Odd Breaker Setup: Converter and SOME Outlets on Same Breaker?

[gtilflm]

Hi. I've got a 2009 Rockwood, and a friend is helping me install an inverter with an automatic transfer switch. In looking over the setup before install, we noticed a weird things with the breakers.

One is labeled GFCI and another is labeled GFCI / CONVERTER. They are both 15 amp. Turns out that the outlets on the front half of the camper (GFCI and regular ones) are on the breaker labeled GFCI, and the outlets in the back half of the camper (GFCI and regular ones), and the converter are on the breaker labeled GFCI / CONVERTER. This seemed stupid, so we put both wires that powered the outlets (front half and back half) on the breaker labeled GFCI, and left the converter on the breaker labeled GFCI / CONVERTER. We plugged back into shore power, tested everything, and all seemed to be fine. Converter activated, fan eventually came on when we applied enough load, outlets all worked, etc.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Have we potentially screwed something up? Would there be any logic of having the converter on a circuit with half of the outlets?

 

[CharlesinGA]

30 amp shore power? Quite frankly, the outlets should be split between two breakers. Why would you want everything on one? Converters don't draw a lot, Winnebago and a number of other companies tend to put the converter and the fridge 120v A/C heat element on one breaker by itself, the microwave will be on a breaker by itself or shared with the electric heat element of the water heater via a load shed box, and of course the air conditioner on a breaker by itself. Leaving two general purpose circuits for the receptacles.

That is how my Winnebago View motor home was done.

My trailer has the fridge on a fairly low use general purpose circuit with a couple of receptacles and the other general purpose circuit supplies the remaining receptacles and GFCI receptacles. I added automatic load shed to my trailer to combine the microwave and water heater, and the air conditioner is by itself. The converter is by itself also.

Many ways to do it, but the receptacles need to be split up, too easy to trip a breaker if they are all on one.

I hope you didn't put the two wires under the breaker screw, that is double tapping and is not allowed by the NEC. Should be a single pigtail connected to the two circuits via wirenut or Wago.

Charles

 

[gtilflm]

I hope you didn't put the two wires under the breaker screw, that is double tapping and is not allowed by the NEC.

Um.... yeah, that's what we did. I can pigtail it though.


The issue of having the converter and outlets on the same breaker is that we're now adding an inverter with an automatic transfer switch. So, if the inverter is on (which is supposed to energize all outlets in the camper), it will turn off the converter to avoid a loop. In the original setup, we would only have half of the outlets energized. Therefore, to make the addition of the inverter work even make sense, we can't have any outlets on the same circuit as the converter.

 

[laidbak3]

I'm having the same problem with my class c. My residential fridge and converter are on the same breaker. Trying to figure out how to get the fridge off and on it's own.

 

[Rene T]

I'm having the same problem with my class c. My residential fridge and converter are on the same breaker. Trying to figure out how to get the fridge off and on it's own.

Welcome to the forum.
My 1st question would be are you having any issues the way it’s wired now? If not then just leave it alone.
I’m not an electrician but if I were you, I would start out by finding the converter and see about wiring it up to another circuit. The converter usually is very close the your entrance panel

 

[Lou Schneider]

What kind of converter do you have? Some are built into the power panel while others are standalone units that plug into an outlet. If yours is built into the power panel you'll have to trace the wire from the converter to the breaker panel and see if it's doubled up on a breaker with another wire feeding the outlets in question. If it's external to the power panel and plugged into an outlet you can just move it to another outlet.

 

[John From Detroit]

Do you have a 30 amp RV? They have a limitied number of circuit breakers so they often combine stuff.
That is all I can say on 30 amp
And depending on where the Converter is (Some it's directly behind the fuse/breaker panel and easy to fix that issue Others it's a stand alone some distance away) it may simply be they ran one wire from the breaker like this outlet-outlet-Converter-Outele (one wire = one romex cable 3 wires bundled)

 

[Yoshi]

Hi, I had the same set up. Converter power and 110 outlet circuits on the same breaker. When I installed my inverter and transfer switch, I wired the converter into the transfer switch so it only runs when on shore power. I placed a 15 amp fuse (inside the transfer switch) in line to protect the converter circuit.

 

[laidbak3]

I have a 30 amp RV with the converter built into the panel. I installed a inverter w/battery bank and transfer switch, converter is wired in with 15 amp fuse. My inverter is powering the panel for the fridge and outlets but if I turn off the converter to stop the charging loop I lose the fridge and some outlets because they are on the same breaker. Hope this all makes sense. I can't put the converter on it's own breaker becuase of no more room in panel.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Just add a simple switch in the branch that feeds the converter. That way you can leave the breaker on. A typical RV converter doesn't draw all that much power, usually well under 1000W (750 is common), so a regular 120v wall switch or panel switch handles it nicely.

 

[Kirk]

Just add a simple switch in the branch that feeds the converter.

This will work but if your 120V distribution is part of the same assembly as is your converter and 12V distribution it might not be all that easy to accomplish. I'd look inside of the panel to see how the converter connects to the circuit breakers. If there are multiple wires from that circuit breaker it might be fairly easy to do. If in doubt, post some pictures here for more assistance.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I'd look inside of the panel to see how the converter connects to the circuit breakers. If there are multiple wires from that circuit breaker it might be fairly easy to do. If in doubt, post some pictures here for more assistance.

If wired to generally accepted standards, there will be only one wire to the breaker and it feeds a junction box where two or more sub-circuits connect. But being an RV, it wouldn't surprise me all that much to find it's just a big wire nut tucked inside the panel.

 

[Kirk]

But being an RV, it wouldn't surprise me all that much to find it's just a big wire nut tucked inside the panel.

I have seen 2 wires under the screw of a circuit breaker in more than one RV.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I have seen 2 wires under the screw of a circuit breaker in more than one RV.

Yup. I've learned that just about anything conceivable has been done in an RV somewhere, including factory designs.

 

[laidbak3]

Here are some pics of what I'm working with. I think I might run the fridge off of another circuit I found near the plug. The wires with the nuts are from my go power transfer switch. I wasn't sure if I could pull the converter wire from breaker and wire it to the transfer switch or keep it like I have now.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

If you wire it to the shore side of the transfer switch, insert a fuse or breaker.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Rather than double tapping a breaker (a violation of NEC) simply install a short pigtail of 12 or 14 gauge wire (strip a piece out of some Romex) and install it in the breaker, then use either a wire nut or WAGO Lever lock connectors to join the pigtail, the fridge circuit and the converter circuit. Winnebago almost always puts the fridge and converter on the same breaker, that was done on my Winnebago View. They used a ferrule and put both wires in it and crimped the ferrule and then stuck the ferrule in the breaker. The only breakers that are actually designed to be "double tapped" is the Square D Homeline series, which has a notch for a wire on either side of the screw and the screw tightens a serrated plate down on the wire(s). Square D literature notes that it is OK to put two wires on those breakers.

A Square D Homeline breaker is approved for use in Parallax Power panels, its in their list of approved breakers. I cannot say about other brands of panels.

As that is a power panel made by Parallax or one of its predecessor companies, you might consider a newer/better power converter. The Progressive Dynamics 46XX series (XX = amps of converter output) is a simple slide in fit and comes with a new fuse panel that makes the one you have look downright antique.

Charles