Those of you who tow a car hauler (not a tow dolly) - some questions

[DegoRed]

John, great trailer set up.  Just purchase similar set up myself. 

How does your Jeep fit on that Featherlight Trailer?  I was going to buy that same trailer, but I think its only 79" wide if I remember correctly.  I ended up having to go to an all steel trailer that was 83" wide.  My Jeep is exactly 83" wide.  I assume you don't have wheel spacers?  Have not towed mine yet, going for maiden voyage in a couple weeks to Moab.

Notice you did not have a K2 sticker on your Jeep, need to add K2 to your list of places to go crawling.

Ernie, I did similar math that you laid out, and unfortunately, those of use who wheel/crawl our Jeep, there is no way to do so without at trailer.  John laid out some of the issues, but let me expand on them some more in case someone else reads this. 

John is running street tires on his Jeep, albeit Off-Road versions, so he gets a little better wear.  For those of us who run Off-Road only type tires, they just don't last running down the road.  My tires are $524 each, they are so soft.  When I run them on pavement, they get so hot, you can't hardly touch them.  Carrying around two sets of tires is a real PIA.  The other huge factor that John did not lay out, what do you do when you break your Jeep wheeling?  I have broken my Jeep twice now wheeling, without a trailer, she would have never made it home.  You can't buy Off-Road Jeep parts at your local auto parts store or even most Off-Road stores, most parts have to come from the Lift Manufacture.  Have no idea what size gears John has in his Jeep, I run 5.38's in mine, those gears just don't like to run down the highway for long periods of time or high speeds.

If someone has just a regular Jeep or mildly tricked out Jeep, by all means, 4 down is the way to go.  But if you are going to wheel your Jeep, a trailer is the only solution in my mind.

Great thread John, thanks for starting it.

 

[John Canfield]

Hey Dego,

Thanks for the Jeeper's side of the equation!

Yup - 79" between the rails and my 35x12.5 MT/R Kevlars just fit on the trailer.  The Trailready HD Beadlockers have 3.5" of backspacing and I don't need spacers now with the new TR wheels.  I regeared to 4.88 as the very first upgrade to Rubi.  I bought it with 33" tires and a 4" suspension lift and stock gears - yuk!  What a dog!

It will be nice to have a trailer for the Jeep in case we do get breakage - we are doing harder trails now and the potential to break something keeps increasing.

We haven't done K2, in fact we just joined the San Antonio Jeep Exclusive and they are a very active club, so maybe we'll get to run that at some point.

(I just installed GenRight aluminum tube fenders and the GenRight inner fenders.  No more stuffing the 35's into the OEM fenders  .)

 

[Ernie n Tara]

John/DegoRed,

Certainly my analysis wasn't based on a highly modified Jeep, however I don't consider what I do to not be wheelin'.  I just spent three weeks in Moab and I think a fair conclusion is that it requires significant modifications for a TJ (and I have an '06) to compare favorably with my new 2012 JK (blasphemy! right?); several other TJ pwners agreed with me on that point.

My idea of wheelin' is trails like Fins n Things or Poison Spider and they certainly motivated me to make some improvements (primarily a 2.5-inch Teraflex lift), but we got by just fine with the stock vehicle. Perhaps I'm just getting too old, but the really radical stuff no longer appeals to me; to each his own.

That still results in my Jeep, including its fairly aggressive tires, being more practically towed than carried on a trailer in my opinion. I don't suggest that is true for an extensively modified Jeep (I hadn't looked into John's modifications at that point), particularly when you remember the modified Jeep may weigh a couple of thousand lbs. more than stock.

Perhaps a reasonable conclusion is that, at some point, a Jeep intended primarily for the trails is no longer a good candidate to be daily driven and should be trailered.

Ernie

Incidentally, purely "off-road" tires didn't enter into the original discussion. John's tires are  a larger version of mine and it probably costs John in the neighborhood of $3-400 more a set than it does me to replace all five. On that basis, I'd still choose to tow, but that's an individual decision (I don't rotate religiously either, but that's a different discussion).

Tires using a "soft" compound will not only wear on the road, they'll wear and tear up on the trails as well. The trade off between elasticity (grip/wrap around) and ultimate tensile (tear resistance) is direct and not in favor of improved elasticity. I can't fault anyone for using these where they are intended to be used and saving that valuable rubber when traveling.

 

[John Canfield]

Perhaps a reasonable conclusion is that, at some point, a Jeep intended primarily for the trails is no longer a good candidate to be daily driven and should be trailered.

I would not consider our built up Rubicon a good daily driver and it is built to be the best it can be (at this point) for rock crawling.  Stock JKs or JKUs are very trail capable and your example of Fins 'n Things in Moab is a perfect example of where it would be highly successful.  A stock or fairly stock JK (especially the JKUs) would struggle on many trails we've been on, particularly the Chili Challenge.

We've seen many stock and fairly stock JKUs get high centered - they really need 35" tires.

 

[Ernie n Tara]

John,

I certainly wouldn't argue that JKU's aren't helped by 35's. The long wheelbase has a price in that area, particularly on the ledges of Moab. The two door Rubicon also can have issues in this area; thus my lift. I don't plan to go much larger on tires, perhaps an inch wider and taller but I like the relatively low CG I currently have.

Incidentally, I wasn't trying to be negative toward "Built" Jeeps, just commenting that you don't have to go this route to go nearly anywhere you wish.

Keep the shiny side up,

Ernie

 

[John Canfield]

..Incidentally, I wasn't trying to be negative toward "Built" Jeeps, just commenting that you don't have to go this route to go nearly anywhere you wish.

Quite true.

We started wheeling the Rubicon with only a 4" suspension lift and 33" tires that really measured 32".  We did fine on easy-moderate trails, but would struggle on some obstacles that were a little taller and/or steeper.  I could have limited the trails we ran to the easy-moderate category which was a good match for our setup, but that wasn't going to work for me  .  Then the upgrades began.

 

[DegoRed]

We are on our first trip with this tow/trailer set up, have 887 miles under our belt so far, zero problems/hassles.

The great thing about Jeeps, is there is a style, look, feel, and build for everyone.  There is no right or wrong build, just what makes you happy.  I knew from day one what I wanted, as such, my jeep went straight from the Dealer lot to the shop to get built, there was no gradual step for me.  I paid $26K for my Rubi and spent $36K getting it tore apart and rebuilt.

My tires are 39's, so a is a big difference between 33's and 39's.  I have a 6" Teraflex long arm lift on my Jeep, and have gotten stuck & high centered several times, point being its all relevant.

Here are some photos of my Jeep on my trailer, these are taken at Royal Gorge, CO.  As you can see, I am touching the fenders on both sides, trailer is 82" wide.

 

[SargeW]

Hey Red, what are the smaller set of wheels for at the front of the trailer? Is that just for weight distribution? I have not seen that before.

 

[DegoRed]

Nope, that is a Trailertoad.com, its like a tag axle that basically lets you pull anything (up to 17,500 lbs) with your MH.  This little deal takes all the weight off your MH and puts it onto the tag axle.  This way your MH does not take any of the weight or abuse from towing.  It has a forward and reverse setting, in forward it articulates, in reverse it locks into positions so that it does not articulate.

My MH was originally rated to tow 7000 lbs.  Since I knew I would be at or above the 7K, did not want to push my luck.

The Trailertoad costs about $3,500 but IMO worth every penny.

 

[John Canfield]

Nice looking setup!!!  We bought our Rubi used for about $18K and I have about $12-15K into after-market stuff.

Haven't seen the trailertoad before either.  We are rated to tow 10,000 pounds and the Valley hitch says our receiver is rated for 1,000 pounds of tongue weight, but Winnebago rated it at 500 pounds of tongue weight  .  If you tow 10,000 pounds, you need 10% on the tongue, so that seems like a giant red flag to me on the specs.

BY THE WAY...

For almost 1,000 miles of towing the trailer/Jeep from Texas to Virginia, we are averaging about 7.7-7.8 MPG or EXACTLY the same as towing the Jeep 4-down.  Go figure.  Apparently the less rolling resistance of the trailer tires make up for the extra rolling resistance of the Jeep 4-down negating the extra 1400 pounds behind us.

 

[SargeW]

I think that it's really true that once you get a load moving that the resistance is minimal. I guess that is why I have seen trains up here pulling 1/2 mile of cars behind them! I think that if you were in stop and go traffic for an extended period of time it would make a difference.

 

[173dave]

We tried the tow dolly and it was a real pain. Sold it after our last trip from Oregon to Az. Bought a new car hauler, flat bed trailer. It has breaks and weighs about 1,400 pounds. 7,000 pound capacity.

The whole story is that we sold the dolly and planned to flat tow. We have a Bronco 2 which I use for off road that I currently flat tow. However, my wife does not like to ride in it so we did some trading for another car that we planned to flat tow. We had an Expedition that can not be flat towed or dolly towed so it was just setting in the driveway getting moldy. Our 2010 Milan was so low to the ground that I did not want to flat tow it so we trader the Expedition and the Milan for an Escape. After we got it home I was reading the book and discovered that it was just like the Expedition. Our towing limit is about 5,000 pounds with our DP MH.

I called the dealer, they know we intended to flat tow the Escape. They said they would take it back, but I kind of liked it so I looked around for a car trailer. I found this one and the dealer chipped in 50% of the cost to buy it.

We are planning to go to Yellowstone next week with the new trailer carrying the new car behind the good ole motorhome. The MH is 38 ft. and the trailer is 17 ft so we will be 55 ft over all. I have a tongue jack with a wheel on it and have a hitch for the Escape so when we get to a camp ground I can move the trailer as needed.

The only problem is with the breaks. I have a prodigy break controller and when my exhaust break comes on, it activates the trailer breaks. I need to find a way to fix that.

 

[John Canfield]

I think our compression brake activates the coach's brake lights but not the trailer brake controller - I'll have to look closer when we get back on the road.

 

[Sirvaysa]

Money has exchanged hands 

We left the ranch at 0800 headed to the rendezvous (four hour drive), inspected the trailer (no problems), did a bill of sale, checked out the clear and signed title, handed over an envelope full of $100 bills, hooked up the new Rubi hauler and off we went.  Didn't get back until 1730 hours (yeah, I did a hitch in the military  )

The trailer needs new tires (not unexpected), needs a spare tire, and I want to buy the storage box that fits on the tongue.

It towed great and didn't bounce around like my unloaded 20' equipment trailer.

John,  what does the Featherlight trailer itself weigh and what is its load capability ?  thanks

 

[John Canfield]

Trailer weight: 1400 pounds, axle capacity: 3500 pounds (x2) = CCC of 5600 pounds 

Comparable steel trailers weigh about another 1000 pounds 

 

[Trailertrash Thom]

John i too use a trailer like yours and it saves tires and ware and tear on every moving part,i did notice on the positioning of your jeep looks way to far forward i always position my jeep over the two axles,looks like you have to much tongue weight and having to stop quickly will double your tongue weight not telling you what to do but id center your rig over both axles those look like 35oo lb axles and will work much better that way as far as control...T.C.

 

[John Canfield]

I also think it should be back a little more on the trailer,  I need to get more weight off the coach's rear axle.  I'll have to get longer straps for the front - the front chains are already as long as they can be.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[hes4all]

I think our compression brake activates the coach's brake lights but not the trailer brake controller - I'll have to look closer when we get back on the road.

I put a brake controller on a few years back. You will have to tie it end on the outside of the coach in the front by the generator. You will see the air valve wiring that you will hook into on the drivers side. I also recommend putting in a one way diode. If you us the exhaust brake it will also apply the trailer brakes, this is not a good thing. I have seen many trailer brakes on fire because of this. The one way diode will only let the signal come from the foot brake and not the Jake. You can trust me on this, you WILL NEED THE DIODE. Almost all diesel coaches apply the brake lights when the jake brake is applied.

 

[hes4all]

I will also tell you that if your brake lights are coming on with the Jake brake, then most likely it will activate your trailer brakes too.

 

[John Canfield]

Our brake controller will apply brakes proportional to the amount of deceleration - panic stop - lots of current going to the trailer brakes, gradual braking (service brakes or Jake brake (we have a real compression brake) means very little brake current.  We just came over several passes through the Rocky Mountains on I-70 and I didn't notice the brake controller brake voltage - I'll have to remember to look when Mr. Jake is doing his thing.