I just purchased a 2011 Heartland Big Horn 3585RL 5th Wheel. It has a GVWR of 16K and Dry wt. of 11,950. I am towing with a 2008 Dodge HD 2500 Big Horn 6.7L Diesel, short bed, crew cab, single tire rear axle. The truck has a GVWR of 9K, GVWof 6K, Front GAWR of 4750 and Rear GAWR of 6010. From everything I have been able to read, I think I am okay with limits, but I am not certain. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks, Bill
Towing capacity for 5th wheel with 2008 Dodge HD 2500 Big Horn 6.7L Diesel
- Thread starter wjdonn
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I suspect you're way, way over the limits for your truck. I've got a 2006 Dodge 2500 and pull a Keystone Challenger 32RKS which has a GVWR of 13,500lbs which I've weighed at the scale at 12,000lbs (my wife and I pack lite). I'm over the trucks GVWR by a couple of hundred pounds. Now, I've looked at the difference between a 2500 SRW and 3500 SRW and there are three differences. 1) The badge on the side of the truck. 2) A heavier rear spring. 3) The sticker on the door frame shows 900lbs more GVWR. I added air bags and adjustable shocks and feel comfortable, but not actually legal, about the weight I'm pulling.
You're trailer will never weigh anywhere close to 11,950 (water, food, dishes, TV/audio, battery, propane) and depending on how you load you may get close to that 16k number which means you'll be putting around 3200 pounds on the back of your truck. Your truck numbers look similar to mind which also means you've got a GCWR (combined rating) of 20k which you'll be way over. Your truck will easily weigh in around 7000lbs.
You're trailer will never weigh anywhere close to 11,950 (water, food, dishes, TV/audio, battery, propane) and depending on how you load you may get close to that 16k number which means you'll be putting around 3200 pounds on the back of your truck. Your truck numbers look similar to mind which also means you've got a GCWR (combined rating) of 20k which you'll be way over. Your truck will easily weigh in around 7000lbs.
Carl L
Moderator Emeritus
Trailer Life's Tow Ratings for 2008 list tow ratings for the Quad Cab 6.7L TD at
Manual transmission
You need a far more capable truck for that trailer, on with a tow rating in the vicinity of 17,800 lbs, allowing a 10% cushion. Things like springs, transmission gearing, frame strength, and brakes go into tow ratings. There is not a whole lot you can do after-market to close the gap here short of jacking up the stereo and running a new truck underneath.
I know this is a helluva time to learn that, but that is the way it is. Sorry.
Manual transmission
- 3.42:1 rear end 12,300 lbs
- 3.73:1 rear end 13,300 lbs
- 3.73 or 4.10:1 rear end 12,900 lbs
You need a far more capable truck for that trailer, on with a tow rating in the vicinity of 17,800 lbs, allowing a 10% cushion. Things like springs, transmission gearing, frame strength, and brakes go into tow ratings. There is not a whole lot you can do after-market to close the gap here short of jacking up the stereo and running a new truck underneath.
I know this is a helluva time to learn that, but that is the way it is. Sorry.
shawnc
Well-known member
There's not much difference between the 3/4 and 1 ton models of trucks aside for the ratings and rear leaf springs. They come with the same rear axle for the diesel (AAM 11.5") and the frames are the same. Dodge only has 2 tranny options for the diesel whether it be the in the 3/4 or 1 ton, both 6 sp, manual or auto. More than likely the brakes are the same on that axle. The springs in the rear are thicker for the 1 ton. You could probably add some air bags for the added tongue weight on the truck. Not sure what your tires are rated for. Do you know if you have "D" or "E" rated?
janpaul
Well-known member
Modifications such as air bags, Banks type performance enhancements, etc, will not change the tow rating of the vehicle. Just bear in mind the lability that could be involved if you were to be in an accident with a camper that exceeds the ratings of your tow vehicle. Also, think of yours and the safety of others, let alone the stress on the truck by exceeding it's rating.
janpaul said:
Not sure if that comment was directed at me, but since I'm the one who mentioned adding air bags and adjustable shocks to deal with a couple of hundred pounds over my 9k limit I'll respond. From a pure letter of the law point of view I understand that I'm over the limit. From a rational point of view I'm not. If my truck was labeled a 3500 SRW I would be under my GVWR by about 500 pounds. What's the difference between the two trucks; as I pointed out from a mechanical point of view only the rear leaf spring is different. The tires are the same, the brakes the same, transmission, engine are all the same. Safety is a concern which is why I spent a big chunk of change adding the Dodge approved engine exhaust brake. I don't have to worry about brake fade going down a hill.
The OP isn't going over the GVWR of the truck by a couple of hundred pounds. He will be exceeding the GVWR of even a 3500 SRW and exceeding the GCWR by around 3k pounds (assuming he approaches the trailer's GVWR). Stopping that rig will be a challenge even under the best of conditions.
Those tow ratings mentioned seem low for a 5th wheel tow rating for that type of truck. Those look like TT numbers, not 5th wheel or goose neck. For that type/year of truck, I would think the tow rating would be more in the 16K vicinity for 5th/GN towing (Check the CGWR for both truck and trailer combined), in which case he may be close, but maybe not over the tow rating (depending on actual weight of the trailer), but the truck's GVWR may be exceeded a bit by the pin weight, but perhaps not the RAWR.
All speculation of course... but actual weights should be obtained, and 5th wheel/GN/CGRW tow ratings should be verified, not TT tow ratings.
All speculation of course... but actual weights should be obtained, and 5th wheel/GN/CGRW tow ratings should be verified, not TT tow ratings.
Carl L
Moderator Emeritus
Speculation indeed. I gave my source for the ratings -- Trailer Life's tow rating tables. They are found on the Trailer Life website in ther Tech section. ( www.trailerlife.com/tech.cfm ) Trailer Life's source are the manufacturers' numbers. They do warn that the numbers may be preliminary and may be superceded by mfr final numbers. In any case, go and see them and then check with the mfr websites.
FastEagle
Well-known member
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- Jan 12, 2010
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- 647
wjdonn said:
My older model (2004) one ton Dodge DRW (CTD) is pretty stout. It?s GVWR is 11,500# and with the 4.10 hooked up to an auto trans my GCWR is 23,000#. When scaled out ready to hit the road the truck weighs 8,500#. When I add the (scaled) fiver?s pin weight (2,700#) the truck is within 300# of the GVWR. When I add the 13.500# trailer to the 8,500# truck I?m within 1,000# of GCWR. Although I consider it heavy, I?m always within specs and it?s a comfortable combination and tows well.
FastEagle
PhilsFrontier
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2010
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I always wonder why these questions continue to come up. This information should be in the owner's manual; should it not? I realize there are a lot of experienced haulers on here with great advice. However, the information in the manual should take precident over anything said casually on a online forum. I also notice that when a smaller vehicle owner is talking trailers here, they are warned over and over about the dangers of towing too much wieght. In this post there are 2 trucks overloaded....be it 100 pounds or 1000 pounds, overloaded is overloaded imho.
If I were in the OP shoes, I would trade in the dodge and try to get my hands on a Ford F-450 psd. Or try to take back the fiver for something in your capacity to tow safely and legally.
Good luck and safe driving everyone.
If I were in the OP shoes, I would trade in the dodge and try to get my hands on a Ford F-450 psd. Or try to take back the fiver for something in your capacity to tow safely and legally.
Good luck and safe driving everyone.
janpaul
Well-known member
ramcneal said:
I was not directing at anyone, sorry if you took it that way, I was just making a generic statement about aftermarket devices, because some people actually believe that adding these will add to the trucks capacity. I know a guy who has an 18K GVWR toy hauler that he tows with an F-250 PSD, when I mentoned the weight to him he assured me the truck was fine because of the Banks kit and the air bags.
