Upgrading UPS capacity

[vassock]

How can I upgrade a Cyberpower PP1500SW-T2 UPS to have more energy storage capacity? What type of battery set up would I need?

This is assuming access to city electricity, not from a generator.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I would think you wold have to ask the Cyberpower people that question. The UPS has only so much battery space inside and I doubt if a larger capacity battery would fit.

As an alternative, forget the UPS and install an inverter in the RV. Then make the battery bank as large as you feel you have need for.

 

[Icemaker]

I would think you wold have to ask the Cyberpower people that question. The UPS has only so much battery space inside and I doubt if a larger capacity battery would fit.

As an alternative, forget the UPS and install an inverter in the RV. Then make the battery bank as large as you feel you have need for.

Wouldn't  that in effect make  UPS ???

 

[Ned]

Wouldn't  that in effect make  UPS ???

Yes, a UPS is just a battery and inverter in one box.  But a UPS will maintain the output power better during an input power failure.  Some inverters don't switch fast enough to keep the loads from seeing the momentary power loss.

 

[Icemaker]

Yes, a UPS is just a battery and inverter in one box.  But a UPS will maintain the output power better during an input power failure.  Some inverters don't switch fast enough to keep the loads from seeing the momentary power loss.

My first awareness of UPS was when I was preforming maintenance on computer room A/C units at a large computer center in San Jose are in the mid 70's...
I told my apprentice to turn off a particular A/C unit so we could service it..my mistake was in delegating that to a new "kid"..He looked on the wall and saw a large disconnect labeled [A/C]....it was not [Air/Conditioning] ....it was [Alternating/Current] power supply to the UPS center on the other side of the wall...it was a fast learning curve moment..

George

 

[Just Lou]

For a battery/inverter combination to do the best job as an UPS, one should probably run off the inverter at all times, and just use the incoming power to keep the batteries charged.  There is NO switchover delay involved with this arrangement.

I wired my rig to do exactly what I described.  When in areas where power quality or reliability is suspect, power to the air conditioners and battery charger(s) is provided by the main panel and all the rest of the coach is powered by the inverter (I simply cripple the I/C transfer switch) via a sub panel.  Works quite well. 

The above was my justification for leaving the converter installed when I installed the 2KW I/C.

 

[Ned]

If the UPS was working, no one might have noticed

 

[Just Lou]

If the UPS was working, no one might have noticed

Correct, Ned.  I should be more specific about which thought I'm responding to.  Pardon the interruption

 

[Ned]

Lou, I was actually responding to George

If there were an easy way to disable the built in transfer switch on our inverter, I would run off of it all the time too.

 

[Icemaker]

Lou, I was actually responding to George

If there were an easy way to disable the built in transfer switch on our inverter, I would run off of it all the time too.

Ned it was hard not to notice when the alarms and flashing lights went into action...there were all those signs warning of impending doom if the fire alarm system went off [CO2] and that was the first thought...as far as system damage it probably did just what should have been done...just caused an uproar and a bunch of finger pointing...as Lou said...no autopsy..no foul [or something like that]  :
George

 

[Just Lou]

Lou, I was actually responding to George

OOOPS! that makes sense....

If there were an easy way to disable the built in transfer switch on our inverter, I would run off of it all the time too.

My I/C transfer switch is on a breaker, so defeating it is very easy.  As I stated though, you need an alternate source to charge the batteries.  I simply left the DP9260 installed, and feed it from the shore power prior to the I/C.

 

[Ned]

George, I'll bet it was exciting around there.  But I'll bet the computers stayed running.  I would also guess the fire system used Halon, not C02, and you don't want to be in the room when that goes off.

Lou, my I/C is on a breaker too, but I can't disable it without loosing the charger, and have no other means of charging the batteries.  I suppose the inverter could be modified to allow for disabling the transfer switch, but that's too much like work

 

[Icemaker]

George, I'll bet it was exciting around there.  But I'll bet the computers stayed running.  I would also guess the fire system used Halon, not C02, and you don't want to be in the room when that goes off.

Lou, my I/C is on a breaker too, but I can't disable it without loosing the charger, and have no other means of charging the batteries.  I suppose the inverter could be modified to allow for disabling the transfer switch, but that's too much like work

Ned...you might be correct...I've worked an many 'puter rooms and clean rooms...back in the 60-70's and up till the 90ish or so Halon was popular w/ some CO2 too...than because of the "rules" halon was/is phased out..as for deadly...yes both are ..as for 'puters never missing a beat that too..my apprentice was running too...to the truck...in those days the  temp & relative humidity were so critical that I made a very good living..loved that work.
G.

 

[vassock]

What hardware set up would you recommend? Perhaps I can run the UPS from an inverter/battery setup? I am worried about protecting my sensitive electronic equipment (monitor and PC) from power spikes and brownouts so I'd like to keep my sine wave UPS.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Some UPS units allow connecting to an external battery. You would need to contact the manufacturer to determine if that is possible and what limitations there would be, such as battery type and size.

If making your own UPS from an inverter and your own battery bank, make sure you get an inverter that puts out a true sine wave, not a modified sinewave. Not all computers work well, if at all, on a modified sine wave. A homebuilt UPS would use a convertor to keep the battery banks charged. The inverter would run off both the batteries and the convertor (the batteries help to stabilize the convertor output) and provide 120v directly to the equipment being protected. Surge, spike, off voltage, etc. protection is needed for the convertor but a good EMS protecting the entire RV will provide that protection. Connecting all of your equipment to a power strip that has surge and spike protection and is fed from the invertor would also be a wise idea in case something ever went wrong with the inverter. Having an easily seen voltmeter to monitor the outp[ut voltage would also be a good idea (an additional EMS would be ideal but also an expensive form of overkill).

 

[vassock]

I was thinking of getting a U2200. Not too pricy and lots of amp hours with good reviews. Is this battery safe for prolonged indoor use with people in the same room? It doesn't emit harmful gases or anything, right?

With that I was looking for some charger and inverter recommendations. Unfortunately I do not have much experience in this subject. Since the batteries will be connected to the grid for most of the time, they will function mostly as back-up. Thus they should have long lives and should not emit harmful gases.

Do I really need a true sine wave inverter if I put the existing UPS between the inverter and the PC?

Would a Schumacher SE-70MA Fully Automatic Deep-Cycle Charger work to charge the battery? Would a Sunforce 11240 1000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter with Remote Control be good enough for an inverter?

 

[John From Detroit]

The Interstate U 2200 battery is a flooded wet cell and needs to be either "outside" or in a sealed, vented to the outside, battery box.

IF you have a big enough converter, IN ADDITION to your inverter, you can run off the inverter full time by simply restoring power to the converter and turning the power to the inverter off.  I do it this way on occasion.

As to "True sine wave"... Well, there are folks who say "Well I've used an MSW for years with no problem" but .. They always forget a word "YET".

MSW's work with MOST things.. but there is a long list of things that sometimes do not work so good, AM radios (Nearly 100% here) Televisions, sat receivers, some computer power supplies (run hotter).  Failure mode ranges from Noise in audio or radio gear, wiggle or bars on TV pictures. Clocks running faster, Microwaves cooking slower, and in some cases the device under power catching FIRE!!!

This simply does not happen with a True sine wave inverter.

UPS... Many UPS units are MSW.

 

[vassock]

The one I have is pure sine wave according to the manufacturer. That's why I bought it. That means pure sine wave output. But can it take in modified sine wave and convert it to clean pure sine wave for the computer without either the PC or the UPS being damaged?

So I take it the U2200 is not a good choice. What about this?

http://www.batterymart.com/p-12v-100ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery.html

 

[Ned]

But can it take in modified sine wave

I don't know of any UPS unit that will work on a modified sine wave.  I've looked and asked the manufacturers.  But using in inverter to power a UPS is really not necessary, as has been described.  Use your batteries to power a true sine wave inverter (not a charger/inverter) and a separate converter/charger to keep the batteries charged and you've got a very large UPS.  And you eliminate the losses involved with the extra conversion steps of the UPS as well as the extra cost and failure points of the UPS hardware.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...but there is a long list of things that sometimes do not work so good, AM radios (Nearly 100% here) Televisions, sat receivers, some computer power supplies (run hotter)...

Some computer power supplies, such as the Corsairs, flat will not work with MSW.