Warning signs

[Daisy]

I agree that alcohol is just as "killing", but the topic was the "drug" war on our borders.  I, too, have an issue with alcohol and all it entails, but did not intend to unleash my thoughts on it here. 

No where in my diatribe did I advocate government control.  That would be pointless.  It's the "CITIZENS" themselves that are delusional in the need of something to take the pain away from their every day life.  Life IS tough, and they need to face that fact and get over it.  They and only they, are the only ones that can keep our borders safe......

Daisy

 

[pigman]

I agree that alcohol is just as "killing", but the topic was the "drug" war on our borders.  I, too, have an issue with alcohol and all it entails, but did not intend to unleash my thoughts on it here. 

No where in my diatribe did I advocate government control.  That would be pointless.  It's the "CITIZENS" themselves that are delusional in the need of something to take the pain away from their every day life.  Life IS tough, and they need to face that fact and get over it.  They and only they, are the only ones that can keep our borders safe......

Daisy

Hi Daisy ...  you seem to be lumping in all drug usage with recreational or self destruction use.  I assume you wouldn't stop a diabetic from shooting up insulin even if too much would be deadly.  I assume you wouldn't stop someone with a mental illness from his doctor from prescribing some medication (DRUG) that makes that person's life bearable.

My problem is having the Government dictate that only the medications IT approves of can be "Legal" ...  It is not the USE of drugs that causes problems .. it's the ABUSE of drugs...    How in the world could any of us think we could define if our fellow human beings are being delusional about pain they feel? 

 

[Lowell]

When I started this thread, I didn't want to start a political argument on legal vs non legal drugs. 

I was just shocked that the signs put up seem to suggest that the government is giving up, and just telling us that they are abandoning sections of the state.  So we are left to travel though it at our own risk.  Not something I ever expected to see!

But since this seems to be going political, maybe it's time to kill the thread.

 

[Mexray]

I,  for one am reluctant to get into the legalization of drugs argument - the known abuses of 'legal' alcohol make it all to clear to me that the legalization of other drugs will only add greatly to these civil and criminal problems...where do you stop - make MJ legal, then next there'll be a push to make cocaine legal, etc., etc...we as a society, have seen fit to draw the line with alcohol - IMHO extending this 'line' won't improve our quality of life here in the USA...

Changing the drug laws here in the USA won't address or improve the border violence with Mexico...As long as our Federal Govt. continue to allow peoples of any nationality to cross into the USA without proper documentation, we're being 'invaded' - like it or not - our citizen's jobs/business' are being taken by foreign nationals - forget the Bull Bleep about them taking jobs US citizens won't do - that's CRAP - I worked these types of jobs when I was younger - for example, high school kids are finding it harder that ever to find summer jobs - the 10% of work force that are out of work are finding it almost impossible to find jobs, with the 20 + million estimated ILLEGAL immigrants that have flooded our shores and mid-america!

We visited a large Co's dinner buffet recently, where we observed all the staff were foreign nationals, talking among themselves in a foreign tongue - no more Flo or Alice assisting you in these places...you can see this same situation in many types of business these days - what's become of our country!

How about another example...our 'treasure' is being depleted by foreign nationals that cross our borders to birth their offspring here, allowing the child to become a US citizen - what's the harm, you say - well first, they get their hospital care for free when admitted to the emergency room (guess who pays for that)...then these FN's (foreign Nationals) are coached on how to make the best of our 'system' - get on down to the nearest SSA office for monthly assistance for the new child - till they're 18 years old, I suspect, as they have no income here, or have family members working the underground (cash) economy!...No wonder the SSA is going broke!...There's of course other State programs for these 'poor' newborns - again guess who's paying for all that service for hundreds of thousands of these children!

I could go on for great lengths about the ramifications that effect all US citizens with regard to the flood of foreign nationals - I just pray that no terrorists with dirty bomb credentials are among them!...can you imagine how quick the border would become transfixed if it were proven this were the case - The hell with the 'wall' (unless we electrify it!) , lets dig a BIG, deep moat - now that sounds like a stimulus package!

For all the bleeding hearts out there, let's ask ourselves just how many illegal foreign nationals should we 'tolerate' and 'finance' here on our sovereign soil?...20 million, 40 million, 100 million - and at what cost to we citizen taxpayers?  I think my tipping point has just about been reached - how about yours?

Ray

 

[Hfx_Cdn]

    Mexray I guess after 200 years this no longer applies.  Sure glad that your predecessors weren't in charge when my ancestors came to North America (Canada & USA)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of you teamming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" 

    Read some history, immigration and diversity are in large part why your country is so great and has prospered, while closed counties floundered.  Be careful what you ask for, because you are likely to get it and in the end you (the USA) will suffer.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

>> Mexray I guess after 200 years this no longer applies.
====
He covered a lot in previous posts -- specifically what no longer applies. Please use quotes . . .

>> Read some history, immigration and diversity are in large part why your country is so great and has prospered, while closed counties floundered.
====
Do you refer legal or illegal immigration?

 

[threeful]

1st of all:

1.  The drugs being smuggled are not just marijuana...There is some money in Mary Jane but the drug cartels are smuggling cocaine, heroine, etc. That is where the money is.

2.  If someone is sick and in pain there are legal drugs that can be taken to alleviate the pain.  This medical use argument is BS.

3.  We spend billions of taxpayers dollars to "save" drug addicts.  Why legalize it so we have to pay more.  Pennsylvania has just created a new government office,  Dept of Dug and Alcohol Programs!!!  Now we are paying for oversight of drug programs for addicts!!! 

4.  There is not one good argument for granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens.  If they want amnesty give it to them but before they can become a US citizen (and vote), condition it on, they must go through the normal immigration process, learn to read and write English, begin paying taxes immediately, and not be afforded welfare benefits until they gain citizenship.  How many politicians would sign on to that???  Not many I suspect since they would be barred from voting!!

 

[Bob Buchanan]

FYI, those signs were requested by the local rangers.

Did you mean, local ranchers? Actually, they have been asking for help for quite awhile to no avail -- aside from the one that was killed by an illegal.

AZ governor, Jan Brewer, tells us the signs were all she got from her visit to DC, vs. her hopes of getting help w/the increased crime rates due to their open border problem. It "does" appear a bit strange that after a year or so of problems and complaints to Washington, the signs suddenly appeared after the Governors visit to Washington . . . 

 

[seilerbird]

2.  If someone is sick and in pain there are legal drugs that can be taken to alleviate the pain.  This medical use argument is BS.

I ran a medical marijuana clinic for many years. Your ignorance on the subject is astounding. AIDS patients and chemotherapy patients get such stomach nausea they can't eat, drink or take pills with vomiting it all up. Marijuana relaxes the stomach muscles and allows them to eat, drink and take pills like a normal person. An AIDS patient who can't take pills is the walking dead. Marijuana allows them to actually function as a normal human being. There are no legal drugs that can do this. I sure hope you don't get AIDS or cancer and become in need of some pot. Or maybe your loved one, or your parents, or your kids. Then what are you going to do. Vomit for a week straight or smoke some pot?

 

[Tom]

Folks, let's not make this a personal issue and cause this discussion to go downhill. Thanks.

 

[BernieD]

Did you mean, local ranchers? Actually, they have been asking for help for quite awhile to no avail -- aside from the one that was killed by an illegal.

No it was the ranGers. The ranchers have had this problem for over 50 years. We have a friend who grew up on a ranch in Nacho, AZ near the border and they had to have flood lights to keep away the traffic. A lot of people (both parties) in Washington have ignored the problem for a very long time. And there is an indication that the rancher that was killed and whose death started this whole mess was killed by someone he knew. There is no evidence indicating that he was killed by an illegal.

 

[seilerbird]

Folks, let's not make this a personal issue and cause this discussion to go downhill. Thanks.

I'm sorry if I said the wrong thing Tom. I did not say he was ignorant, I said he was ignorant about the subject. I didn't appreciate him calling medical marijuana BS. I will be more careful in the future.

 

[Tom]

Tom, my comment was meant generically. But, if the shoe fits ...

In this medium, it's all too easy for folks to misunderstand the written word, and to respond in kind. Things can go downhill in a hurry from there.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

>> No it was the ranGers.
====
Do you have a reference for that, Bernie? The AZ Governor seems to disagree. And if the Rangers have asked for such a sign, do you not think it strange that the signs suddenly appeared just after the Governor returned from Washington?

>> A lot of people (both parties) in Washington have ignored the problem for a very long time.
====
Yep -- both parties is correct. Was very disappointed in how McCain went along with open borders because he wanted those votes, and now that he is up for reelection in the AZ senate race, he all of a sudden is "for" closing the borders prior to reform. And, of course, votes are driving the current administrations strategies on immigration reform - for November and 2012.

>> And there is an indication that the rancher that was killed and whose death started this whole mess was killed by someone he knew. There is no evidence indicating that he was killed by an illegal.
====
"AN" indication? 

Again, do you have a reference. My 1,000 or so indicating it was most likely an illegal can be reviewed by simply googling, "AZ rancher murdered".

BTW, this "alleged" illegal even shot the guys dog -- before going back to Mexico.

 

[Wendy]

There are illegal immigrants and legal immigrants and people need to be very specific which group they're referring to. Also be careful when using the term "foreign national" which, at it's simplest, only means a person who is not a U.S. citizen.

As for building a moat or putting up fences, those things trap us inside even more than they keep others out.

Wendy

 

[BernieD]

>>Do you have a reference for that, Bernie?
====

Try this.

By the way, our governor proclaimed that most of the illegals crossing the border are smugglers, murderers, thieves, etc. That has been debunked here

>>"AN" indication? 

Again, do you have a reference. My 1,000 or so indicating it was most likely an illegal can be reviewed by simply googling, "AZ rancher murdered".

No I don't have a reference other than there hasn't been any proof presented about who the killer may be. Your 1,000 or so references have no proof either, just a lot of conjecture pumping up the positions that they support. If you wish to discuss this further, lets take this off the forum, it is not the place for this.

 

[Hfx_Cdn]

    Wendy, the concept of "legal or illegal" I believe is less than 100 years old.  I know for sure that Canadians and Americans could cross the border and find a job until the US closed its borders requiring work visas in 1921.  I'm not sure what the law was with Mexicans, but given the fluid border I'd surmise it was open until the same time.  One of the things I learned at the Irish Memorial in Quebec last month was that the majority of the Irish Famine emigrants came through the St Laurence, were quarantined at Gross Ile, then went directly into the US to places like Boston, New York, or even Chicago.  It was these same emigrants that later attacked Canada as the Fenians, and actually were instrumental in the Canadian provinces uniting, so 150 years ago we had our own problems with armed raiders crossing into shoot p our country.

Ed

 

[Lowell]

Bernie, from your "try this" source:

"The new border signs didn't originate with the Obama administration even though they were set up by the federal government"

Wouldn't that suggest that the federal government is in agreement with posting the signs and that the federal government is not taking responsibility for our safety?

 

[Wendy]

    Wendy, the concept of "legal or illegal" I believe is less than 100 years old.

Actually, it dates to at least 1882 with the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Wendy

 

[Hfx_Cdn]

    Wendy that reminds of looking at the 1851 census for Amadeus County CA (where t6he Mother Load gold mines were), we were looking for an ancestor of Donna's (we found him) who came there from NB. The census records showed that the county was over 75% chinese, must have been brought in to work the claims, and then lead to the Exclusion act that you reference when the ore ran out.

Ed