Requesting recommendations: All-season tires for truck towing a fifth wheel?

[Freedom First]

Hi, everyone.  I bought my truck and it's in my driveway I bought my fifth wheel but haven't picked it up yet.  It's a 23-5A Arctic Fox,  ;D and yes, it's a shortie, only 23'.  GVWR is 10K, dry weight probably 7K (specs say 6600). 

My truck is a 2007 2500HD Silverado Classic, 4WD, crew cab, short bed.  The prior owner replaced the 16" wheels with 18" wheels, and it currently has almost-new Continental tires for highway driving.  I'll be replacing those with 16" wheels, as the truck was originally designed for that. 

Because I love to be in the outdoors in winter, my plan is to travel from CG to CG in the mountains, possibly boondocking when I learn more about that and after installing solar panels and buying Yamaha generator(s) and an inverter.  I don't know how many CGs will be open in the winter in the Northwest, but there should be a few that I can stay a month at a time (like near Eugene).

I live in eastern Oregon and am very familiar with mountain driving, but not with towing.  I don't want to be confined to driving only in the Northwest if I want to visit a family member or friend in the South, and so I'd like to avoid buying studded tires.  Can anyone recommend an excellent four-season tire for my truck?  I checked Tire Rack online and it seems the best one is the BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A.  Here's the short link to the info page for that tire:  http://bit.ly/QiViH0  I'd love to hear opinions on that tire, pros and cons, if anyone here has experience with them. 

Also, does anyone put four season tires on a fifth wheel?  The Arctic Fox is a 2008, so I'm pretty sure those tires will need to be replaced within a year or two.  Just thinking ahead.

I'm excited that after two years I'm finally able to get on the road with my beautiful little RV, but most of all I want to be safe.  TIA for any advice you can offer. 

 

[Foto-n-T]

I'll jump in here and start with the trailer tires.  Keep in mind that everything I say is "opinion", a lot of which is backed up by real world experience in doing what you're thinking about regarding camping.

I personally would leave the trailer tires alone.  You don't need big meaty treads on those tires, take a look at any over the road truck that runs in snow and ice all winter, the trailer tires will be just that, trailer tires.  Also, changing the trailer tires to a more aggressive tread will effectively increase the "un-sprung" weight thereby decreasing ride quality of the trailer, i.e. your stuff gets beat up even more.  In addition the rolling resistance of aggressive tires will have a negative effect on your fuel mileage.

About the truck tires:  By putting a more aggressive tread on your truck you'll be much more able to get yourself into trouble in the snow or mud.  Remember you're about to put a 10k anchor on the back.  For quite a few years we camped in some pretty bizarre places up in the mountains.  On more than one occasion I had to use four wheel drive to rescue myself or to even just get into a spot.  We did have T/A type tires on the truck but in retrospect I probably would have gone with a street tread, here's why:  1st, the aggressive tread is noisy and they really don't ride too well when under load.  2nd, tire mileage is less than a highway type tire would provide and 3rd, the rolling resistance of aggressive tires is considerably higher than highway type tires meaning you will pay for it in fuel mileage.

If it was me here's what I personally would do.  I'd leave the trailer tires alone as well as the truck, for now.  Do make sure that the load rating of the 18" tires is adequate for your truck when loaded with 2k-3k of pin weight.  The reason I'm saying this is because you're learning curve is going to be pretty steep during the first year.  Believe me, it's easy to get yourself in hot water up in the mountains and aggressive tires will tend to give you what might just be a false sense of security.  It can be a lot of fun to disappear up into the mountains with your rig but keep in mind that it's also pretty easy to get in over your head, start slow and work your way up from there.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

As for out here in Idaho we just chain up the trailer and the 4 wheels of the truck and keep going. As for tires I been using just a standard road radial and nothing more. I avoid aggressive tires because of the rolling resistance and the rotational mass problems that will reduce MPG's.

 

[garyb1st]

A word of caution if your truck has the equivalent of the Ford Tow Haul transmission.  A friend was pulling a trailer and descending a hill with black ice.  He had the truck in Tow Haul and, as he braked, the Tow Haul downshifted.  The truck slowed as intended, but the trailer immediately jack-knifed causing the trailer to swing to the side and ultimately into the ditch.  Fortunately, no one was coming in the opposite direction.

I also agree with Mopar Man on the chains.  A bit of hassle but for the most part the BF Goodrich Rugged Terrain work fine.  I have them on my F250 and have driven through snow without a problem.  If you do get chains, just make sure to try them before you need them.  I bought a set once and when I went to put them on found they were the wrong size.   

 

[RoyM]

Having a few years winter driving under my belt, I suggest staying away from all season tires. They are fine for occasional use in light snow but a good mud and snow tire would IMHO  be better for your needs.
We  have BFG Rugged Terrains on our 2wd with open diff, overall I am happy but don't like them on snow and ice. I have had to use chains more than once just to get out of the driveway.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Having a few years winter driving under my belt, I suggest staying away from all season tires. They are fine for occasional use in light snow but a good mud and snow tire would IMHO  be better for your needs.
We  have BFG Rugged Terrains on our 2wd with open diff, overall I am happy but don't like them on snow and ice. I have had to use chains more than once just to get out of the driveway.

Same with exhaust brake on my truck you must becareful with both because the same can happen with a exhaust brake too. Thanks for bringing up the tow haul because it reminded me of the the exhaust brake.

 

[Jim Godward]

A word of caution if your truck has the equivalent of the Ford Tow Haul transmission.  A friend was pulling a trailer and descending a hill with black ice.  He had the truck in Tow Haul and, as he braked, the Tow Haul downshifted.  The truck slowed as intended, but the trailer immediately jack-knifed causing the trailer to swing to the side and ultimately into the ditch.  Fortunately, no one was coming in the opposite direction.

When driving on snow or ice with a trailer *always* brake the trailer before any attempt to brake the tow vehicle including gearing down or using the exhaust/engine brake  This is a problem with most setups for towing cars etc. with a MH as none of the systems allow separate braking of the towed as far as I know.  This makes it interesting sometimes.

 

[Freedom First]

I'll jump in here and start with the trailer tires.  Keep in mind that everything I say is "opinion", a lot of which is backed up by real world experience in doing what you're thinking about regarding camping. ...

If it was me here's what I personally would do.  I'd leave the trailer tires alone as well as the truck, for now.  Do make sure that the load rating of the 18" tires is adequate for your truck when loaded with 2k-3k of pin weight.  The reason I'm saying this is because you're learning curve is going to be pretty steep during the first year.  Believe me, it's easy to get yourself in hot water up in the mountains and aggressive tires will tend to give you what might just be a false sense of security.  It can be a lot of fun to disappear up into the mountains with your rig but keep in mind that it's also pretty easy to get in over your head, start slow and work your way up from there.

Joe, thanks.  I'm actually quite pleased with your advice, as it means I won't have to shell out another 2 grand for tires and wheels.  Tires are rated "E," so they'll be fine.  I understand about "false sense of security" in the mountains, and will be careful that my sense of adventure doesn't override my common sense

 

[Freedom First]

When driving on snow or ice with a trailer *always* brake the trailer before any attempt to brake the tow vehicle including gearing down or using the exhaust/engine brake  This is a problem with most setups for towing cars etc. with a MH as none of the systems allow separate braking of the towed as far as I know.  This makes it interesting sometimes.

I'm taking everyone's advice and will buy a good set of chains, and try them on for size first.  Also, having always relied on studded tires, it's better to know how to put them on before I need to put them on. 

Being new to RV'ing, I'm new to the brake controller, too.  It's a Prodigy 3.  I don't have the manual in front of me now but I'm guessing it will allow separate braking if the driver wants that.  How much braking pressure (if that's the right term) do I apply for the fiver, and how soon before gearing down or using the exhaust brake?  I'm sure it depends on the mph and the grade and the severity of the snow/ice weather conditions, but is there some sort of general rule about it?  Ice worries me a lot more than snow, but how are you going to know about black ice until you're in it?

I'm meeting with someone this weekend who towed RVs for Northwood Mfg. for 20 years.  He's going to give me some pointers on my truck and what it's capable of, what to do, what not to do.  I definitely appreciate all these other issues that everyone has raised in this thread, because they're things I wouldn't have thought to ask him about.  Then the next week I go to Montana and get the RV.

I made assumptions that everyone would know about my truck based on it being a 2500HD.  It's a Duramax, 6-gear, with the tow haul feature.  My apologies for not making that clear. 

 

[Jim Godward]

Being new to RV'ing, I'm new to the brake controller, too.  It's a Prodigy 3.  I don't have the manual in front of me now but I'm guessing it will allow separate braking if the driver wants that.  How much braking pressure (if that's the right term) do I apply for the fiver, and how soon before gearing down or using the exhaust brake?  I'm sure it depends on the mph and the grade and the severity of the snow/ice weather conditions, but is there some sort of general rule about it?  Ice worries me a lot more than snow, but how are you going to know about black ice until you're in it?

You want just enough braking that you can feel it.  It is an acquired skill so be very careful.  It works well on snow.  Nothing works well on black ice but you want a little drag but not enough to lock  the wheels and start them sliding.  It is very touchy and oncethings start to slide you have almost no control if any at all.  There are some tricks to seeing black ice that are more like voodoo.  You expect it in areas that have had sun and are now shady.  The classic we had years ago was in a cut through a hill that was on a SSE heading on the highway heading the same direction.  The hill shaded the right side of the road but the on coming traffic had dry pavement.  If the wind was blowing, you would be pushed toward the on coming traffic and the dry pavement.  Things could get interesting fast.  Solved the problem when the Interstate re-built the road. 

I'm meeting with someone this weekend who towed RVs for Northwood Mfg. for 20 years.  He's going to give me some pointers on my truck and what it's capable of, what to do, what not to do.  I definitely appreciate all these other issues that everyone has raised in this thread, because they're things I wouldn't have thought to ask him about.  Then the next week I go to Montana and get the RV.

Listen carefully as he should have some good tips.

Where in MT??

 

[Billy Bob]

As for out here in Idaho we just chain up the trailer and the 4 wheels of the truck and keep going. As for tires I been using just a standard road radial and nothing more. I avoid aggressive tires because of the rolling resistance and the rotational mass problems that will reduce MPG's.

From a Texan on the Gulf Coast, why the chains on the trailer? Is this for braking. We don't have much ice or snow here. 

 

[Foto-n-T]

From a Texan on the Gulf Coast, why the chains on the trailer? Is this for braking.

In the commercial trucking world chains can/may be required on "one" wheel set of a trailer if a chain law is in effect, it's done for braking in order to keep the trailer behind the headlights of the truck.  Having been a heavy haul driver for a number of years I would NOT recommend that anyone chain up their camper with the intent of doing ANYTHING other than getting off the road and parked.  Even on a 105' long 120k lb tanker train about the only time I chain up is to get OFF the highway.

Also, on your brake controller you will find a little lever on the front.  That lever is the equivalent of the johnson bar/trolley brake on a commercial truck.  Please leave your finger off of that lever when the vehicle is in motion.  Using that lever is not something I would ever recommend.  In the commercial world the johnson bar has some use but seldom and in snow and ice conditions it is usually a last resort to keep your trailer on the road.  In the logging industry we use them all the time but we're coming down a haul road at 1-2mph.  Use the adjustment on the controller to prevent the trailer from "leading" the truck on braking in slick conditions.  In normal conditions you want them to be equal or you will be replacing truck brakes quite soon.

 

[Freedom First]

You want just enough braking that you can feel it.  It is an acquired skill so be very careful.  ... There are some tricks to seeing black ice that are more like voodoo.  You expect it in areas that have had sun and are now shady ...

Listen carefully as he should have some good tips.

Where in MT??

Jim, after reading your post, I did a lot of thinking about the "voodoo" part of expecting black ice.  When you mentioned the SSE heading, I realized that in winter weather I'll have to be aware of where I'll be encountering north-facing terrain that keeps the sun from melting ice on the roadway.  That's exactly what nailed me 10 years ago in the mountains of eastern Oregon, heading toward La Grande.  Came to find out, that particular section of road is infamous amongst the locals.  Back then, most of my experience driving in snow had been learned in the Appalachians where, for some odd reason, I never had problems with ice.  I did a lot of mountain driving because my job took me to some remote places in Virginia. 

I'll be picking up the fiver at D & D RV in Helena.  Didn't realize until I looked at your sig that you're in Big Sky Country.  Can you recommend a campground close to Helena where I can take the fiver and become familiar with it, maybe drive it along some not-so-curvy roads, practice maneuvering in a big parking lot?  I installed a sideview/rearview camera system for my truck, so that will help me a bit with the learning curve.  Mostly I got the system to be aware of what's on the road in addition to using the towing mirrors, especially for spotting smaller vehicles and motorcycles.  I'm also going to call Broadmoor RV in Pasco, Washington, and see if anyone there gives lessons.  They're 200 miles from where I live, but I can't seem to find an RV driving school in Oregon.  I'd really like to have some hands-on experience before hitching up that RV and toodling down the road.

 

[Rancher Will]

Living and owning dozens of vehicles over the past decades in Colorado, I long ago learned that "All Season Tires" means the three seasons, Spring, Summer, Fall, when you will experience sunny days, rainy days, dry or wet roads. "All Season Tires" does not mean Winter in our, or other Northern States areas.

For Winter road conditions in the Northern U.S. we have learned to always have Winter tires on our vehicles from Fall to Spring. Since we live on a ranch, miles from the nearest town in the Mountains of Colorado, since Studded Tires were invented by Coors Company in the early 1960's, I have always required that all of our vehicles, autos and light trucks, install studded tires in the Fall and All Weather tires in the Spring. With Studded tires, we have never had to apply chains on our light trucks or autos on a highway, even in the mountains. Naturally, with studded tires, when pulling our 5th Wheel RV's we do not drive during Blizzard conditions since it is the poor visibility and not poor traction that is the problem. When the storm is over, we can then just go on with studded tires on the truck with no problem on pavement or solid road surface.

We travel all over the Western United States in every month of the year pulling not only our RV's but also our horse and stock trailers, etc. We have never had any legal or questionable problem with studded tires in the Winter, even when in the South, Texas, California, Arizona, or in the Midwest such as Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Indiana, Illinois etc.

We do carry chains in each of our light trucks for use off road if needed, winter or summer for deep snow or mud, etc. All of our Semi-Trucks are equiped with Auto-Chains so our drivers do not have to install and remove tire chains on the semi's in winter as required.

Those who have Motor Homes type RV's might consider Auto-Chains if they drive regularly in the Mountains.

 

[Freedom First]

Living and owning dozens of vehicles over the past decades in Colorado, I long ago learned that "All Season Tires" means the three seasons, Spring, Summer, Fall, when you will experience sunny days, rainy days, dry or wet roads. "All Season Tires" does not mean Winter in our, or other Northern States areas. ...

We travel all over the Western United States in every month of the year pulling not only our RV's but also our horse and stock trailers, etc. We have never had any legal or questionable problem with studded tires in the Winter, even when in the South, Texas, California, Arizona, or in the Midwest such as Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Indiana, Illinois etc.

We do carry chains in each of our light trucks for use off road if needed, winter or summer for deep snow or mud, etc. All of our Semi-Trucks are equiped with Auto-Chains so our drivers do not have to install and remove tire chains on the semi's in winter as required.

Thanks, Will.  I did a search for what the state laws are and came across a good website about chain requirements for different states. http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainsss.html  Since I live in Oregon, I clicked on that link first to see what Oregon's laws are.  Kind of surprised me about when chains are required if you're towing.  Short link here:  bit.ly/5OCqrG  Lots of good info in addition to chain laws.

I talked with a gentleman this morning who delivers RVs in the Northwest.  His truck has Cooper all-terrain tires, and he uses cable for severe conditions, but he didn't have time to explain his reasons for all terrain tires. 

One road for sure I never want to be towing anything on in winter, chains or no chains:  Oregon 204, also known as Tollgate. 

 

[Derby6]

Those Dura-Tracs are pretty good tires from what I've heard and got from my research.  That's what I'm gonna get next spring.  Here is my plan--Maybe an option for you as well--Not sure.
I'm gonnas sipe and stud my stock tires for this and future winters.  In the spring, I'm gonna buy new rims with Dra Tracs for summer road, sand, mud use. Simple tire/rim swap every spring/fall.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

If you travel dirt roads at all do NOT sipe your tires it will tear up the tires in a short order. Don't ask how I know this with a 400 HP Cummins...  :

 

[Derby6]

No dirt/pavement here in the winter on rural roads.  All snow and ice....lol ;D