W-20/W-22 Workhorse Chassis Brake Problems?

[burgman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like there has not been many problems with Workhorse brakes after 2005. So what did they change? Looking at the whole system from the brake pedal to the calipers there must be something different.

I would think that one of the ambassador?s or somebody with connections to Workhorse would try to help instead of defending the fact there is no problem.

My motorhome is a 2002 W22 and warranty is long gone. I don?t mind putting a little money in to fix it, but I hate fixing things that are the problem. I think Workhorse or Bosh knows what the problem is, but afraid it will cost them big time if they let it out.

People that are changing there caliper and doing all there maintenance are still having problems. If it turns out to be the calipers and Bosh made some changes after 05 we should know about it.

I?m glad to see people coming over here from the other site. Maybe we can get some where without getting shut down all the time.

Burgman

 

[Richard 34A]

If none of the site administrators here wear a Workhorse polo shirt, drink coffee all day from a Workhorse mug and make a run to the complimentary Workhorse doughnuts at the RV shows, it's has to be better here.

I see yet another thread was closed over there and no one was even allowed to 'reply' at all. No matter what the thread is about, if certain threads and replies are censored and locked down, what's the point of the forum? Seems like it has outlived it's usefulness and hope RV Forum will be a great alternative to better, non-biased information... if I only want information regarding it's 'new and improved products for the upcoming model year', I can just read the Workhorse SPAM sent to my email or go to the Workhorse Chassis website. Don't need a forum for that kind of stuff...

One or two people brought up the pressure that can build up the the brake fluid reservoir and sticking seals; I'd sure like to read more about those, as maybe there's an answer in there for us. Seems more plausible to me than blaming two-year old brake fluid. Here's what I wrote over there:

I have a Mercedes that is now 21 years old, still on it's first set of brake pads and rotors all the way around, and the brake fluid has been changed ONCE in it's entire life. I have another Mercedes that is now 8 years old; original brakes and fluid. I have a 2003 Suburban with original brakes and fluid. Go to any of those forums and you will not find 'brake issues' like we find on some Workhorse chassis. Prior to my current W20, I had a Ford chassis MH; sold it with somewhere around 50k miles or so... original brake pads and rotors all the way around and I don't remember ever having the brake fluid changed... check the Ford forums and see if you come up with the same degree of brake issues we have here... the answer will be 'no'.

You've probably read some posts here that focus on the tight fit of the seals and others that note what could be excessive pressure build up in the brake fluid reservoir; I find that far more plausible as a problem than not changing the fluid every two years, since the problems seem to go away after the mid-2005 chassis and newer. Are these owners changing the fluid every two years, do they somehow drive their MH's better in the hills and in traffic, are they driving their MH's more then the previous model-year owners? Do Ford owners maintain their MH?s better than us, do they drive theirs better than we do? I personally don?t think so? just my 'opinion and view'.

 

[Richard 34A]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like there has not been many problems with Workhorse brakes after 2005. So what did they change? Looking at the whole system from the brake pedal to the calipers there must be something different.

I would think that one of the ambassador's or somebody with connections to Workhorse would try to help instead of defending the fact there is no problem.

Burgman

Well, you-know-who claims that no real changes have been made to the mid-year 2005 and newer chassis brake components and says to change the brake fluid every two years. But I'll bet there are some 2005, 2006 and early 2007 models that haven't been changing their brake fluid; why haven't they had problems?

 

[Ron]

Have any of you experiencing the subject problems reported them to the NHTSA?  If I was experiencing these type problems and nothing was being done to correct it via a recall at no cost you can bet I would be filling and submitting out the NHTSA form found HERE.  I addition has anyone approached Winnie to find out they have reported it and if not request they do do if the proper actions are not being taken by Workhorse?  In any case if you are experiencing subject problems report it.

 

[Brake-less]

Have any of you experiencing the subject problems reported them to the NHTSA?  If I was experiencing these type problems and nothing was being done to correct it via a recall at no cost you can bet I would be filling and submitting out the NHTSA form found HERE.  I addition has anyone approached Winnie to find out they have reported it and if not request they do do if the proper actions are not being taken by Workhorse?  In any case if you are experiencing subject problems report it.

Many of us have reported it to the NHTSA. The investigation is now 14 months old and seems nothing is being done.

 

[Ron]

Many of us have reported it to the NHTSA. The investigation is now 14 months old and seems nothing is being done.

I would be requesting an update and emphsizing this is considered  a real safety issue.  Maybe a copy to the head honcho there is in order.

 

[Brake-less]

I would be requesting an update and emphsizing this is considered  a real safety issue.  Maybe a copy to the head honcho there is in order.

That's good advice. I will attempt to find out who and how and relay this to the forum.

Thanks Ron

 

[max49]

There's been a lot of talk about the '05 thru current WH chassis that don't have brake problem and what is different about them.
     Could it not be that they just need a little more time?
    I haven't had any brake problem so far with my P-32 but there's no way I would push my luck and buy any new or other WH until they fix all the old ones that have had brake problems.  How could I trust a company like that? If they won't fix the old problems, why would they treat me any different.
    I guess I don't know 'big business' but they'd know how much money it would cost them to fix this problem, but maybe it makes them feel better not knowing exactly how much it is costing them to do nothing.

   Even tho I kinda liked the warden at the other place, I think the new owners are going to mess it up. The inmates are escaping ;D

 

[John Canfield]

Just thought I would come over here and see how the weather is. Am about to get run off the "other " site over brake issues. Over there you can't say anything negative about Workhorse or they throw you off. Hope it's better here. Rick

Hi Rick - very glad to have you aboard!  I can assure you it is magnitudes better here (IMHO), but hopefully everybody can understand the difference between solving problems and just fussing about it.

... The inmates are escaping ;D

Too funny  ;D

 

[winnie35]

I reported mine over 1 year ago.  I've tried calling nhtsa and tried to get some answers from them but cant get past the clerk answering the phone.  Workhorse made a promise that a fix was coming out in a few weeks in Oct at the myrtle beach rally. The only reason Allen made that statement was so he could escape with his head.  Workhorse has no intentions of fixing the problem and I don't believe nhtsa will do anything either because the cost would probably hurt workhorse. I don't believe at this time the gov is willing to make workhorse do a recall because of the cost.  I for one don't agree with that because you cant put a price on safety.  I just noticed the other site has let a new brake thread open up.  Why doesn't the moderator that has been trying to close them up reopen the 108 page thread. Because 1) they don't want it staying on page one for the whole world to see and 2) I believe they know they are losing alot of members.    I see that the same moderator is over here and I for one am glad he cant hold us back from telling the truth about his company.  OK I'm done venting and it felt good to get that off my chest.  ps , another good thing about this site is spell check.  Gotta love it.

 

[John Canfield]

ps , another good thing about this site is spell check.  Gotta love it.

A little OT, but if you use Firefox, you have spell check built-in to the browser.  I don't work very hard at correct spelling anymore - I let the program do most of my thinking 

 

[rickandcheryl]

I have requested my Congressman to look into the non-action by NHTSA and Workhorse on the brake problems and will let everyone know what I receive as an answer, if I get an answer. Just asking everyone who has had brake problems to notify their Congressman almost got me barred from the other site. I feel this issue is extremely important to all of us who have Workhorse Chassis vehicles as it affects the safety of our families and public safety in general.  Just think about hundreds, if not thousands of 11 ton motor homes traveling the roads of this country with severe brake problems. Scary, YES!

 

[John Canfield]

Let us know if you hear anything, Rick.

 

[FrontrangeRVer]

Rick, thanks for posting over here!

 

[winnie35]

well we can add another person to the brake failure club. Just saw it on the other site. BTW he reported it to the nhtsa. If you guys need the site its  www.nhtsa.gov

 

[FrontrangeRVer]

According to another Workhorse chassis owner, it sounds like "Richard Boyd" from the NHTSA is saying that NTHSA is going to release something soon about this brake issue, and "up to 45,000 Workhorse chassis" are affected.   

I thought there were several interesting points.  Apparently an NHTSA engineering team has flown to 4 vehicles in different areas of the country that had reported failures for inspection, test and evaluation.  The potential pool of affected vehicles is over 45,000, and the NHTSA team is evaluating over 11,000 warranty claims to see if there is relation to reported failures.  The evaluation team is concerned about the phonelic (SP?) piston absorbing moisture (it appears that the "changing the brake fluid" push by the Workhorse Ambassadors isn't the solution to these problems like they have been saying it is). The brake change by WCC in June 04 adding a new caliper with bigger slide pins seems to have dramatically decreased failures.

It looks like one of the reasons the evaluation is taking so long is that it must pass every technical and legal muster - in case the results are challenged by the manufacturer and he believes that his team is one month away from completing their investgation and publishing their findings. The findings can have one of three results:

1. There is no problem with the WCC brakes
2. NHTSA insists on a full recall
3. A compromise position between NHTSA and WCC that is less than s full recall


When the official word finally comes, I will post it here on RVForum.net!   

 

[John Canfield]

Mark - thanks for keeping us updated.  The wheels of government can turn very slowly, so this certainly sounds like progress.

 

[Ron]

Mark - thanks for keeping us updated.  The wheels of government can turn very slowly, so this certainly sounds like progress.

Unless the government is spending money for earmarks or such.

 

[n4eow]

This is old I know...but there was a late 2004 recall on 2001-2003 Workhorse W series chassis built with bosch brake calipers, Dealer Bulletin 50401-c.  This was issued nearly two years after I experienced two complete brake failures on my 2002 Workhorse W20 chassis;  first on the front at 16000 miles and the second at 23,000 miles on both rears.  The first was on a mountain road in Ga and I was very lucky to stop the vehicle with gearing down and hand brake.  The front left wheel was nearly on fire,  the oil seal blown out, ABS burned up requiring a 200 mile tow and complete replacement of calipers, pads, rotars, seals, ABS sensors brake lines, etc on both front wheels.  The second was on the Interstate in N.C. when I experienced complete brake failure on the rear wheels and likely would have had a serious accident had others on the highway noticed my emergency flashers and horn and gave me the right-of-way until I could bet the vehicle stopped in the emergence lane and get a tow.  Repairs required complete overhaul of rear brakes including callipers, pistons, pads, etc.  I called and wrote to Workhorse repeatedly about these near disasters but no recall for nearly 2 years.  In Jan 2005,  I took my motorhome to Workhorse dealer in response to the recall and they said all the required work had been performed. 

On a recent trip to South Florida,  st 39,000 miles, my brakes failed again at fairly low speed (might have stopped better had I pressed very hard) almost resulting in a rear end collision.  There was a noise when applying the brakes as the vehicle finally came to a stop. I shakedly limped back 10 miles to a Truck?Rv repair facility.  An experienced mechanic with those type brakes checked master cylinder, pads, calipers as best he could and said all looked good.  He concluded it could possibly be an intermittent malfunctlion in the booster under the hood.  Has anyone experienced such a problem? 

In nearly 40,000 miles I could have not been happier with my 8100 engine and the chassis (except pssibly suspension comfort) except for the brakes.  I am not comfortable with them now and feel I may never be completely confident.  This is my 5th motorhome and nevera a serious brake problem till now. 

 

[Richard 34A]

Just thought I would come over here and see how the weather is. Am about to get run off the "other " site over brake issues. Over there you can't say anything negative about Workhorse or they throw you off. Hope it's better here. Rick

RickandCheryl;

Tried to post in 'W22 brakes after setting' thread at you know where; I noticed that some of my original posts are completely gone, not just 'edited' and when I posted a reply, a message stated that my post would have to be reviewed and approved... guess I'lll never get to post in any brake theads there. What a joke!