Nitrogen

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The advantages of nitrogen for inflating tires is apparently well documented, but I'm just curious about how dry the nitrogen in tires really is, i.e.:

  • When a tire is put on a rim and inflated, how much of the plain old air is expelled by incoming nitrogen before the bead seals?
  • Manufacturers of nitrogen generators quote a purity of between 95% and 99.999x%, apparently depending on model (and cost).
  • Many moons ago, we used to have to specify (and pay a premium for) "dry" nitrogen from gas suppliers.
 
Tom
At oout place the machine would evacuate, then fill, then evac and fill, evac and fill.  This was supposed to eliminalte the 'old' air.  Neat setup, would lock onto the stems and just start working. 

 
I like the idea of dry nitrogen because moisture in the tire can cause the steel wheel to rust or the aluminum wheel to oxidize where oxygen has to be present to allow rust or oxidation to form the nitrogen would alleviate the problem.

 
PancakeBill said:
Tom
At oout place the machine would evacuate, then fill, then evac and fill, evac and fill.  This was supposed to eliminalte the 'old' air.  Neat setup, would lock onto the stems and just start working.
Click to expand...

Bill,

How do you evacuate a tire? As soon as you reduce the pressure below atmopheric, the bead will break and air will enter. Just letting the "air" out and refilling would require many, many, many repeats to get "most" of the air and moisture out. I am not sure how many times this would have to be repeated in order to approach 99.9+% nitrogen and essentially zero percentage water vapor. JMO

Richard
 
Our local government spent $18,000 on a nitrogen fill station for it's fleet vehicles....(supposed to be a secret)...and it doesn't work. Really, it doesn't work, can't get your government vehicle's tire filled there. Wish they had asked us first.
 
Bill,
I'm having trouble visualizing the evacuation process too. The fill & dump process would have to be repeated  multiple times, meaning a whole lot of nitrogen is used for each tire, and mostly dumped into the air. Nitrogen is inexpensive gas, but not free. Or is it recovered somehow, and the oxygen & moisture somehow removed so it can be re-used? That would make it a very expensive piece of equipment, and an expensive process.

I realize you aren't the designer of the system, or even the operator, but it has me mystified as to how this could be a practical method.
 
8)  i love this.......................  i used nitrogen for years,  but "only " in my race car tires.  we used it to help control expansion of the tires to get better control of the "stagger".  also used it for the air tools.  air works just as good  but the expansion is greater with air.

  all the ones that get great benefits from the nitrogen  the dealer recommended are the same people that buy all that stuff you see on tv. you know which ones i mean  "(just $19.95 , but wait there's more)"

  just another way for dealer's to make $$$ without doing much or investing a lot. !!!

JMHO


bob
 
The hose was attached, and air avacuated, not sure if there was any vacuum involved, but was told it did it three times.  Probably would never be 100%, but gets as good as it can.  My front tires were N filled 2 years ago, still holding same pressure.  Rears were replaced and air filled, have added some since installation.  I probably would not have paid for the service, but the dealer did t for free for me.

 
In my opinion, loss of air has more to do with the condition of the tire bead and valve stem than what you put inside. The tires on my rig and my car hardly ever need additional (air, in my case). I've had other vehicles that routinely needed to be topped up. I had a Lexus that got one soft tire every 25-30 days. Nobody could find a leak. I harassed the dealer until he swapped the wheel (not the tire) with one from another car and the problem went away.
 
Molecule size will have an effect.  Ever use CO2 in a bike tire?  Of course, bike tire casings and tubes are much thinner. 
 
I'm a bit of a skeptic about this also, but there sign said I'd save $147 in 20k miles and it was free. When the tires were put on they just did it like normal. I did find the link below about all this so there must be something to it.
http://tiresavernitrogen.com/index.html

Gary If you get down to TGO this winter I'll buy some beer from my $147 if it works, if not you buy, DEAL.
 
I'm game for any excuse at all for a cold beer, Dick.

I'd love to see the arithmetic that led to that $147 savings, though. Or the backing for the claim that tires with air lose 2 psi per month.  It's true, though, that more than a few people are running around on badly underinflated tires.
 
rbell said:
I'm a bit of a skeptic about this also, but there sign said I'd save $147 in 20k miles and it was free.
Click to expand...

Assuming only 10,000 miles per year, that would be $147 saved in two years or $73.50 per year. They have to be blowing smoke to make a claim like that! That is over a dollar per week--no way is replacing air with nitrogen in your tires going to produce that kind of savings. Like Gary, I need to see some figures, otherwise, IMO, it is just wild advertising hype.

Richard
 
For all you skeptics here's a link to a calculator to figure your savings. I think they sell swamp land in Florida also.

http://www.belletire.com/Nitro-Nize.aspx

Gary you don't even have to do the math now.
 
Who here, that uses Nitrogen, does NOT check their tire pressure regularly, and adjust when needed?  After reading all the hype, it appears that the only cost savings can be found by assuming that everyone without nitrogen is driving around with underinflated tires . . . Seems to me that if one checks tire pressure regularly, and adjusts appropriately, there is NO cost savings with nitrogen . . . but then again, I'm just a dumb civil engineer.  Maybe I'm not looking at it correctly.  Also, the claim that the tires will not oxydize as fast seems a little overdone.  The outside of the tire is still exposed to ambient air - and I'd be willing to bet that the surface area of the outside is several times that of the inside of the tire, due to tread surface area, and the fact that the outside of the tire is significantly bigger.
 
PancakeBill said:
OK, who wants to reverse engineer that equation?
Click to expand...

No need reverse engineer the equation, just show me how the 5% was derived! Why not use 10% and save even more?

When I plug in 8,000 miles/yr, $180.00 per/tire, $3.00/gal and 7.5 mpg, I save $208.00/yr!!!  Am I to assume that that is per tire or 6 X $208 = $1216./yr?? Someone tell me that they are not blowing smoke!! By changing from air 78% nitrogen to 100% nitrogen I can save from $208 to $1216 per year--What a Country!

Richard
 
From what I've read the biggest advantage of using nitrogen over air is that the moisture in air can be quite high at times. High moisture content can lead to overpressurization of the tire when hot and/or tire imbalance. I can see where a few ounces of water might be a problem. That should be more concern than maybe saving a tiny bit of money on fuel. Just be sure that the air you're using is dry and you should be okay. A possible savings of $147 by using nitrogen over a two year period is almost negligible. Heck, I probably spend more than that in a two year period just buying potato chips. Compared to other things we probably waste money on $147 is nothing. I'll stick to using air just out of convenience.
 
My RV probably has a bunch of water in the tires. My portable air pump does emit moisture, especially on humid days.

  May be there is a silver lining:  Perhaps the water acts the same as dynabeads and helps balance the wheels.  ;)

Carson
 
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