Rig Upgrades - Newbie

[OldAZMTGuy]

Happy New Year!

I am counting the days towards retirement set for April 2023. My wife and I have a dream of travelling the US in our 2022 GMC 2500HD (gas std bed, crew cab), Northern Lite 8-11 camper, and smaller trailer for excess supplies (Manley MORV off-road utility trailer). I purchased the truck last August and have not yet purchased the camper nor trailer. The truck is a single axle gas engine but loaded including infrastructure for 5th wheel.

My questions surround handling on and off road including roll, sway, ect I may encounter travelling through the Northwest and East all the way to FLA through TX or TN. I have read a few articles suggesting upgrades such as sway bars, bump stops, helper spring, and airbags. In my research, I found Hellwig airbags are not available for my truck. I also found most all article suggested I test the entire rig before adding upgrades. I want to retain or improve ride when camper is not installed. The trailer is 775# unloaded while the camper is listed at a dry weight of 2800 pounds. The truck is rated at 24K GCWR and max payload at 3760#.

Does anyone own a similar set-up and any comments suggestions in terms of upgrades. I really like the idea of airbags as it seems I can revert back to OEM thus retaining OEM ride quality.

Thank you!

 

[tlmgcamp]

You are quoting "dry" and "unloaded" weights. When you add water, propane, food, lawn chairs, toolbox, stabilizer jacks, options, etc to the camper on top of people and the tongue weight of the loaded trailer, it seems like you will be right up there at your max. You can spruce up the suspension but that won't help the drivetrain

 

[Domo]

Yes, test it once you have the camper/trailer on it.

Otherwise it's like tightening your belt too much BEFORE the barbecue.

You can always spend more money on your ride. I'd rather you spend your money on fuel and great campsites!

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Using dry and unloaded weights lulls you into false security. First of all, they are often low-ball numbers, representing the lightest possible configuration rather than the most typical equipment. Further, most newcomers severely underestimate how much stuff they will add, especially after a few trips. Every time you go out, you will add a few handy items but rarely ever remove anything, so the weight grows & grows.

You should be fine on GCWR, but I think you will be really pushing the limits on Payload. You have less than 1000 lbs to play with and that has to cover passengers as well as everything to put in the camper plus the trailer tongue weight and the ball hitch itself. Make sure you check the federal weight labels on actual samples of that camper - you may be surprised what the actual dry weight is. And make sure you know what additional equipment you will be using, e.g. jacks, steps, etc.

I recommend you do not do any truck mods until you have at least a few trips under your belt. Also that you weigh the truck with the camper onboard at least twice, once as it is when you bring it home or with whatever you know you will always have with you, and once again after loading for a trip (including passengers).

 

[OldAZMTGuy]

Well folks, after the rain let up I ventured outside to check the exact specs. The load capacity is stamped as just under 3200#. Needless to say, this is disappointing. Regardless, I continue to press forward researching how I can improve my numbers. My goal is to have the capability carrying a TOTAL load of 4000+#. To begin, I will build a spreadsheet to include ALL carried items. I will contact my GM service tech trying to ID the load rating on the axles and wheels; the current tires are 10 ply rated at 3760#. Further, I want to retain or improve the OEM ride quality by adding (I assume) adjustable air bags including an onboard compressor but also maximize stability for winding roads or off-road dirt roads.

As a matter of understanding my options, is airbags the best way to go and is Readylift, Firestone or Air Lift Loadlifter5000 the better way to go? I see the airbags are placed at the rear, what about front? Are additional load bearing components such as leaf spring helpers also suggested? What about stability components (I assume sway bars?)? I have located quality aluminum wheels rated at 4000# and tires at 3860#. If short, I am trying to identify and then improving my "weakest links" but also removing uneasy feeling when travelling winding or bumpy roads/highways.

Thank you and Happy new Year!

 

[tlmgcamp]

Instead of loading up the truck with a camper and pulling the toys in a trailer, why not get a small toy hauler?

 

[OldAZMTGuy]

Instead of loading up the truck with a camper and pulling the toys in a trailer, why not get a small toy hauler?

I appreciate the suggestion however there is a reason for a truck camper and off-road utility trailer. We own homes in Montana and AZ; we would mainly explore the West. We enjoy photography, fishing, and hiking. The truck and trailer allow for reasonable clearance, the ability to search off-road areas, while the camper provides reasonable comfort in far away places.

I am assuming my weak links are the suspension or the axles and maybe even the OEM wheels. Not much I can do about the tires and it seems they provide ample capacity. In building my spreadsheet, I am approaching 3600# pretty quickly. I can see it is almost impossible to stay below a trucks rated capacity so I assume many are digging into safety factors. Further, I am not sure how to calculate the truck loads (camper, truck assy/weights outside of trailer) versus the trailer itself. The trailer has a load capacity of 2000# however I would stay well below that. With a stamped/certified capacity of 3180# I am fairly certain I will require upgrades, the question is what and where.

BTW: I own a built Jeep. The idea of upgrading the suspension and drivetrain does not scare me. I am sure the frame in the 2500HD is the same whether diesel or gas; this leads me to believe upgrades are the answer w/o considering the transmission or frame.

 

[pappi49]

Quite possibly I am not understanding this correctly. What I am readiing is that you want to modify your current truck to be able to increase your payload, is that correct?

Just so you understand, there is no inexpensive legal way to increase the payload of a vehicle beyond what is on the sticker. I am not even sure that it can be done at all short of buyiing a new truck. If you want to have a payload of 4000 lbs. you will probably have to upgrade to a larger truck. Probably a 4500 or possibly a stripped 3500/350 dually. If I have completely misunderstood your intent, please disregard this post.

 

[DutchmenSport]

According to your figures above, your payload on this truck is 3760. The dry weight of the camper is 2800. Based on the trailer weight, (if only) 10% of the weight is on the tongue, that weight is 77 pounds.

Take 3760, subtract 77 and 2800 and that leaves only 883 pounds remaining.

Now add your propane and the weight of the propane tank, water, people, supplies, equipment, trailer hitch, your additional air bags, any other items you are planning on adding for better stability, and everything else, and I think you have more than maxed out the remaining payload capacity for this truck.

Take an overloaded truck off the paved roads, and as horrible as interstates are across the country, the suspension on your truck is doomed for failure. Yes, the truck can pull all the weight, but it won't be able to carry it.

Sorry dude.... you are biting off more than your truck can chew. Your truck can comfortably handle a nice toy hauler bumper pull trailer.

Another option is to get a longer utility trailer where you could sit the camper on it, and still have available trailer length that could be used for additional items. Maybe something similar to what this person did, only a longer trailer:

 

[Domo]

Maybe load the toys onto the truck and pull a travel trailer instead of the other way around? You can put racks on a truck for a second layer of kayaks, bikes and inflatables.

Hopefully the toy weights won't kill your Gross...

Oh, yeah, if you're beefing up - don't forget your brakes need to stop it.

 

[DutchmenSport]

OldAZMTGuy,​

Just an FYI, I "retired" on January 14, 2022. That was my last day to receive a pay check. I will say, the last 12 months have been the best year of my life! I had everything in place about 4 months before the "big and final day." Social security was set up, Medicare and supplemental insurances all set up. Everything was paid in full. The house was deeded over to our son. And both my wife and I had pre-paid and pre-arranged all our funeral expenses so the kids would never have to deal with any of that. We did make some really creative financial decisions to get ourselves completely out of debt and then I had 2 years after that to continue working.

When the "big day" finally came, financially everything was done, in place, and working. No dependency on my prior job any more.

Just a couple months ago, I made the hard decision to completely wipe out my 401K and take the 100% cash option. Over the course of this last year, I lost more value in the last 10 months than I contributed over the last 5 years. I said, enough is enough, so cashed it completely out. (another tough decision). I put the money into a regular saving account drawing a minimal INTEREST which is by far better than loosing thousands over the course of a few short months.

Anyway, you have approximately 4 months before your "big day!" Congrats. And right now is the time to make sure everything is in order. If you have not done so yet, do not wait until then. Get it done, get everything in place, get everything operational before that day.

I was drawing my Social payments 3 months before my big day. I waited to start drawing Social Security so I could continue to work and make as much as I want without penalty or having to watch how much I made if I started earlier than that date.

I had Medicare A set up a year ahead (no charge for that and I still carried my company sponsored insurance). I enrolled for Part B and Supplimentals that started in January 2022. I planned it this way, so (IF) is decided to delay retirement and continue working, I would not have to depend on company sponsored insurance any more. In other words, if I wanted to continue working I could. If I wanted to walk at any time, I could tell them to take this job and shove it. I had no dependency on them any more.

As it turned out ... on December 27, 2021, I decided to tell them to take the job and shove it after they begged and pleaded with me to not leave, and I did hang on until the middle of January. But enough was enough!

The next year of my life has been awesome.

Anyway.... get all your "poop" together before the big day! It makes the "big day" even sweeter!

 

[CharlesinGA]

While many truck/camper combinations are operated over weight, do not expect GM, the dealer or any responsible party to provide you with any information that might aid you in operating the vehicle over weight.

An example is the Youtubers Runaway Roses, who sold their Bigfoot trailer (I bought it) and they had already acquired a pretty nice fixer upper Northern Lite. Since they made the move to a truck camper, I think they are on their fourth camper and at least their third truck.

I have an old (tomorrow will be 20 years since it was built) RAM 2500 with a Cummins. It is the lightest possible model of the diesel RAM, and while I keep looking at truck campers, the weights scare me away. Your truck carries measurably more than my old truck, however it is still limited.

If you intend to tow a trailer to haul gear in, look into a TorkLift Super hitch which will allow you to use a Supertruss to support the extended ball carrier.

I am baffled at you having bought a 2500 truck and then spend as much, if not more money, attempting to "convert" it into a 3500 or better.

Charles

 

[OldAZMTGuy]

OldAZMTGuy,​

Just an FYI, I "retired" on January 14, 2022. That was my last day to receive a pay check. I will say, the last 12 months have been the best year of my life! I had everything in place about 4 months before the "big and final day." Social security was set up, Medicare and supplemental insurances all set up. Everything was paid in full. The house was deeded over to our son. And both my wife and I had pre-paid and pre-arranged all our funeral expenses so the kids would never have to deal with any of that. We did make some really creative financial decisions to get ourselves completely out of debt and then I had 2 years after that to continue working.

When the "big day" finally came, financially everything was done, in place, and working. No dependency on my prior job any more.

Just a couple months ago, I made the hard decision to completely wipe out my 401K and take the 100% cash option. Over the course of this last year, I lost more value in the last 10 months than I contributed over the last 5 years. I said, enough is enough, so cashed it completely out. (another tough decision). I put the money into a regular saving account drawing a minimal INTEREST which is by far better than loosing thousands over the course of a few short months.

Anyway, you have approximately 4 months before your "big day!" Congrats. And right now is the time to make sure everything is in order. If you have not done so yet, do not wait until then. Get it done, get everything in place, get everything operational before that day.

I was drawing my Social payments 3 months before my big day. I waited to start drawing Social Security so I could continue to work and make as much as I want without penalty or having to watch how much I made if I started earlier than that date.

I had Medicare A set up a year ahead (no charge for that and I still carried my company sponsored insurance). I enrolled for Part B and Supplimentals that started in January 2022. I planned it this way, so (IF) is decided to delay retirement and continue working, I would not have to depend on company sponsored insurance any more. In other words, if I wanted to continue working I could. If I wanted to walk at any time, I could tell them to take this job and shove it. I had no dependency on them any more.

As it turned out ... on December 27, 2021, I decided to tell them to take the job and shove it after they begged and pleaded with me to not leave, and I did hang on until the middle of January. But enough was enough!

The next year of my life has been awesome.

Anyway.... get all your "poop" together before the big day! It makes the "big day" even sweeter!

Congrats on your retirement and thanks for the feedback.

 

[OldAZMTGuy]

Thanks for all the comments. I am looking into alternatives of lighter weight however, no matter what, I will add some upgrades keen to retain the ride quality.

 

[Kirk]

With a stamped/certified capacity of 3180# I am fairly certain I will require upgrades, the question is what and where.

There is nothing that can be done reasonably to increase the GVWR of your truck. That is based on things that include the brakes, suspension, springs, axles and bearings, and a long list of other things. Overloaded tow vehicles are one of the more common causes of serious accidents.

 

[onall4szj]

There is nothing that can be done reasonably to increase the GVWR of your truck. That is based on things that include the brakes, suspension, springs, axles and bearings, and a long list of other things. Overloaded tow vehicles are one of the more common causes of serious accidents.

Except the "official" capacity is given once the test vehicles do a standardized route evaluating all those things. The end result of all the engineering compromises and making vehicles more eco and driver friendly is that its not optimized for performance or towing.
So if you add bigger brakes, HD springs, better cooling, etc, then that would most certainly effect the end results if the vehicle was tested again.

Case in point. Take a diesel gladiator like mine. Which runs 13.7" rotors vs 05+ SD60 which runs the same 13.7" rotors. You telling me a Gladiator has more stopping power than a f250? difference is weight and length of frame. Nothing we can do about the frame, but we can increase tire patch and weight.

My Gladiator didnt come with an exhaust brake, but with tuning you can add it. that increases braking effeminacy which would definitely effect the outcome of the capacity test.

I had the GVWR of my Kenworth changed later by adding an axle. They specifically leave blank spaces for this.

 

[longhaul]

You have the truck so drop be a set of CAT scales and weigh your trucks front and rear axle separately. That way you know how much load you can add. Truck campers place very little if any weight on a trucks front axle as the trucks rear axle is carrying most if not all the load from stuff in the bed and weight on the trucks rear bumper.
Some points...
Your GM std truck bed is 6' 6" long...not 8'.

Your 2500 GM has the AAM 11.5" rear axle assy good for just over 10000 lbs. GM derates the big axle to a 6200 or 6600 lb rawr on 2500 trucks. Drivers side door door placard shows your trucks RAWR....which is the lessor of wheels/tires/rear spring pack so increase tire capacity requires increasing wheels and rear spring pack.for carrying more load.

Even the 3500 srw with its higher rated 7250 rawr can't carry 4000 lbs in the bed without serious mods.

Agree with opinion of once the truck is loaded get the truck rear axle weighed and then make the decision how to safely mod the truck.

Know your axle weights....empty and loaded.

 

[TheBar]

Truck campers aren't what they used to be. 50 years ago most didn't have A/C and all the other amenities they have today. They are now building heavy campers no truck can safely haul and the center of gravity is off. If you buy one now you'll need to buy a stripped model without all the creature comforts.

 

[touchracing]

Probably not the advice you want to hear but please consider it. You will be time and money ahead if you sell/trade your current truck for one with a higher weight rating. Please don’t be the “should be good” guy with a broken frame.

 

[Kevinn_63]

Happy New Year!

I am counting the days towards retirement set for April 2023. My wife and I have a dream of travelling the US in our 2022 GMC 2500HD (gas std bed, crew cab), Northern Lite 8-11 camper, and smaller trailer for excess supplies (Manley MORV off-road utility trailer). I purchased the truck last August and have not yet purchased the camper nor trailer. The truck is a single axle gas engine but loaded including infrastructure for 5th wheel.

My questions surround handling on and off road including roll, sway, ect I may encounter travelling through the Northwest and East all the way to FLA through TX or TN. I have read a few articles suggesting upgrades such as sway bars, bump stops, helper spring, and airbags. In my research, I found Hellwig airbags are not available for my truck. I also found most all article suggested I test the entire rig before adding upgrades. I want to retain or improve ride when camper is not installed. The trailer is 775# unloaded while the camper is listed at a dry weight of 2800 pounds. The truck is rated at 24K GCWR and max payload at 3760#.

Does anyone own a similar set-up and any comments suggestions in terms of upgrades. I really like the idea of airbags as it seems I can revert back to OEM thus retaining OEM ride quality.

Thank you!

gra

Happy New Year!

I am counting the days towards retirement set for April 2023. My wife and I have a dream of travelling the US in our 2022 GMC 2500HD (gas std bed, crew cab), Northern Lite 8-11 camper, and smaller trailer for excess supplies (Manley MORV off-road utility trailer). I purchased the truck last August and have not yet purchased the camper nor trailer. The truck is a single axle gas engine but loaded including infrastructure for 5th wheel.

My questions surround handling on and off road including roll, sway, ect I may encounter travelling through the Northwest and East all the way to FLA through TX or TN. I have read a few articles suggesting upgrades such as sway bars, bump stops, helper spring, and airbags. In my research, I found Hellwig airbags are not available for my truck. I also found most all article suggested I test the entire rig before adding upgrades. I want to retain or improve ride when camper is not installed. The trailer is 775# unloaded while the camper is listed at a dry weight of 2800 pounds. The truck is rated at 24K GCWR and max payload at 3760#.

Does anyone own a similar set-up and any comments suggestions in terms of upgrades. I really like the idea of airbags as it seems I can revert back to OEM thus retaining OEM ride quality.

Thank you!

Congrats on surviving a career and retiring next month! I am retiring in one year and can't think of anything else. I can only imagine what it's like with one more month.

As others have said, you might want to look at lighter TC's as a 3/4 ton is really challenged by a TC. Think it through. Payload capacity is calculated and stated for a reason. If the OEM knew the truck could carry more weight i have to think they would claim it as it would help sell more trucks. Your call. Enjoy your adventures and this window of opportunity. Kevin