Self Contained Outlet questions

[blw2]

My RV has these mobile home style self contained outlets
no box, just a snap together thing with spring contacts that grab through the conductor insulation.
It's a pass & seymour

I'm assuming these are common with RV's but this is my 1st experience with them.

I'm wanting to add an outlet down stream of an existing outlet.
The existing outlet is in a location with maybe 1-1/2in or so cavity, so not likely room for a box

It looks like this outlet could handle two conductors so that I could add a circuit fed from this outlet, but I'm not sure.

I have searched with google and cannot find a data sheet or info about them.

The existing outlet isn't in a high use location, and my new outlet is not intended for high load either.... but I don't want to cause a potential future problem either.

I'm very comfortable with electrical work, I just haven't seen this type of outlet before and don't know what it's rated for.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The slot configuration tells you the rating - the standard household outlet (two parallel slots + a ground pin) is a 15A rated receptacle. Wiring through a receptacle is OK, but the circuit max is still 15A.

 

[blw2]

but can I land another set of conductors into the contacts?

 

[Alfa38User]

Usually!! There will probably be two sets of holes where you plunge in the wires if you can daisy chain it to the next socket. The other sockets in the motor home are chained that way so..... But you will have to add it to the last socket in the existing  chain to do that, unless you use a junction box.

 

[John From Detroit]

Let me say this:  First: you are correct in all your assumptions

Second: My opinion of these "Quick Box" outlets is not very high.. In fact it is very low.

You can get a shallow outlet and box that might just work,, Much better
but you are still down line from one of the el-crapo quick boxes.

Ok, they are ok for small loads.> Computers, TVs Radios, Shavers.. But when you try to run space heaters... That's when they can give you issues (Think 1,200 watts and above)  Thankfully this means most kitchen stuff is OK with them.  But I've had one fail on a space heater and so have others both here and in other forums.

This is why I have two 15/20 amp outlets in my Rig (3 actually but on is.. Different, for one thing it is a single outlet not a duplex) all box mounted, all fed with 12 ga wire wrapped around a screw all have their own breaker dedicated just to that outlet.. They run space heaters.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Mine are a different brand than yours, I think, but they are quite sturdy and have two sets of slots for the fires, so that the circuit can easily be daisy chained. The wires are stripped on mine so that the teeth in the slots engage the copper directly. Removing a wire once pressed into place is a major task!

 

[bucks2]

have two sets of slots for the fires,

Let's hope that's not Freudian.

Ken

 

[SeilerBird]

Removing a wire once pressed into place is a major task!

Actually it is fairly easy once you know the trick. Grab hold of the outlet (with the power shut off, of course) and rock your hand back and forth about 45 degrees while pulling slightly towards you. They will usually pop right out.

 

[catblaster]

I have used these in the shallow walls. It's still tight but gives enough room for connections and pass through. Did not buy them here but got the picture.

http://www.deepsurplus.com/HOME/Electrical/1-1-2-Deep-Single-Gang-Plastic-Offset-Switch-Box-for-1-4-or-3-8-drywall-and-paneling-_2

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

As Will says, shallow wall boxes are available most places where electrical fittings are sold. Don't have much room for wires, but can still handle a standard outlet or switch and provide an alternative to the self-contained types.

 

[blw2]

OP here with an update
I actually considered using a shallow box with standard outlet, but there wasn't enough slack romex to pull into a box!

Even though I couldn't find the wire size spec, I found enough evidence to suggest that these things are intended for mid circuit install, so I landed a romex in it to run to my new outlet.

verified the voltage drop at 15 amps through both outlets and it's very high, but no higher than it was from the factory..... around 14.5% according to my suretest analyzer.

 

[Alfa38User]

verified the voltage drop at 15 amps through both outlets and it's very high.....

On Edit:

Opps... I think I get it now, you measured the voltage while drawing 15 amps through a load in the analyzer and that amounted to 103 V perhaps?? Yes is is low, don't plug in any motors!!! Not sure it is significant though and is dependant on the voltage source available (120V, 110V etc).

Voltage drop?? Voltage drop is measured in volts normally. I would expect no "voltage drop" and full amperage (15 amps) available unless the wire run is very long or the wiring under-sized. No sure what your analyzer is telling you in % though. But, of course, what you can draw before the breaker pops is dependant on what else is powered up  on that chain .

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Voltage drop is largely determined by the wire gauge used, not the type or number of outlets. Is this 14 gauge wire?  14% seems high! If you should happen to be on a 110v source, the voltage at the end would be dangerously low.

 

[blw2]

Yes, 14 gauge

The analyzer applies a load and displays drop as a percentage, based on the measured no load voltage, Selectable for drops at 15A, 20A and 12A
According to the reference card that came with the unit, "expected result" which is based on something in the NEC I believe, is <5%

Several outlets in my 2007 vintage sticks and bricks measures greater than 5%, so I'm not overly concerned.  Not happy, but not concerned too bad.  14% though, I'm none too happy about... but I don't foresee these outlets seeing more than 1-2A most all of the time..... perhaps 7-10 amps on rare occasion to run a small vacuum or something.....

 

[eaglestar]

Voltage drop is largely determined by the wire gauge used, not the type or number of outlets.

Voltage drop is a function of the total resistance in the circuit. This includes wire gauge (smaller number, larger wire, less resistance) and resistance through daisy chained outlets. Stab or press type connections are inherently high resistance because of the extremely small surface area of the connection (typically little more than a knife edge). If this type of connection is used for pass through, the voltage drop is significantly more than that of the wiring itself. More outlets in the chain = more voltage lost.

The real impact of voltage drop is that conservation of energy (energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed) dictates that the electrical energy must be preserved in some other form, typically heat. In a 120VAC system, that heat can be significant - it's a leading cause of house fires.

Don't use that boxless outlet for a pass through. You are literally playing with fire. I only use screw terminals, never stabs or insulation displacement (press-in) for current carrying connections. I've seen too many almost fires. If you need another outlet, find another way to wire it in. Your rig and the lives of yourself, family and friends could depend on it.

Ray

 

[Lou Schneider]

Unfortunately, RV makers use those all in one outlets as pass throughs all the time.  It's one reason I added a 20 amp outlet on a dedicated circuit for my electric heater.

More important than total voltage drop is the amount of heat being generated at the point connections at each outlet.

Plug a load into the far outlet for several minutes, then feel the temperature of each outlet in the daisy chain leading to it.

If you feel any warmth at all, you have a high resistance connection at that outlet, which will only get worse over time and become a fire hazard.