W-20/W-22 Workhorse Chassis Brake Problems?

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Richard 34A said:
SNIP

On a lighter note, I'm two weeks away from doing the do-it-yourself project of inspecting the rotors, lubing the caliper brake pins and changing the brake fluid. I've had it planned for some time but it took longer to get all the necessary tools to do the job. (475 ft. lbs. on those lug nuts had something to do with it.) I'll probably take some pictures and can post my experience if anyone is interested... I've never done this before but am looking forward to learning the steps so I can do myself every 18-24 months.
Click to expand...

I just flushed and replaced my brake fluid a few weeks ago. I used the technique of turning the transfer arm to activate the electric boost pump to push the fluid out and used a small mirror to make sure the master cylinder didn't get too low. Note that there is only one fluid chamber in the master cylinder.

I had DW at the drains with a tube going down into a jar with some fluid in it so she could tell me when the fluid got clear.

At Autozone I saw some drain fittings that have a built in check valve so the fitting does not have to be tightened when you let go of the transfer arm. That would make the job much easier. They have two metric sizes but I don't know which one is right.
I used about 3 1/2 quarts of brake fluid.
 
They will probably replace the fluid when they replace the calipers. I am going to wait for the recall to see if they will do it for free. They are most likely going to replace all four calipers so the system will be open..
 
Clay L said:
I just flushed and replaced my brake fluid a few weeks ago. I used the technique of turning the transfer arm to activate the electric boost pump to push the fluid out and used a small mirror to make sure the master cylinder didn't get too low. Note that there is only one fluid chamber in the master cylinder.

I had DW at the drains with a tube going down into a jar with some fluid in it so she could tell me when the fluid got clear.

At Autozone I saw some drain fittings that have a built in check valve so the fitting does not have to be tightened when you let go of the transfer arm. That would make the job much easier. They have two metric sizes but I don't know which one is right.
I used about 3 1/2 quarts of brake fluid.
Click to expand...

I recently bought two Motive Products brake bleeders, one for European vehicles and one for GM, but the reservoir for the Workhorse is different than both of those. I've tried to find out which model brake bleeder would work; anyone here use one of these and knows the exact model for a Workhorse chassis?
 
Richard, sorry but I can't help you with the bleeders.  Like Clay, I had my brake fluid flushed, but my local dealer did it.

I do believe when they replace the calipers, they will also bleed the brake fluid....but that's all they will replace.....no rotor or pad replacements.

We should all get our "official" Recall notices in a couple of months (not the interim notices), so stay off the brakes as much as you can this Summer!  :eek:

PS.  Go to Google, type in "Workhorse Brakes" and the first link that comes up is THIS THREAD!!!  Now, that's some good information!  ;D
 
I spoke with Alen Stegich today (Workhorse, now Navistar) He told me they will fix current lock ups using "old" parts, new parts are expected early Fall.

My problme is I won't get the letters less they E-mail them, which is why I e-mailed him
 
  Richard 34A,  I am not sure what adapters would work with the motive system, but I bought a vacuum bleeder a while ago from Griots Garage and it worked great. You pump it to create a vacuum, connect it to the bleeder and pull the fluid out. I also took a "C Clamp"  and compressed the caliper pistons in to ensure there was no hang up in the bore before bleeding. Just returned from Dover (800 miles round trip) with no concerns.  I also rebuilt a set of calipers from the last replacement just in case I had a problem for @ $100.
 
I am picking up my 2002 Workhorse W20 with 40,000 miles from authorized WH dealer where WH authorized repairs.  My complaint was the usual overheating of breaks and in addition several instances of what appeared to be complete loss of power brakes or boost where I had a very hard pedal and could not stop.
They have replaced calipers in all 4 wheels and could not assure me definitely that the loss of power brakes was or was not related to the calipers.

In talking to Workhorse Tech Support,  Greg said the May 2009 Interim Notice 50901C was not a recall.  It was to notify owners if they were having the stated problems,  Workhorse would probably aty teir option)  replace only needed parts on the wheel or wheels at fault.  The replacement parts (calipers) would not be of any new design.  They are working on a new design which would not be available until late fall.  It would not be until the new design is available that an actual recall would be made.  I hope this helps to clear up the intent of the Interim Notice.

If anyone has had loss of brakes (hard brake) acting like loss of boost like I have without overheating brakes,  please let me know.  I can no longer have confidence in the braking system on my MH until I know what caused these failures which nearly caused several very serious accidents. 
 
Thanks for your post n4eow!  What you are reporting is what we have been hearing.  I think the "interim" notice confused some who thought this was the "official" notice, and that won't happen unit the Fall.

We go on vacation soon, and are hoping and praying that we won't have the dreaded brake problems with our '06 W-22.  :'(
 
Well, as I said I spoke with Alen Stegich, he is the national director of service for Navistar's Workhorse division. (IN short the top dog)

He said that the notice is so you know what to look for.. If you have the symptoms listed on the enclosed card (Sysops... I will attach a copy of the card and the interm letter. Feel free to delete them if you wish but as this is a SAFETY issue I'll attach them NOW instead of asking permission first)

IF you have problems they will replace with the same type of parts you have now,, Thus the problem MAY re-occure

Come fall when they get "New" parts in , (Different materials) they will do the proper recall and replace them problems or now
 

Attachments

  • FINAL-50901-C US INTERIM CUSTOMER LETTER.pdf
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John,

As an old boss of mine used to say, it's always best to ask for permission first than forgiveness later. Since you have a "top dog" contact, any chance you could ask for permission to post? The card specifically has a copyright notice on it. If we can't get permission, I'll need to pull it. TIA.
 
Thanks for posting the "interim notice" John....that's that main thing....the card isn't nearly as important.  :)
 
Well, took me at lot longer than I wanted to get to doing a brake inspection and minor brake service, but finally got it done this last weekend. I replaced the brake fluid, pulled all the wheels and inspected the rotors and pads, and most importantly, lubed those pesky brake caliper pins. Also changed out the oil for the front hubs, changed the engine oil and coolant and did the 13-point chassis lube. Lot's of fun and spent the better part of Saturday getting it all done. I will say that with the torque on the wheel lug nuts at 475 ft. lbs, using a large air-powered wrench was the only way to go. Sure wouldn't want to remove those things while stuck along the road... can you say 'hello, road service?'
 
Yeah that's why I broke down and spent the bucks for a 3 to 1 torque multiplier and a 250 foot pound torque wrench.

With the torque multiplier I only have to put  158 pounds of torque on the input to generate 475 foot pounds on the output.
Hopefully I will never need it on the road.
I may decide to do a brake job myself though and I could use it then.
 
Clay L said:
Yeah that's why I broke down and spent the bucks for a 3 to 1 torque multiplier and a 250 foot pound torque wrench.

With the torque multiplier I only have to put 158 pounds of torque on the input to generate 475 foot pounds on the output.
Hopefully I will never need it on the road.
I may decide to do a brake job myself though and I could use it then.
Click to expand...

I bought a really nice torque multiplier too, but maybe I wasn't using it correctly: I tried using it with a torque wrench that is capable of going to over 600 ft. lbs. but set it to approximately 158 ft. lbs. to get 475 ft. lbs. I had to turn it a quite a distance to get even one click and I had to repeat those steps repeatedly due to the wrench handle length meeting the ground. Watching the socket, I just didn't seem to be getting any movement, so I set the air torque wrench to '1', tightened first lug bolt, then tried the torque wrench set at 475 lbs. That setting didn't seem to do it, so I went to '2' and got a click off the torque wrench. I'm concerned that it might be over the 475 ft. lbs. but went with that setting on all the lug nuts for now... I'm trying to get some reference from the manufacturer... since I'm not much of a shadetree mechanic, anyone have any easy way to guesstimate the air wrench torque settings to something close for the needed 475 ft. lbs?

Thank you-
 
We just got home from a 3,500 mile trip to Florida, and we are happy to report that we had no brake problems.  Like I reported earlier, I had the brake fluid flushed before our trip, and maybe that did the trick.  We were in some very HOT temperatures, and our brakes worked fine, and never heated above 300 degrees (I used a laser pointed temperature gun when we stopped for gas).

I still haven't heard of a 2006 or above W-22 Workhorse Chassis having these brake problems, and never received an answer WHAT brake parts Workhorse changed in 2005.  ???
 
I have a 08 Bounder with a 2006 W22 under it Only a 1000 Miles but I did get a Voluntary
recall for the 06 w22.
No problems ye.
Roy

F.Y.I
 
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