more info --- 2 hours later after being plugged into 120v i now I have a 0v to small terminal on the 120-901 white rodgers relay (the one the relay coil lead from the bird is hooked to) and the one to the right is still .01V.. i checked them both 10 times just now and its right. i get 12.88 on the top contact and 12.20 on the bottom which is the charge on the chassis battery (which is where the positive cable is hooked up from the chassis battery) now on the disconnect switch in the BCC the left side is 12.75 and the right side is 12.88v.. The left side is where the coach battery positive cable is hooked too and also is the charge voltage on the coach batteries... Not sure if leaving the 120v on for the length of time caused the zero volt reading at the relay coil lead from the B.I.R.D..... Can you make any sense of this??????
rv interior light work on AC not DC. Coach batteries not charging.
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20 minutes later i just went out and tried to turn the use switch to store while being plugged into 120v and would not disconnect i tried it about 6 times. So still being the USE mode showing 13.2V i went back out and ck voltage... Now i have voltage again to the relay coil lead from the bird to the white rodgers small terminal on the left it measures 12.33.. rest of voltages are the same except right side of disconnect switch now reads 12.97V.... I will leave 120 on all night. The coach batteries are now reading 12.69V but chassis is 12.24...... Hope you understand what might be happening because i dont........... see 2 previous post....
Lou Schneider
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When you have 12 volts across the small terminals of the black relays (12 volts on one terminal, 0 volts on the other) the relay should be energized and connecting one of the large terminals to the other.
With the relay energized you should see IDENTICAL voltages on each of the large terminals. If the voltages are not identical, the relay is not making contact between the large terminals.
If the relay's not making contact with 12 volts between the small terminals, it's defective.
With the relay energized you should see IDENTICAL voltages on each of the large terminals. If the voltages are not identical, the relay is not making contact between the large terminals.
If the relay's not making contact with 12 volts between the small terminals, it's defective.
acramer said:
As I stated in my last post, and as Lou Schneider so eloquently restated, the white rogers solenoid should close, bridging the two battery banks together (providing EXACTLY the same voltage on both large terminals) when 12 vdc is applied to the small terminal.
Let's reestablish our understanding of just where you are measuring voltage(s)
Where exactly do you read the 13.2 volts when plugged in? What terminal in photo #2?
Do you read EXACTLY the same voltage on both large terminals of the DISCONNECT solenoid (the one with the white paper label on it)?
What voltage do you read on the terminal (on the BIRD) labeled "Coach Battery"?
I think we have just about established that the isolation solenoid (also know as the aux start/charge solenoid) is defective, but there is still a problem somewhere in the circuitry preventing the converter voltage (the 13.2v) from reaching the BCC.
just got back.... Point 1 --- The 13.12 is a digital readout from my monitoring panel inside the coach above the door. Right above the use store switch. Point 2a ---No -- on the left side of the disconnect switch (where the coach battery positive cable is hooked) is the same reading as the coach batteries read 12.61.. On the right side to the disconnect switch is 13.05. Point 2b. the coach battery from the BIRD reads 13.05.. The 2 large terminal on the White Rodgers top one reads 13.05 bottom one read 12.33 this is the same reading as the chassis battery reads also the positive cable from chassis is hooked to the bottom large terminal. One of my previous pts yesterday I said the reading on the small terminal on white rogers isolation relay the one the TO relay terminal from the BIRD read 0V for 10 reads then i tried to use the store switch inside coach 6 time to disconnect and it wouldnt disconnect (otherwise the digital readout in coach would not go down to zero and disappear).. I then checked the small left terminal on the isolation white rodgers relay and now i had a reading again like 12.XX. Should i start by changing it White Rodgers relay?
At this point, I'm believing that both solenoids are defective.
One thing bothers me a little, and that's the presence of all those blue wires and indicating fuses. I don't think that is original wiring, and therefore, a possible source of wiring errors. However, nothing seems to be out of place in the BCC.
The DISCONNECT solenoid needs to close and pass the 13V+ voltage from the converter to the coach battery. It appears to NOT be doing that. You could temporarily put a large jumper wire across the large terminals (or move the large cables to the same large terminal) to test the result.
The ISOLATION (aux start/charge) solenoid must likewise close to connect the chassis and coach batteries together so that they will BOTH charge from the converter. The same technique (large jumper or all wires on a common terminal) would test that process.
NOTE: The first priority is to fix the disconnect solenoid problem. We have not established whether the switch (on the wall by the door) or the solenoid is the problem yet.
We also, have not investigated what charges, and what doesn't charge, from the engine alternator. This will have to be done to conclusively pin down the failing component(s).
I have a headache
One thing bothers me a little, and that's the presence of all those blue wires and indicating fuses. I don't think that is original wiring, and therefore, a possible source of wiring errors. However, nothing seems to be out of place in the BCC.
The DISCONNECT solenoid needs to close and pass the 13V+ voltage from the converter to the coach battery. It appears to NOT be doing that. You could temporarily put a large jumper wire across the large terminals (or move the large cables to the same large terminal) to test the result.
The ISOLATION (aux start/charge) solenoid must likewise close to connect the chassis and coach batteries together so that they will BOTH charge from the converter. The same technique (large jumper or all wires on a common terminal) would test that process.
NOTE: The first priority is to fix the disconnect solenoid problem. We have not established whether the switch (on the wall by the door) or the solenoid is the problem yet.
We also, have not investigated what charges, and what doesn't charge, from the engine alternator. This will have to be done to conclusively pin down the failing component(s).
I have a headache
I know things seem very strange to me right now.. Dont forget right now im probably at the point my motor home been at before i didnt have 12v lights inside. because i do have lights now when not plugged in but i think ive had some type of charging problem for a long time. I thought i was discharging my chassis batteries and didnt have a problem wtih the coach batteries charging until i didnt have 12v lights. I really didnt do anything about the charging problem until i didnt have 12volt lights inside.. As far as additions to the BCC. If so Newmar would have had to do it because i bought motor home brand new in 1995 and i sure didnt do any changes to the BCC. No one else could either... One of those blue wires you talked about or blue box with a fuse is for battery boost.. That has never worked in this motor home. back to your battery disconnect..... Are you saying to try and test the battery disconnect to take the positive large red coach battery cable and put it on the other side of the disconnect switch? and then same with White rodgers solenoid take the positive large red cable from the chassis battery and move it to the top position or the top large terminal of the White Rodgers solenoid? one at a time. and then test voltages after each change? Will that affect the other wires that are attached to the terminal that had the large red positive cable from the coach and chassis battery ??? I was thinking all those now would not have any voltages going to them now...When the engine is running the alternator charges chassis batteries (reads over 14 after a few minutes running) but not the coach batteries... Also i think the generator does the same but i havent tried the generator since i got 12v lights again... Havent done any testing from the inside disconnect switch.. I said last update interior disc switch read 13.12v i meant 13.2v.. only had a 3 digit read out.
You understand my thinking correctly on moving the large wires to connect them to the opposite large terminal on the disconnect solenoid. Mark all the wires (large and small, so you can return them to their proper spot) and then move them all to the other side.
The coach battery should now charge when plugged into 120 or with the generator. The generator and the 120 use the same circuit path to energize the converter, so you are effectively testing that also.
You should have solid interior lights and all 12V appliances should work from the batteries or plugin power.
CAUTION: Physically disconnect the coach battery negative (ground) lead from the battery before performing this procedure. RE-connect it after the wires are moved.
The coach battery should now charge when plugged into 120 or with the generator. The generator and the 120 use the same circuit path to energize the converter, so you are effectively testing that also.
You should have solid interior lights and all 12V appliances should work from the batteries or plugin power.
CAUTION: Physically disconnect the coach battery negative (ground) lead from the battery before performing this procedure. RE-connect it after the wires are moved.
One more time before i do this..... First disconnect my power both 120v and 12v power sources. Then You want me to take ALL wires off left side of disconnect switch and put them on right side of switch?..... then take All wires off bottom large terminal of White Rodgers solenoid relay and put them on the top of large terminal. Marking all wires so i can put them back to the appropiated terminal later. Then connect all my power 12v and 120v back up and test it??? Or do you want me to do just the disconnect switch first and try it. or just the White Rodgers solenoid and try it? I hope i have enough room for the terminals to hold the additional 3 or 4 wires or cables... Under your caution statement at the end you didnt say anything about disconnecting the chassis battery -- was that an oversite? because the chassis battery red + cable i will be moving from the bottom large terminal of the White Rodgers Solenoid to the top large terminal...
I only addressed the disconnect solenoid in my last post because i assumed you would be more comfortable just doing one at a time.
Yes, you might take the caution to disconnect the chassis battery when working with the isolation (White Rogers) solenoid.
Remember your objectives with each one.
After moving the connections of the DISCONNECT solenoid observe that your coach batteries are being charged from the converter. If successful, leave the modifications on until you finish testing the isolation solenoid also.
After moving the connections of the ISOLATION solenoid observe that both the coach and chassis batteries are being charged.
If it were me, I would leave the modifications in place until I identified and replaced the defective solenoids or components.
Yes, you might take the caution to disconnect the chassis battery when working with the isolation (White Rogers) solenoid.
Remember your objectives with each one.
After moving the connections of the DISCONNECT solenoid observe that your coach batteries are being charged from the converter. If successful, leave the modifications on until you finish testing the isolation solenoid also.
After moving the connections of the ISOLATION solenoid observe that both the coach and chassis batteries are being charged.
If it were me, I would leave the modifications in place until I identified and replaced the defective solenoids or components.
OK ---- First disconnect every power source. Then moved all 4 wires from left side of disconnect to right side (before i started just ck the voltage of the coach batteries ---- 12.61). Then connected everything back up... The disconnect panel inside was reading 12.9... The right side of the disconnect switch (that i moved the wires) was reading 12.88. The top post of the white rodgers isolation relay was reading 12.88. The coach batteries were reading around 12.82. Im pretty sue the bottom large terminal was reading the same voltage as the chassis batteries. I then disconnect every power source again and moved the bottom 4 wires to top large terminal on the isolation relay and connected everything back up and i got the same reading on everything around 12.72. The disconnect panel inside motor home was changing between 12.9 and 13.0. I will leave the 120v on to the motor home for awhile to see what voltage changes (if any). Right now its parked in front of house. I have a storage area about 3 miles away... Also my 120v connection is only on 20amp hook up in the garage...
turned off 120 and started engine and now i get 14.00 volts to both chassis and coach batteries... but then shut of engine and tryed generator... I get nothing will not start up or nothing... I havent tried it in a couple of weeks but the last time i did it worked ok.....
Now you can read the previous 3 plus this... I think the generator wires were hooked up the bottom isolator relay.. I just looked at it and there is a metal bar hooked to and go to the back of the relay.. I didnt see those.. about 2 little wires and a positive red battery cable hooked up to that and as i said in last update no voltage on that bottom large terminal..
acramer said:
You are probably correct in that the generator start cable is hooked to the bottom terminal. I think you have proven conclusively that the White Rogers Isolation solenoid is defective. I would replace it. As previously stated the generator doesn't really need to be tested (in solving this charge problem) as it shares the same path with the 120vac to power the converter. Once one is fixed, they will both be fixed.
The results of the wire moves on the disconnect solenoid are somewhat confusing, since the converter voltage is apparently NOT reaching the BCC, but it's for certain that the output of your converter is not reaching the disconnect solenoid and/or your coach batteries.
You need to locate the wires between the converter and the BCC and determine if any fuses or DC circuit breakers are tripped. A check for the proper voltage will need to be made from end to end on those wires.
Can you identify (in the pictures you posted) which wires are from the converter?
everything now reads right near 13.0 or 12.9.. the top right 4 red wires from right to left (the first one had a red end the other 3 have yellow ends and the fifth one is ignition in picture 2 coming in are --- house fuse -- step fuse -- chassis fuse -- chassis relay...ign --- There is only one other wire with the generator it is for the tag axle.... The way we have it hooked now is there anything that keeps the batteries now from overcharging???? Also i thought the converter went to disconnect panel switch then to the BCC.... If that is so i can take that apart and see the wires from that... There is nothing else other than very thin wires. there is one little bit bigger black wire coming in from the bottom hooked to the right side of the little terminals on the White Rodgers isolation relay..
just opened the inside panel disconnect intellitec switch and there is a 5 wire harness coming out of that going into the BCC - colors in order are brown red white green and black in picture 2 the brown wire is hooked to the small terminal right side of Disconnect switch -- the white wire is hooked to right small terminal of Disc switch in BCC. the black wire is hooked to right side of White Rodgers isolation relay small terminal.. the red and green wires are behind the disc. switch and i cant see what they are hooked to unless i take the disc switch out......
see previous 2 post... maybe its the other way around the BCC goes to the disc panel inside and in that case i think if you look at the fuse picture -- picture 1 the bottom of picture that fuse left side goes up to 2 black wires.... I think those 2 are the same 2 that come out of the converter... so the other end of the fuse on the bottom must go to the BCC and i think it is the top wire Labeled house fuse as your looking at picture 2 the top right most wire with a red end -- 4 yellow end wires on it left.
Did you print THIS document that I pointed you too? There is a photo in there that will show you what those different colored wires go to.
NOTE: the disconnect solenoid is constructed differently than the White rogers solenoid. The WR solenoid must have voltage on one of the small terminals continuously to keep it energized.
The disconnect solenoid receives voltage on the BROWN wire to energize (and latch) the solenoid when the interior switch is pressed in one dirrection. The solenoid stays closed (latched) until it is unlatched by pressing the interior switch in the opposite direction, which places voltage on the white wire to unlatch the solenoid.
The green wire if an indicator LED (optional)
Red is connected to the solenoid (large battery terminal)
Black is ground.
Study those diagrams, in the document, and read the troubleshooting procedures. They should help.
Converter voltage must be reaching the BCC now if the large terminals are reading 13 (or near 13) volts.
HOWEVER, the BIRD circuit will need at least 13.2v to work as it is designed to work, and your batteries would need a higher voltage to completely charge.
Leave everything plugged to 120vac for a few days if possible, then check all points again.
NOTE: the disconnect solenoid is constructed differently than the White rogers solenoid. The WR solenoid must have voltage on one of the small terminals continuously to keep it energized.
The disconnect solenoid receives voltage on the BROWN wire to energize (and latch) the solenoid when the interior switch is pressed in one dirrection. The solenoid stays closed (latched) until it is unlatched by pressing the interior switch in the opposite direction, which places voltage on the white wire to unlatch the solenoid.
The green wire if an indicator LED (optional)
Red is connected to the solenoid (large battery terminal)
Black is ground.
Study those diagrams, in the document, and read the troubleshooting procedures. They should help.
Converter voltage must be reaching the BCC now if the large terminals are reading 13 (or near 13) volts.
HOWEVER, the BIRD circuit will need at least 13.2v to work as it is designed to work, and your batteries would need a higher voltage to completely charge.
Leave everything plugged to 120vac for a few days if possible, then check all points again.
