Nitrogen for tires

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The fact is that by using nitrogen I get more mileage out of my tires and less pressure fluctation  which equates to less of a maint. issue...

If there actually were any such "facts" that would be true, but there isn't a shred of evidence that increasing tire nitrogen from 78% to 95% has any effect at all on mileage and pressure fluctuation. Or anything else.

As Chet says, eliminating moisture is the only tangible benefit and that is easily accomplished in other ways.

 

[therealsimpsons]

The decal on my new TT says "Nitrogen filled....better handling, longer life".  What a shame, 'cause here I am topping them off with the compressor in my garage with good ol' Texas air. 

Next year, we are planning a trip that will take us through Texas. Now, if we start out with Illinois air at home, will it be okay to mix good 'ol Texas air with Illinois air if the need arises?  :

 

[Ned]

I would recommend getting rid of the bad IL air and using all good TX air

 

[PancakeBill]

Ditto on what Chet mentioned.  If you get a compressor and do not add an air drier, you will introduce more moisture into the innards of the tire wheel interior.  Steel wheel will rust, alloy will oxidize, (rust), both can introduce micro leaks.

 

[Frizlefrak]

I would recommend getting rid of the bad IL air and using all good TX air

Strongly concur....but wait until you're in the desert.
The extra dust in west Texas air helps plug microscopic porosity in your wheels and cures slow leaks.  ;D

I'm sure the nitrogen does have some benefits....I'm just not sure they're worth the additional effort required.  The moisture filter is a good idea, and I have one sitting out in the garage I haven't used.  I will next time.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I just changed out my winter air and put in some nice warm summer stuff.  All Florida air, which is a little damp but delightfully fresh.

 

[Chet18013]

I just changed out my winter air and put in some nice warm summer stuff.  All Florida air, which is a little damp but delightfully fresh.

Sounds like HOT AIR to me.

 

[JCZ]

If there actually were any such "facts" that would be true, but there isn't a shred of evidence that increasing tire nitrogen from 78% to 95% has any effect at all on mileage and pressure fluctuation. Or anything else.

As Chet says, eliminating moisture is the only tangible benefit and that is easily accomplished in other ways.

Don't hate be because I discovered first hand, significant positive results from using nitrogen.Gary I went from roughly 8k miles per tire rear tire on my Harley to rougly 12k miles per rear tire after we started using nitrogen....that's a fact and my wife's bike experienced the same thing.  Tire fluctuation....using just air.....you always had to add air sometime during the life of a tire.....after we started using nitrogen there were several occassions where we did not loos more than a couple pounds of pressure during the life of the tires.......that's also fact.  You don't have to believe it but you can't change those facts.  I don't know if I got better MPG and I'm not even claiming that.  But on our motorcycle tires we got signicantly higher mileage on each set of tires after swithing and much, much less pressure fluctation.

By the way, there are a number of Harley riders experiencing similar results.  The extended mileage of a tire is icing on the cake.....the real benafit is the safety factor of consistent tire pressure on a motorcycle.  You think it's important on a trailer.....much more critical on a bike!  Real pucker factor when you have a tire blow at feeway speed.

A simple enough test when you put new tires on your motorhome or trailer....put nitrogen in all the tires on one side and put air in the other side.  Then tell us which side is loosing pressure and how often?

This is not directed at any one person (and certainly not trying to create an argument or a fire storm) but as I've stated above, I was one of the skeptics about nitrogen until I experienced it first hand.  While I was a skeptic, I didn't have strong feelings about it other than I just hadn't seen it for myself.  What surprises me is how negative people can be about something they've never experienced first hand.  They know not from where they speak but voice such strong feelings of their skepticism.  I can't help but wonder what the skepticism is based on? 

Consumer Reports even found a 38% reduction in pressure loss.  Click on this link for a bit of results and toggle back and forth between "passenger" and "fleet"....  http://www.getnitrogen.org/research.php

You can go to this link and then click on Jay Leno's video for another interesting perspective....  http://www.getnitrogen.org/index.php

Anyway, just suggesting that those that haven't tried nitrogen and done their own personal first hand research might want to just keep an open mind and stay in neutral until they do their own expermenting.  Just a suggestion....

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Consumer Reports even found a 38% reduction in pressure loss.

A big number, but like so many statistics, very misleading.  The CR long term test showed that both nitrogen and air filled tires lose air and require routine pressure checks. Nitrogen filled tires do indeed lose pressure at a slower rate, but the difference is small, just 1.3 psi difference over a one year period. Yes, 1.3 psi represents a 38% difference in psi loss vs air-only, but that difference is still not significant vs the total tire pressure.

Here is the summary result of the CR tests on  pressure loss:

The test started on September 20, 2006 and the final measurements were taken on September 20, 2007.  The results show nitrogen does reduce pressure loss over time, but the reduction is only a 1.3 psi difference from air-filled tires. The average loss of air-filled tires was just 3.5 psi from the initial 30 pressure setting. Nitrogen-filled tires lost an average of 2.2 psi from the initial 30 psi setting. More important, all tires lost air pressure regardless of the inflation medium, so consumers should check their tires' air pressure routinely. No evaluation was done to assess the aging claim.

 

[Born2Travel]

Doesn't centrifugal force separate the nitrogen from the oxygen and inert gasses - causing the air in the tire to become unbalanced?  ???

 

[Foto-n-T]

You obviously don't live where I do.  The mixture is a bit different here.  79% Nitrogen, 11-12% oxygen, 9% combination of inert gasses and soil particles.

The wind has been a bit annoying around the Coastal Bend as well.  On the plus side, those white fluffy things aren't blowing around in it like back in Wyoming.

To those traveling from Illinois  to Texas wishing to change over to Texas air in their tires:  Please make the exchange up near the Oklahoma border and don't pollute the air anywhere south of Brady with that nasty cold northern air.

 

[Olys45]

Simply put, with Nitrogen there is less fluctuation in the pressure of the tire, it is completely dry so no moisture gets into the tire. It would help in mountainous country or for people driving from the cold to the hot area's of the country.

If you have ready access to it and can start off with a new tire and rim, I'd say "go for it", but don't switch with an older rim because the corrosion may have started already so the tire/wheel combination is leaking already. No sense spending the extra money (possibly) of using nitrogen if the tire loses pressure due to a slow leak.

The USAF has been using Nitrogen on the KC-135's for about 8 years or so, and the crew dawgs don't have to service the tires as much anymore. It also keeps the accumulators at a more constant preload pressure.

I'm not going to be using it, mainly because I live out on the hinterlands of the Prairie and until I can secure my own nitrogen generator, it is hard to find.

Oly

 

[Ned]

Several people have claimed that nitrogen is drier than air, but there is nothing inherent in nitrogen that makes it so.  Dry air is readily available as well, and if the nitrogen source doesn't have a drier in it, it could be just as "wet" as undried air.  All the so called "evidence" that I've read about the advantages of nitrogen in RV tires is anecdotal at best, and conjecture at worst, and thus not real proof.  Real proof is long term study under controlled conditions, and I am not aware of any such studies for RV tires.  There is valid scientific proof of the advantages of nitrogen in certain, specific, mostly high speed applications, like aircraft tires and race cars, but none of those apply to auto, truck, or RV tires.

 

[Molaker]

P.U.!  Lots of gas being released here.  So, now let's see.  We want to use nitrogen because it will get more mileage out of the tires and not leak off as fast.  But then, we change our tires after 6-7 years regardless of the tread left and check the tire pressure (or use TPMS) nearly every day.  So, my opinion is "What real difference can it make on an RV?"  Are you going to quit changing tires due to age or are you going to quit checking tire pressure?  I don't think I'll get too excited if I don't find a ready source of nitrogen.

 

[bucks2]

Hey folks, what if someone proved that dry nitrogen filled tires didn't force small amounts of moisture and oxygen, into the tire at 100 psi, causing the steel belts to rust, weaken and blow out at freeway speeds? And, because we didn't force oxygen into the tires rubber compound, we slowed oxidation of the rubber so that tire life was extended by 2 years? (8 tires @ $650 per tire X 20% longer life = How much savings?)

Now the proof isn't there yet, but then how many of us put Aerospace 303 protectant @ $10 or $15 a bottle, on the tires to help stop UV rays? Where's your proof that it extends tire life? To quote Ned: "Real proof is long term study under controlled conditions, and I am not aware of any such studies for RV tires." Anybody have a 303 study they want to throw onto the table to prove it's value?

Anyone here wax their rig to make the paint last longer? Where's your proof that it works? Oh, anecdotal evidence again? I read in here where that wasn't really proof. Do you do it because you see the difference and you think it works better? Why does nitrogen in tires need scientific proof but wax doesn't?

Has someone got proof that changing your oil every year is better than every two years? I'm talking proof here, not what some salesman said. Shouldn't we demand proof that motorhome engines need to have the oil changed every year? Motorhomes are different than other vehicles, we should have proof that it's necessary for them before we change all that expensive oil. The contaminents in dirty oil are just a tiny percentage of the total oil volume, way less than 21%.

Hmmm, I wonder.

Ken

 

[Wavery]

Has someone got proof that changing your oil every year is better than every two years? I'm talking proof here, not what some salesman said. Shouldn't we demand proof that motorhome engines need to have the oil changed every year? Motorhomes are different than other vehicles, we should have proof that it's necessary for them before we change all that expensive oil. The contaminents in dirty oil are just a tiny percentage of the total oil volume, way less than 21%.

Hmmm, I wonder.

Ken

A little off topic but the reason that you need to change the oil once a year, regardless of mileage (with petrol oil) is because the organics turn to acid over time. The acid erodes the bearing surfaces. If you use synthetic oil, it's less of an issue.

Wax on the finish...... Most have UV inhibitors and just the fact that the shiny surface reflects the Sun's rays and a dull surface absorbs the Sun's rays is huge.

As for nitrogen in the tires...... here's your science:
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

 

[Molaker]

Hey folks, what if someone proved that dry nitrogen filled tires didn't force small amounts of moisture and oxygen, into the tire at 100 psi, causing the steel belts to rust, weaken and blow out at freeway speeds? And, because we didn't force oxygen into the tires rubber compound, we slowed oxidation of the rubber so that tire life was extended by 2 years? (8 tires @ $650 per tire X 20% longer life = How much savings?)

Now the proof isn't there yet, but then how many of us put Aerospace 303 protectant @ $10 or $15 a bottle, on the tires to help stop UV rays? Where's your proof that it extends tire life? To quote Ned: "Real proof is long term study under controlled conditions, and I am not aware of any such studies for RV tires." Anybody have a 303 study they want to throw onto the table to prove it's value?

Anyone here wax their rig to make the paint last longer? Where's your proof that it works? Oh, anecdotal evidence again? I read in here where that wasn't really proof. Do you do it because you see the difference and you think it works better? Why does nitrogen in tires need scientific proof but wax doesn't?

Has someone got proof that changing your oil every year is better than every two years? I'm talking proof here, not what some salesman said. Shouldn't we demand proof that motorhome engines need to have the oil changed every year? Motorhomes are different than other vehicles, we should have proof that it's necessary for them before we change all that expensive oil. The contaminents in dirty oil are just a tiny percentage of the total oil volume, way less than 21%.

Hmmm, I wonder.

Ken

Ken, your signature statement says a lot.  What I said is my opinion and I've been wrong before, too.  But I still don't see the need to search for nitrogen for the reasons given.  BTW, I don't wax my 13 yr. old RV either although I do try to keep it clean.  There are probably several things I could do differently that could improve the appearance and life of my MH, but I'm quite satisfied I'm meeting the basic criteria that will keep me going down the road safely.

 

[bucks2]

A little off topic but the reason that you need to change the oil once a year, regardless of mileage (with petrol oil) is because the organics turn to acid over time. The acid erodes the bearing surfaces. If you use synthetic oil, it's less of an issue.

Wax on the finish...... Most have UV inhibitors and just the fact that the shiny surface reflects the Sun's rays and a dull surface absorbs the Sun's rays is huge.

As for nitrogen in the tires...... here's your science:
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

Hmmm, so exactly 1 year is the optimum time to change oil, not 11 months or 13 months and 3 days. And if I drive 30 trips of 5 miles evenly space thruout the year I build exactly as much acid as if I drove one trip of 150 miles and the MH sat the rest of the time. Would the acid buildup and damage be the same if I changed the oil, let it sit 364 days and then drove 150 miles as if I changed the oil, drove 150 miles and then let it sit 364 days? I'm betting there isn't exact science with documented proof behind the change your oil at 1 year intervals method. I'll bet it's an good average guesstimate rounded to a number which can be easily remembered. Do you find it odd that years ago with the old oil additive technology you were supposed to change your oil at 3000 miles or every year and now with the new oil additive technology you should change your oil at 10,000 to 50,000 miles or every year? I believe changing oil at one year intervals is a good practice but I don't think any of us has proof that it is the best way.

You see what happens when we make "rules" about what studies we will believe and which ones we won't believe. I'll bet that every one of the folks that call nitrogen filled tires a bad idea or state that it makes no difference, abide by many other common truths that have no proof behind them. We accept them, and we believe them, but we don't demand proof that they are best practices. Along comes nitrogen filled tires and suddenly we have to have absolute proof. Strong opinions are expressed by people who've never tried it and those who have tried it and found it to be beneficial are told that it's not as good as they think it is.

Fortunately as US and Canadian citizens we are free to do as we please, whether we pay extra for nitrogen in our tires or get it free, or demand only Texas air. 

Ken

 

[wackymac]

Born2Travel---It probably would throw the tire out of balance if there were chambers in the tire but since the tire is open all the way around,  the heavier gasses would get thrown to the outside of the tire and be evenly distributed around the whole area thus keeping the tire in balance.

 

[Ned]

This is getting silly.  The gases in the air won't separate from centrifugal force.