and then turn back to the "right" side of the road - like you said, this gives me a little head start on backing in. I don't mind cutting into the grass next to the driveway but I've got a guard rail across the road so there is no margin for error there!

That is one of the little tricks I was talking about earlier, on construction sites in the mountains you have to do that or you will look like a fool, you spend enough time maneuvering trailers around tight sites with trucks that look like they were parked by monkees all over the place you can be amazed at how good you can get with backing a trailer.  Once you learn how to get the trailer started in the right direction you have it licked, you will eventually learn when to cut the wheel to make it turn sharper or straighten.  However, even the best need a spotter from time to time, pride goes out the window when you have to explain to a neighboring RVer that you didn't mean to back into his $500,000.00 motor home.

 

[edjunior]

However, even the best need a spotter from time to time, pride goes out the window when you have to explain to a neighboring RVer that you didn't mean to back into his $500,000.00 motor home.

Nay, not "from time to time".  I would say you always need a spotter.  I know at my house I will not back my 5er into the driveway without one.  Well, I have once, but it was "back up a couple of feet, get out and check the position of my tires, over and over".  See, in addition to having a fairly narrow driveway and road to work with, my driveway goes over a 5' deep and 5' wide drainage ditch.  If I miss the driveway, I'm in a world of hurt.  My spotter (wife) is not great at actually backing me in, but her primary function back there is to start jumping up and down like a monkey and yelling (which she does very well) when my trailer tires come too close to the edge of that driveway.  I have only backed the 5er in once without her, and it took many trips in and out of the cab to make sure I was lined up.  I try not to have to be in that situation.  Even as good as I have gotten doing this, my spotter is vital.  I think I'll keep her!

 

[Marc L]

In my driveway, I no longer use a spotter, done it too many times.  With my 4 mirrors (2 stock plus towing mirrors), with the light incline I can see my tires clearly and now know exactly when to cut sharp to make the turn in the driveway so I can go park next to the garage.  Kind of have to do a little S turn.  I know before hand that the path is clear when I drive in front of the house before backing into the driveway.

When I back into a campsite, my wife will spot for me, but just to tell me when to stop.  I pretty much have to rely on myself and the mirrors to line me up from side to side. 

Now I backed up last week at our seasonal site, due to the layout, we have a 6 inch thick ramp on one side to make the TT level, and due to the proximity of the deck, I have to park on that ramp, and cannot move it (the ramp can be moved, but the trailer will not be where I want it to be).  My friend was spotting me, he's very good, all I did was look at him through the mirror and did exactly as signaled.  Still took 4 attempts because the ramp is the width of the tire, not more and also I wanted the trailer to be perfectly parallel to the deck, I'm anal that way.

In my opinion, a spotter is only needed if you're backing up in a blind spot or need extreme accuracy.  It all depends on experience and comfort level.  Professional drivers rarely use a spotter, but they have the experience. 

When in doubt, use a spotter, if you don't have one, get out and look.  I still get out and look to where I will back-up when it's in a new location.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Nay, not "from time to time".  I would say you always need a spotter.  I know at my house I will not back my 5er into the driveway without one.  Well, I have once, but it was "back up a couple of feet, get out and check the position of my tires, over and over".  See, in addition to having a fairly narrow driveway and road to work with, my driveway goes over a 5' deep and 5' wide drainage ditch.  If I miss the driveway, I'm in a world of hurt.  My spotter (wife) is not great at actually backing me in, but her primary function back there is to start jumping up and down like a monkey and yelling (which she does very well) when my trailer tires come too close to the edge of that driveway.  I have only backed the 5er in once without her, and it took many trips in and out of the cab to make sure I was lined up.  I try not to have to be in that situation.  Even as good as I have gotten doing this, my spotter is vital.  I think I'll keep her!

I too have an extremely deep ditch on both sides of my driveway but no need for a spotter, i've backed so many different trailers in and out of that driveway that the spotter (who is my wife too) would almost be a hinderance because there are certain angles that I know work, she doesn't.  Also, if there aren't any obstacles to back into then I don't see the need for a spotter, i understand what your saying but there are a lot of occassions where either one is not needed or (most of the time for me) one is not available, sometimes you have to get out and look a time or two but you have to use what you have.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

In my driveway, I no longer use a spotter, done it too many times.  With my 4 mirrors (2 stock plus towing mirrors), with the light incline I can see my tires clearly and now know exactly when to cut sharp to make the turn in the driveway so I can go park next to the garage.  Kind of have to do a little S turn.  I know before hand that the path is clear when I drive in front of the house before backing into the driveway.

When I back into a campsite, my wife will spot for me, but just to tell me when to stop.  I pretty much have to rely on myself and the mirrors to line me up from side to side. 

Now I backed up last week at our seasonal site, due to the layout, we have a 6 inch thick ramp on one side to make the TT level, and due to the proximity of the deck, I have to park on that ramp, and cannot move it (the ramp can be moved, but the trailer will not be where I want it to be).  My friend was spotting me, he's very good, all I did was look at him through the mirror and did exactly as signaled.  Still took 4 attempts because the ramp is the width of the tire, not more and also I wanted the trailer to be perfectly parallel to the deck, I'm anal that way.

In my opinion, a spotter is only needed if you're backing up in a blind spot or need extreme accuracy.  It all depends on experience and comfort level.  Professional drivers rarely use a spotter, but they have the experience. 

When in doubt, use a spotter, if you don't have one, get out and look.  I still get out and look to where I will back-up when it's in a new location.

I agree with this post 100%, sometimes a spotter is a hinderance but when backing into a campspot that is unfamiliar you should use a spotter if one is available.

Let me ask you guys something, do your wives (when spotting) stand way far away from the RV when you are backing?  Jeeeez, my wife must think the RV is going to learch out at her or something, she's still in training, this is all new to her but she's getting better, i think I need to let her back it up (in an open parking lot) sometime so she sees what it's like, your spotter MUST stay in your mirrors. Not picking on the ladies, there are plenty that know there stuff and there are plenty of guys that are inexperienced too, spotting is not easy for someone who doesn't know what to do or where to stand.