Toilet questions

[George Hawkins]

Hey, all:

A couple more Newbie questions (2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40X):

1. Should the toilet bowl hold some level of water until it is used (to accept waste) and then replaced after the toilet is flushed (such as the toilet you'd find in a "stick n' brick"?  When I actually moved into the coach (March) this is how I operated it. Since then I noticed the bowl seal leaked periodically. I sprayed silicone onto the edge of the seal and bowl as was recommended to me. Initially this worked. Then it got harder and harder to get the bowl seal to hold (I JUST started applying a light coat of petroleum jelly). I'm starting to wonder if I am going about this all wrong. Perhaps I am supposed to put water into the bowl prior to use, use the toilet, flush the waste (clean the bowl as necessary) then leave it empty until the next use and then add water again?. Anyone?

2. I'm finding that the two screws that hold the foot pedal to the base of the toilet have begun backing them selves out. The first time this happened the bowl valve stuck OPEN and the coach filled with STINK rather quickly. Even though I'm a newbie it didn't take me long to diag'nose' (pun intended) the problem. I had to dissemble the foot pedal, remove the screws altogether, close the valve manually and then reinstall the pedal and tighten the two screws. When it happened a second time I applied a coat of medium grade Loc-Tite to the screws. It's just happened again.  I presume what the screws screw into (plastic?) does not bond with Loc-Tite. What will keep these screws tight? Will split ring or star lock washers under the screw heads work? Eventually the screws will become SO loose they won't hold at all and I'll be faced with replacing the whole toilet.

Anyone?

 

[judway]

After flushing there should be water left in the bowl similar to what is in the house, but it will onlly be about a cup full or so. It should remain there until flushed. If you use hard water the slide valve will collect lime from the water and cause buildup and leakage. This has to be removed when the problem occurs.  I have had to clean both the Thetford and the SeaLand. The procedure depends on what brand of toilet you have. What toilet do you have?

 

[COMer]

I think the reasoning with having some water stay in the bowl is as a seal so odors cannot come up through.  So, it's important to maintain that water (like a P trap) and if it isn't then you probably have a bad seal.  Cheap to replace and a good idea.

Hard to know what is causing the screws to back out.  I've never had that problem but somebody else will have and can give you ideas. 

Any possibility that the holes are enlarged and you need bigger screws, or to fill up the holes to make them smaller again?

 

[papahog]

I bought A 2008 TT and after about a year I had the same problem with the water leaking out and smell leaking in.  I took it in to the shop I bought it from and they took it apart and fixed it.  This fix worked real good...........................for about 4 months on the road.  I took it back and it was fixed again.  Same thing happens again and so I paid to have a toilet with a knife valve put in.  Have been really happy since then. 

 

[John Canfield]

Check the manual for your toilet - it might detail a cleaning procedure.  Petroleum jelly is generally destructive to seals and gaskets, so I would avoid its use.  Use a little vegetable oil instead.

 

[Jack Nichols]

I am sort of new at this myself, having full timed for about 18 months now.  I have been through some sealing issues, such as yours, so you might gain something from my post.

A commode at a stix and brix uses a siphon seal with water remaining in the bowl, to keep sewer gas smell from coming into the bowl.  First I will outline how my toilet works, then the problems I have had, and how I fixed them.  Bear with me, and maybe some of this relate to your questions.

On my Thetford toilet there is a sliding valve, sealed by a rubber gasket on top, fairly typical setup, either a blade or ball that moves against a rubber seal and drops the waste.  Since mine is a totally electric toilet, it handles all the water control and valve opening automatically, so I will take that as a ?norm?. 

There are two switch setting on the electric toilet.
 
1. One switch setting opens the valve as long as a button is pushed, letting water automatically wash through. 

2. The other switch setting mimics a ?house mode? that operates with one small push of a button ? the valve opens for five seconds  or so, with water washing the whole time, then it closes and runs quite a bit of water into the bowl, leaving a pool sort of like a house toilet. 

I usually use the first switch setting, because it uses less water and I do not have the possibility of it short cycling and trapping waste in the valve closing because it stays open as long as I have my finger on the button.  (I wish I had the foot lever type, as all the automatic gadgetry will have a problem at some point.)


My mechanism started operating slowly, so slowly it would not seal well.  I could access the emergency knob on the back to force it closed (or open when it hung ? high anxiety when that happened), and it was obvious from the effort it took that the mechanism was dragging against rubber somewhere, presumably the seal.  That is when I ordered the replacement mechanism.  All this time the bowl would hold water when it was operated, so the seal was still good, just sticky to operate.

When I expect to have waste and paper in the bowl I put a folded length of toilet paper in the bowl, under where waste is likely to drop.  When it is time to flush, I run water into the bowl without opening the dump valve, until the paper and everything else is floating.  Then I press the button to open the waste valve and allow waste to drop into the tank.  After it drops clear of the valve I release the button, everything closes, and a small amount of water flows into the bowl to cover the top of the valve blade (maybe 3/8 inch).  With the ?floating method?, there is very rarely anything left in the bowl.  If I am going to be parked for a while I leave the bowl about ? to ? full. If traveling, as little water as I can to discourage slosh.

Be careful of the cleaning products you use, as there is a possibility something I used washed away the lubrication on the mechanism.  Bowl cleaners may do that ? I now use Soft Scrub every week or so in the bowl, window cleaner on the outside.

Problems and how I attacked them:

With the dragging of the mechanism, it would hang up, as I mentioned.  (At this point it still held water and kept stink out of the coach.) So, I used some aerosol spray ?pure silicone? into every place I could find an opening, targeting any mechanism, and the seal itself with the dump valve open.  Even under the valve blade seal, back into the back of what ever is under there.  I also squirted lube on the outside of the back, just in case something was sticking.  I also used a very thick silicone gel on the rubber seal where it contacts the moving valve surface.  All that made the mechanism work great, and I thought I was a genius.

Two days later (and I think totally unrelated to the first incident) I short cycled the button while flushing, and managed to trap some waste and paper in the valve as it closed. After that water seeped out in a minute or so.  No smell, because I use so much water I do not have a smell problem ? the little wind vane rotational device on the top of the vent pipe that gives a slight negative air pressure in the waste tank probably helps too. 

So here I am with the famous leaking seal problem, bowl will not hold water.  I fixed that (for this week, anyway) by opening the valve, using a q-tip to swab the underside of the rubber seal as far as I could all over under there (being careful to not drop the q-tip ? used four of them), then used a low pressure water flush (the plastic wand I use to flush out the hot water tank) and applied the very thick silicone grease on the seal.  I did not see anything dislodged with the q-tip, but after that it held water just fine, so I must have done some good.

The bolts backing out are a mystery, probably due to some misalignment of the mechanism.  I would have used Blue Locktite (not the Red) like you did.  Star washers may keep them tight, but maybe not.  One possible next step is get a Helicoil the proper size for the hole and bolt, and replace the plastic threads with metal ones.  Helicoil can be be found at larger auto parts stores.  I may be spelling that wrong.  They are used in a ?stripped? instance, like when you strip a bolt on the head of your brand new Corvette aluminum block. (I think they use a steel insert, but you see my point.)

Hope this helps. It is worth what you paid for it. ;*)