Sway Problems With TT, Suburban as TV

[GMommy]

We have an 05 Suburban and an 07 Coachman Captiva, and they don't work well together.  When we pull we can't safely go over 45 mph without the trailer pushing the TV all over the road.  We have a weight distribution hitch and a friction sway but it doesn't help.  The dealer wants to put an equalizer hitch on but I'm skeptical that this will fix the problem.  The suburban has a wheelbase of 130" and the TT is 33 feet long.  Any suggestions?  Is anyone pulling something that long with a suburban.  I found a chart with suggested trailer lengths to go with the wheelbase on the TV but our dealer never mentioned it when we bought the TT.  I'm not sure if going with a smaller more aerodynamic trailer would fix our problem.  The axels are not placed well on the TT,in the center instead of 2/3 of the way back, but that can't be changed.  Has anyone found that the equalizer hitch didn't fix their problems.  We almost put the TV and TT off the road once when the trailer started to sway.  I want to trade in the TT but we only bought it 7 months ago and are going to lose a ton of money, but safety is number one!!  Right now we are paying for the trailer and not using it because we can't safely control it.

I would love any input from people who are towing TT's, the dealers will tell you anything to get you to buy.  Our main decision now is can we safely fix what we have or is the only safe option to go with another trailer.

 

[Ron]

First thing is to check to confirm you are withing your weight limits.  If you are exceeding the GVWR, GCVWR, or hitch weight then you need to either get a different tow vehicle or a smaller trailer.  Use the trailer GVWR when calculating not the trailer empty weight.  IF, and that is a big IF, you are in your weight limits then an equalizer hitch may help.

 

[Carl L]

The very first thing you need to do is weigh your rig and determine its hitch weight.   That hitch weight should be at least 10% of the trailer weight.   Less than that you will need to add weight in front of your axles -- or subtract it behind them.  How you do that depends on the layout of your unit.  First thing is to weigh it.

A friction bar unit is a bit Mickey Mouse for a 33 foot trailer.   Either an Equalizer or a Reese Dual Cam would be a significant improvement.   For a 33 footer with problems, I would recommend a Hensley Arrow, very pricey but maybe what you need.

A Suburban is not that great a tow vehicle --- and ain't that heresy.  :  A 1500 with the 5.3L  has a tow rating of 8400 lbs.  A 2500 with the 6.0L rates at 9700 lbs.  Only if you have a 2500 with the 8.1 L would it rate atl 12,000 lbs.   The maximum trailer GVWR that you should haul would be 90% of those numbers.   If you tow out west make that 80%.  Subtract 400 lbs if you have 4WD.

So weigh your trailer and determine the hitch weight.   If that passes muster get a hitch system with better sway control unless you have a 1500 with the 5.3L engine and then you need to do some serious thinking about your tow vehicle.

 

[GMommy]

The vechile is a 1500 with a 5.3L engine, our tow limit is 7200.  The empty weight of the trailer is 5500 lbs and the hitch weight is 700 lbs.  I have read a few posts that talk about the tail wagging the dog, that is exactly what it feels like in the TV.  Our biggest question is still can our TV handle that long of a trailer or is it better to get a shorter trailer with a lower profile and a better hitch.  Will a better hitch alone make the trailer safe to pull with our children in the TV?

 

[Carl L]

The vechile is a 1500 with a 5.3L engine, our tow limit is 7200.  The empty weight of the trailer is 5500 lbs and the hitch weight is 700 lbs.  I have read a few posts that talk about the tail wagging the dog, that is exactly what it feels like in the TV.  Our biggest question is still can our TV handle that long of a trailer or is it better to get a shorter trailer with a lower profile and a better hitch.  Will a better hitch alone make the trailer safe to pull with our children in the TV?

OK, that trailer will probably have a GVWR of around 7500 lbs.   It is a submarginal tow for that light 'Burb; yeah I would drop down in trailer size to something with a GVWR of around 6500 lbs.  If you would tow in the mountain or Pacific West, make that GVWR 5800 lbs..

Still get a Reese Dual Cam or Equalizer anti-sway system.   I really do not care for friction bar systems.

 

[Ron]

The vechile is a 1500 with a 5.3L engine, our tow limit is 7200.  The empty weight of the trailer is 5500 lbs and the hitch weight is 700 lbs.  I have read a few posts that talk about the tail wagging the dog, that is exactly what it feels like in the TV.  Our biggest question is still can our TV handle that long of a trailer or is it better to get a shorter trailer with a lower profile and a better hitch.  Will a better hitch alone make the trailer safe to pull with our children in the TV?

The empty weight tells us nothing and means nothing plus is probably way off anyway.  Use only the trailer GVWR when determining weight limits.  I would be surprised if you are even within your tow vehicles weight limits, and that is important.  Only after confirming you are withing weight limits would I suggest trying to improve things.

 

[Mark R.]

I would love any input from people who are towing TT's, the dealers will tell you anything to get you to buy.  Our main decision now is can we safely fix what we have or is the only safe option to go with another trailer.

Well here we go, first that Suburban is plenty of truck to tow your trailer( 6000 pound empty burb  and 130" is fine),more  horsepower and bigger transmissions do not make your tow package safe, it makes it go up hill faster. Controlling what your towing makes it safe, dual cam would help but you can also add a second friction sway control to your existing hitch  for a lot less money (second set of little balls are added to other side of hitch and tongue. But I bet your tires are the root cause of your problem, first your 16 inch tires are most likely rated C or Ds and most people put on a aggressive or open tread pattern tires such as Good Year Wranglers, this type of tire tends to have poor lateral control (sideways load), and the c/d rated tire run low pressure and soft sidewalls. Here is a fix you can live with (literally) and not break the bank, Buy four 'E'  rated highway tires, run up at 80 PSI should be max on sidewall. On my 95 Burb I run Firestone R4S  ( OEM tire on 95) OEMs are not Es mine are, same tire used on one ton pickups. these tire have a dense tread and stiff side wall, expect 60 to 80 thousand mile from them. I do not know your experience level for towing long trailers, so here is some advice  keep your steering inputs gentle and  slow , when being overtaken by a truck the high pressure air wave in front of his cab will push the back end of your trailer away from him, this will make the front of your tow car to move to the right (assuming he is passing on your left side), it can be unnerving for a new tow car driver, just gently turn left as the truck comes past the trailer the force will go away when he passes your trailers axles  the the force will push on the front of your trailer and this will make the front of you car move to the left, just add a gentle right input. The tires  I mentioned will make this allot less scary and this turning procedure will be come second nature in no time. I have some trailering experience, 217 thousand miles with my 1500 95 burb towing a small fleet of trailers including my 34 foot triple axle Avion (V layout), its heavy and the burb handles it great  . My wife tows our horse trailer with her 99 burb 1500, I made the mistake of putting a set of Wranglers on her  burb for the occasional muddy field with horses in tow. On the NY state Thruway at 60 mph it was a handful to keep the rig in the lane. Back to the R4S Es and problem gone. If you do get new tires , do this first,  with old tires on truck grab hitch ball and pull back and forth to see how much sidewall defection ( side to side motion of burb) you get, then repeat with new tires and you should note a BIG difference, when not towing drop air to about 50 psi for a softer ride. hope this helps good luck!

[edit]Fixed broken quote[/edit]

 

[yellowtruckguy02]

interesting thought about the tires.  being memorial day and all, we just got back from a weekend away.  we traveled 60 miles with our new trailer, which is a zinger zt29db.  my truck is a 2007 gmc 1500 short box.  it is a very windy day today, and when i would get moving down the road, holy cow, it felt like i was floating on air.  i can't say i felt unsafe, but i was being wagged as you say.  i never had that problem with the old trailer.  which was 1500 pounds lighter and probably half the tounge weight.  the truck seems to handle the trailer ok.  i am not going out west or anything like that, just northern michigan, which has some decent hills.  i am sure i am close to all of the weight limits, but not over.

i guess my question is this, will dual cams help the problem?  i have the friction bar set up right now with 1000 pound bars.  a buddy of mine just upgraded to a fifth wheel and he offered me his dual cam setup for cheap.  he had a 34 foot cardinal that was amost 8000 pounds dry. not sure what the loaded weight is or anything.  i don't know much about the dual cam, except that new, it is more expensive and all of that, but will it help?

thanks for the input.

 

[Ron]

First don't guess at weights do a weight limit calculation to insure you ARE withing the weight limits of your TV.  Then look at hitch solutions.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The most common cause of trailer sway or "float" is insufficient tongue weight. Move a couple hundred pounds of weight forward and try it out.

 

[Mark R.]

Yellowtruck  man here is one more option for you, If you have some expendable cash and  factory 15  inch rims and are having handling problems . You could buy 18 or even better 20 inch rims and maintain the same tire circumference  when using a lower profile tire. They look good and handle wonderfully while pulling a trailer in heavy truck traffic and high winds (short stiff sidewall). And buy your buddy's duel cam setup. Feel like you are floating on air?  You are, thats your soft side walls that make the truck ride like a car , 75 and 85 series tires at a max of 41 psi. are soft riders. Just going E's  at 50 psi solo  you will not notice any big difference, at 80 psi towing you will feel like you are in control not the trailer,  going to 20" you will think you are driving a corvette, solo or towing (slow corvette when towing)! Having good tongue weight (10-15% of trailer weight) as mentioned above is a must no matter what you do. Sell the factory rims and tires to offset cost of 20's, Good luck. ;D

 

[Sean Woodruff]

Change your pivot point and you'll change your towing stability.  People who buy 5th wheels know this but it never seems to come up when talking about travel trailer stability.

 

[Carl L]

Change your pivot point and you'll change your towing stability.  People who buy 5th wheels know this but it never seems to come up when talking about travel trailer stability.

I suspect that is because except for the PullRite Hitch, it the pivot point is pretty well fixed at a few inches behind the rear bumper of the trailer.

 

[Sean Woodruff]

I suspect that is because except for the PullRite Hitch, it the pivot point is pretty well fixed at a few inches behind the rear bumper of the trailer.

Yes, the Pull-Rite physically moves the effective pivot point.  The ProPride 3P that I manufacture has an effective pivot point of 55" forward of the ball when a force is applied on the trailer.  Depending on the TV overhang, 55" can actually place the effective pivot point forward of the rear axle.  Sway isn't an issue when the pivot point isn't behind the rear axle creating a lever arm to be acted upon by the weight of the trailer.

 

[Ron]

Bottom line though is first make sure you are within your TV weight limits.  Exceed the weight limits even a pullrite hitch isn't a good solution.

 

[Sean Woodruff]

Bottom line though is first make sure you are within your TV weight limits.  Exceed the weight limits even a pullrite hitch isn't a good solution.

 

Yes, its a good idea to follow the weight limits.  However, a heavy tow vehicle, well within its limits, can mask a swaying trailer to the point that the trailer is out of control and not recoverable by the time the sway is realized.  A heavy tow vehicle provides seat-of-the-pants sway control by not allowing the sway force, applied to the lever arm between hitch ball and the axle, to cause steering inputs from the driver.