Prog Dynamic PD9130V Converter issue

[Pass me]

Hi folks, my older travel trailer has a Prog Dynamic PD9130V converter, it doesn’t have the optional TCMS charge wizard so it simply delivers the required amps at 13.6V till my 90Ah SLA is full. It then provides a CONSTANT “trickle charge” but there’s no info on just what this is. I’ve read trickle charging long term reduces the life of this type battery.
I would like to connect a Genius10 Smart Charger to the battery - while the trailer is connected to shore power - to occasionally equalize it. Can I do this or should I isolate the battery first? I should mention the battery is hard to reach, it sits in a well on the floor & under the microwave cabinet. It’s also enclosed/vented to the outside.
Ideally I will connect a Genius10 quick connection harness to the battery to allow for an easy peasy connection under my sink, plug this charger into the kitchen 110V outlet & let r buck! But is this safe?
Any advise/instruction would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[Isaac-1]

The simple way to get an answer is to connect a multi meter to it and see what the trickle voltage is.

 

[Pass me]

There you go, thanks. As mentioned the battery is a pain in the $@#!!! to access but definitely doable. I have a multi meter.
My aim here is to restore this battery as it's showing its 5+ year age. It's never been equalized/desulfated/maintained with an up to date charger so I'd like to try this before shopping for a new one.
Appreciate your quick reply eh.

 

[DonTom]

As mentioned the battery is a pain in the $@#!!! to access but definitely doable. I have a multi meter.

As long as you're below around 13.3 VDC on the battery while the converter has been connected for a day or so, all should be fine to leave on for a few years or so.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Pass me]

Hey Don, if I understand you my battery shouldn’t be to bad off even after a prolonged trickle charge? At rest/shore power disconnected it shows ~12.6V or ~75% charged. I’m curious to see if I can restore it and if yes by how much? It drops off quickly under moderate load when on house power as well.
My plan is to use the Genius10 smart charger full time when a new battery is required so I‘m kinda fishing here to see if I can use it in parallel with my OEM, e.g. in “restore“ mode the Genius can run up to 16.5V thru a battery (4 hrs max) so I’m concerned this might be dangerous.

 

[Lou Schneider]

The Norco Genius 10 appears to do the same things as adding a Charge Wizard pendant to the 9100. I'd go this route instead of trying to double up with a second charger. Don't confuse this with the similar pendant for the 9200 series converters. The 9200's logic is inside the converter and the pendant lets you select modes. For the 9100 all of the smarts are inside the pendant. Amazon says the 9100 Charge Wizard is "currently unavailable," I'd contact Progressive Dynamics and ask them about availability.

Charge Wizard, 4-Stage Battery Charging System

 

[John From Detroit]

IT is not a "Trickle" But a "Float" the 9100 supplies.

Trickle is a constant current
Float is a constant voltage Much better
And you can easily add the Charge Wizard.. It's just a plug and a screw Other than the screw (Which holds a dummy plug in the socket) it's no different then plugging a modular corded phone.
Remove screw. Dummy plug. plug in wiz-replace screw. DONE. just that fast.

 

[Pass me]

And that's what I was hoping for, thank you so much. Still learning all things battery & my hunch here was there would be no "Voltage A + Voltage B = boom/smoke/fire" but until you know....
The Voltage in the battery is what it is, multiple input sources don't compound it they just increase the existing amount. e.g. 12.6V existing, 2nd input Voltage = 16.5V....my multi meter will show 16.5V, not 29.1 Volts.

 

[Pass me]

IT is not a "Trickle" But a "Float" the 9100 supplies.

Trickle is a constant current
Float is a constant voltage Much better
And you can easily add the Charge Wizard.. It's just a plug and a screw Other than the screw (Which holds a dummy plug in the socket) it's no different then plugging a modular corded phone.
Remove screw. Dummy plug. plug in wiz-replace screw. DONE. just that fast.

I've googled this wizard and found only one source, I'm in AB so ordering out of the US can be complicated/a pain. And for the money I think this Genuis10 offers far more (8) charging options.

 

[Isaac-1]

Your solution should work, just leave the PD9100 connected for the heavy lifting when you may be drawing more than 10 amps, when you are plugged into shore power when in use , etc. I have a Genius 2D that I use as a battery maintainer on my home standby generator, installed a bit over 3 years ago, and still working, it replaced a cheap harbor freight battery maintainer that lasted about a decade.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

It would be useful to do a capacity test first so you know where the set is at. Without that baseline you can't quantify any benefit the equalization might have or if it's worth bothering with at all. Being nice to them late in life I think is a bit of wishful thinking but you have nothing to lose.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Pass me]

The Norco Genius 10 appears to do the same things as adding a Charge Wizard pendant to the 9100. I'd go this route instead of trying to double up with a second charger. Don't confuse this with the similar pendant for the 9200 series converters. The 9200's logic is inside the converter and the pendant lets you select modes. For the 9100 all of the smarts are inside the pendant. Amazon says the 9100 Charge Wizard is "currently unavailable," I'd contact Progressive Dynamics and ask them about availability.

Charge Wizard, 4-Stage Battery Charging System

Ua I found one source but I still think I'm chasing 25+

The Norco Genius 10 appears to do the same things as adding a Charge Wizard pendant to the 9100. I'd go this route instead of trying to double up with a second charger. Don't confuse this with the similar pendant for the 9200 series converters. The 9200's logic is inside the converter and the pendant lets you select modes. For the 9100 all of the smarts are inside the pendant. Amazon says the 9100 Charge Wizard is "currently unavailable," I'd contact Progressive Dynamics and ask them about availability.

Charge Wizard, 4-Stage Battery Charging System

Ya that's what I've found but I'm thinking why chase 25+ yr old technology when I can use a modern charger?

 

[Pass me]

It would be useful to do a capacity test first so you know where the set is at. Without that baseline you can't quantify any benefit the equalization might have or if it's worth bothering with at all. Being nice to them late in life I think is a bit of wishful thinking but you have nothing to lose.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Curios what and how to "capacity" test. Will this show the battery SOC/ indicate ~% of sulfation? The batteries holding 12.6V, I'm just assuming it's crudded up bynow never having been equalized.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Ua I found one source but I still think I'm chasing 25+

Ya that's what I've found but I'm thinking why chase 25+ yr old technology when I can use a modern charger?

Call me a Luddite, but there's nothing wrong with using 25 year old technology if it does the same thing as "modern" technology with less fuss and bother. If you're concerned with using obsolete technology go lithium. Lead acid battery technology is over 100 years old.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Call me a Luddite, but there's nothing wrong with 25 year old technology if it does the same thing as "modern" technology with less fuss and bother. If you're concerned with using obsolete technology go lithium. Lead acid battery technology is over 100 years old.

Yep, got it down to an actual science at this point.

 

[Pass me]

Nothing wrong with 25 year old technology if it does the same thing as a "modern" charger with less fuss and bother. Remember you're applying it to battery technology that's 100+ years old.

True that. Sniffing around these new Lithium batteries for instance, I'm reading they're cheaper in the long run but I think my existing PD9130 would have to be replaced or at least its charging side isolated from this type battery. If true now I've got to connect the new style charger but somehow keep the battery connected for the trailers 12V needs. Lots of unknowns for this camper.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Curios what and how to "capacity" test.

As you know, batteries are rated in Ah. The standard method is how many amp hours they deliver at a specific current level over 20 hours. To test this, it's as simple as drawing current with a load the same as it's specified for. So for a 100Ah battery, you'd apply a 5A load and it should run it for 20 hours until the voltage reaches 10.5V. A healthy battery easily will. As batteries degrade you'll see fewer hours it will run the load. No special equipment required, you can use loads already in the RV plus a voltmeter and a clock.

Will this show the battery SOC/ indicate ~% of sulfation?

There are multiple failure modes in addition to "sulfation" that will impact capacity. Practically speaking it doesn't matter the exact reason for degradation - it's unlikely you'll uncook the egg. But knowing the capacity of the set will tell you how close to end of service life they are. Generally speaking, a pack >80% is "good", 50-80% marginal, <50% on their way out.

I'm just assuming it's crudded up bynow never having been equalized.

Equalization helps by charging weaker cells through a controlled overcharge of the battery. But if one or more cells have been damaged by chronic undercharging/neglect then the condition is permanent. No way to know until you run an equalize cycle a few times and see how it affects capacity.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

Hey Don, if I understand you my battery shouldn’t be to bad off even after a prolonged trickle charge?

As long as the battery charge current stays low enough.

One thing you could do is when all is off, connect a battery maintainer to the battery. They charge up to ~13.35 volts and then shut off until the voltage drops a bit below 13V or so. That is what I do with all my ICE cars and motorcycles. I even use one on my Y2k RV engine battery. The house battery has enough solar to keep it charged up.

A battery maintainer like this one should work on any 12V LA battery. House or the chassis battery. What these do is automatically turn off and on as needed. Leave it plugged in for years and always have a fully charged battery that will never overcharge.

What they do is charge up to around 13.3 volts and turn off until the voltage drops below 13 and then it turns on again. I have eight of them in use right now, most of them have not been touched for months. I have one on all six of my ICE motorcycles, my RAM truck and Y2K RV.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Pass me]

Curios what and how to "capacity" test.

As you know, batteries are rated in Ah. The standard method is how many amp hours they deliver at a specific current level over 20 hours. To test this, it's as simple as drawing current with a load the same as it's specified for. So for a 100Ah battery, you'd apply a 5A load and it should run it for 20 hours until the voltage reaches 10.5V. A healthy battery easily will. As batteries degrade you'll see fewer hours it will run the load. No special equipment required, you can use loads already in the RV plus a voltmeter and a clock.

Will this show the battery SOC/ indicate ~% of sulfation?

There are multiple failure modes in addition to "sulfation" that will impact capacity. Practically speaking it doesn't matter the exact reason for degradation - it's unlikely you'll uncook the egg. But knowing the capacity of the set will tell you how close to end of service life they are. Generally speaking, a pack >80% is "good", 50-80% marginal, <50% on their way out.

I'm just assuming it's crudded up bynow never having been equalized.

Equalization helps by charging weaker cells through a controlled overcharge of the battery. But if one or more cells have been damaged by chronic undercharging/neglect then the condition is permanent. No way to know until you run an equalize cycle a few times and see how it affects capacity.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Thanks for this. My battery doesn't state Ah unfortunately, I'm using ~93 Ah ( CCA ÷ 7.2 formula) as my go to.
So 93 ÷20 = 4.65A for 20 hr.
So use a 5A DC draw to my battery and see if it lasts 20 Hrs, maybe a hair more. And use my Voltmeter to watch for 10.5V to avoid 50% or more drain on the battery.

 

[ferfer]

At rest/shore power disconnected it shows ~12.6V or ~75% charged.

FYI, a resting battery is fully charged at 12.6V, 50% at ~12.1 V and dead at 10.5V.

AT 12.6V your state of charge is good. Do the capacity recommended by Mark Post # 17, esp. because you indicated that the battery appears to discharge fairly rapid.

Based on your low amp hr. battery I am guessing you are on shore power primarily. If you do have to replace the battery you should evaluate if a deep cycle battery would benefit you.

Jennifer