What is more affordable? Boondocking with Generator OR campground fees?

[x11joe]

I'm trying to decide how I want to live out my next 2 years in the most cost effective way so I'm putting together a list of what I know and am curious for your opinions on what is the best move to make for my situation.

My Living Situation:
[list type=decimal]
[*]I will live with my Fianc?.
[*]I am a programmer, so I need to work from my laptop and a 2nd monitor for at least 8 hours every day.  My Fianc? also needs to work from her laptop.
[*]I also need reliable internet for at least 12 hours a day for work and entertainment for the Fianc? and me.
[*]I am currently starting a new business but I make $0 currently and will for a while until March probably.  Because I have literally no monthly income, I applied for food stamps and got it, so I got food taken care of about $180/month at the moment.
[*]I will need to run the A/C occasionally and the Electric Heater at night to stay warm.
[*]My Fianc? is extremely sensitive to sound and light, so a noisy generator will be a problem unless I can find a quiet one.
[*]Despite my financial situation, I actually do have some money to afford a decent generator, travel trailer and truck thanks to my ability to loan from the bank of parents and selling my old car and my Fianc?'s car.  I feel crappy for asking them, but it's the quickest way to get started and they won't charge me interest while I work to get my business going.
[*]I plan to travel to Arizona in January and Florida in February then back to California after that and probably stay in one spot for a rather long term period 3 months at least.
[*]I will occasionally take on a programming job via freelancing to pay for gas and other minor bills, so will my Fianc?.  I need to limit these jobs though so that I can properly focus on the business.
[/list]

These are the costs I see with Boondocking:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Sewage removal (? how do you do this boondocking ? How much does this cost to do and how often do I need to do it?).  I heard in Quartzsite Arizona there is people who will do this for you for a price?
[*]Water (I can get this with food stamps) or somewhere for free hopefully...
[*]Propane Costs? (Would a travel trailer fridge use propane? How often do I need to refill this?)
[*]Fuel for Generator for Electric (? not sure how much this cost to run daily?)
[*]FreedomPop MyFi Type Wireless Internet (Free as long as I don't go over 500mb, but I will sometimes, so lets say $10/month.  Appears to be reliable enough for my purposes in my testing so far as long as I'm near a good cell phone tower.
[*]Expensive investments in batteries ($250 per AMD battery I think, and may only last a year.).  I think the batteries are necessary? I assume I use the generator to keep my batteries charged and try to run things off the batteries?
[*]Expensive Sine Wave Inverter to run A/C appliances from battery? ($1000-$2000) initial investment.  I have heard some people say modified square wave inverters are 'ok', but I'm worried with all the conflicting information about them possibly damaging devices like my laptop which I can NOT afford to be damaged.  I could of course just run the generator non-stop to generate the A/C power and avoid the entire battery situation and inverter all together.  Not sure if that is a good idea though...
[/list]

These are the costs I see with campgrounds:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Renting Land ($300-$450/month!!)
[*]Sewage (usually included through a hookup I believe)
[*]Electric & Water ($50/month extra usually)
[*]Propane? (Do they even supply this??)
[*]Internet (High Speed & Usually included... I think?)
[/list]

Generic Travel Trailer RV/Car Costs
[list type=decimal]
[*]Truck Insurance (not sure yet)
[*]Travel Trailer Insurance (no idea yet)
[*]Travel Trailer & Car Maintenance ($1000 yearly most likely... I think?)
[/list]

I'm not sure what is more cost effective for my situations since I don't know realistically how much fuel a generator uses for the type of generator I will need for my situation.

The way I see it if boondocking is significantly less expensive than $450/month then (say $200/month or less), than boondocking I think will be worth while for me to invest into.

Any help is appreciated in making the decision.

 

[DearMissMermaid]

Looking over your situation...

I would say get a workamping deal that has Wifi too. (Some do, some don't). Basically you work part-time and earn the rent and utilities to park your rig. Launch your business from there. Once it gets profitable, then start moving around and traveling. Zipping around from Arizona to Florida then California is going to have a lots of costs (gas and maintenance) you won't be working if you are flying down the highways.

Many of the workamping situations are only 15-20-25 hours per week per couple, it varies widely as do the duties. If they don't provide internet, then you can have super high speed wired in while you are parked and workamping. Some workamping deals are short term, others are indefinite.

THe beauty of workamping is the basics are met and you're not running down the highways burning up gas and maintenance money, but you have full hookups and a camp site.

 

[Lou Schneider]

I'm trying to decide how I want to live out my next 2 years in the most cost effective way so I'm putting together a list of what I know and am curious for your opinions on what is the best move to make for my situation.

My Living Situation:
[list type=decimal]
[*]I will live with my Fianc?.
[*]I am a programmer, so I need to work from my laptop and a 2nd monitor for at least 8 hours every day.  My Fianc? also needs to work from her laptop.
[*]I also need reliable internet for at least 12 hours a day for work and entertainment for the Fianc? and me.
[*]I am currently starting a new business but I make $0 currently and will for a while until March probably.  Because I have literally no monthly income, I applied for food stamps and got it, so I got food taken care of about $180/month at the moment.[/list]

Food stamps are locally run, no?  Doesn't sound very compatible with a mobile lifestyle since you'd have to re-apply and re-qualify with the local agency any time you move to a new location.

• I will need to run the A/C occasionally and the Electric Heater at night to stay warm.

Most RV furnaces make heat from propane, only using battery power to run the circulating fan.  Running an electric heater or the air conditioner can add 50% to the amount of fuel being used by the generator.

• My Fianc? is extremely sensitive to sound and light, so a noisy generator will be a problem unless I can find a quiet one.
• Despite my financial situation, I actually do have some money to afford a decent generator, travel trailer and truck thanks to my ability to loan from the bank of parents and selling my old car and my Fianc?'s car.  I feel crappy for asking them, but it's the quickest way to get started and they won't charge me interest while I work to get my business going.
• I plan to travel to Arizona in January and Florida in February then back to California after that and probably stay in one spot for a rather long term period 3 months at least.
• I will occasionally take on a programming job via freelancing to pay for gas and other minor bills, so will my Fianc?.  I need to limit these jobs though so that I can properly focus on the business.

These are the costs I see with Boondocking:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Sewage removal (? how do you do this boondocking ? How much does this cost to do and how often do I need to do it?).  I heard in Quartzsite Arizona there is people who will do this for you for a price?
[*]Water (I can get this with food stamps) or somewhere for free hopefully... [/list]

How long you can boondock without having to dump the tanks or take on water depends on how well you conserve.  Use water normally, take regular showers every day and you'll run out of fresh water and have to empty the waste tanks every day or two.

Take Navy showers (wet down, turn off the water while you soap up, then a quick rinse), be frugal with dishwashing and other uses and you may be able to go several days to a week between dumps.

To dump, you'll either have to move the RV to a dump station or otherwise transport the tank contents there.  Figure about $10 - 20 per trip.

It's sometimes easier just to check into a full service park for a night and use their facilities instead of making a separate trip to a dump station.  Dump our tanks into the sewer fitting at the site.  Fill your water tank from the site's water spigot and use the day to catch up on chores that are harder to do when you're boondocking and trying to conserve.  Use the park's electricity for a day instead of running the generator and make sure you leave with a full charge on the batteries.  Run the vacuum cleaner over the carpets, get caught up on interior cleaning, dump the trash in the park's bin,  do your laundry in the park's laundromat, etc.

Then when you're caught up on everything go back out for another week of boondocking.

• Propane Costs? (Would a travel trailer fridge use propane? How often do I need to refill this?)
• Fuel for Generator for Electric (? not sure how much this cost to run daily?)

Propane costs are easy to figure.  Round numbers, figure about $3 for a gallon of propane.  One gallon will run your furnace for 3-4 hours, the flame on your water heater for about 6 hours, a stove burner for 15-20 hours or your refrigerator for a couple of weeks.

Obviously, the amount of time you run your furnace will be the biggest factor determining your propane costs.  Plan on buying a tank of propane about once a month ($30-40) if you're just running the fridge, water heater and stove, or as often as a couple of times a week if you're running the furnace constantly in very cold weather.

Generators use about 1/3 - 1/2 gallon of gas per hour.  If you need to run one 12 hours a day, you'll use 4-6 gallons per day.  That's $16-24 at $4 per gallon (round numbers).

Then there's the cost of maintaining the generator.  Oil changes every 100 hours.  Air filter, gas filter, spark plug, general cleaning of dirt and debris every 200 hours.  Not to mention having to replace the generator when it wears out.  Figure an hour of operation is equivalent to putting about 50 miles on a car.  Running a generator 12 hours a day for a month is about the same as putting 18,000 miles on a car.

• FreedomPop MyFi Type Wireless Internet (Free as long as I don't go over 500mb, but I will sometimes, so lets say $10/month.  Appears to be reliable enough for my purposes in my testing so far as long as I'm near a good cell phone tower.
• Expensive investments in batteries ($250 per AMD battery I think, and may only last a year.).  I think the batteries are necessary? I assume I use the generator to keep my batteries charged and try to run things off the batteries?
• Expensive Sine Wave Inverter to run A/C appliances from battery? ($1000-$2000) initial investment.  I have heard some people say modified square wave inverters are 'ok', but I'm worried with all the conflicting information about them possibly damaging devices like my laptop which I can NOT afford to be damaged.  I could of course just run the generator non-stop to generate the A/C power and avoid the entire battery situation and inverter all together.  Not sure if that is a good idea though...

Whew. That's enough for now.... 

 

[x11joe]

Thanks for taking the time to answer I really appreciate it! I know that was a lot for you to write.  It seems I have a lot more studying to do and money to save up.  Thank you again very much.  I think I still have questions but not sure what they are yet, but I'll put it here when I'm ready.  Just letting you know I got your message.

 

[johnandcarol]

If you have no income note that a trip from CA to FL will probably cost about $1,000 in fuel each way.  $2,000 spent on fuel would pay for a campground with full hookups and wifi for four months and save generator and inverter purchases.  Even if you move a short distance once a month for a change of venue. You won't have to buy all the stuff you're talking about.

 

[SeilerBird]

When you are boondocking you have no shore power, water or sewage. This means running a generator for a few hours every day and taking a trip to a dump station once a week. The whole problem with running a gen a few hours every day is more than just the gas and driving to the gas station to fill up, it also means listening to a generator and your neighbors have to listen to a generator. If you run your gen two hours a day and use a gallon of gas every day and going to a dump station once a week that ends up costing as much as a cheap RV park.

 

[vanbuskirk]

This might come off rude but if you have the funds to purchase a TT, truck and the gas money to travel cross country you should be able to come-up with the funds to feed yourselves.  I am going to quit before I write something that I regret....  you really don't want to hear my suggestions.

 

[captsteve]

This might come off rude but if you have the funds to purchase a TT, truck and the gas money to travel cross country you should be able to come-up with the funds to feed yourselves.  I am going to quit before I write something that I regret....  you really don't want to hear my suggestions.

Vanbuskirk,

Allow me to refer you to the byline in red at the top of every page. This is not the place for comments such as this. The OP is asking fair questions and trying to come up with a plan that will allow him to fulfill a dream and start a business. One gains knowledge by asking questions and he is getting solid advice.

I'm sure you were never in a situation like that...

 

[dan680fl]

x11JOE
Let me first say I am excited for you! You seem to be doing your homework and by having an RV, I think you would be one up on your chance to succeed. I won't address your technical questions because there are forum members with far more experience then myself...but I do want to say; Not all of us Rvers are well off and in our retirement years. Several years ago I was a whistle blower in the aviation industry and as a result became homeless. Living in a tent at Larry & Penny campground just south of Miami, Florida I new hunger and the feeling of helplessness. I slowly worked out of my situation and found a good revenue source on the road. I have been out here for 6+ years and making a healthy income. All bills are paid, paid cash for a Florida home (used more for a base to do work on my unit) and I am building a comfortable retirement account. I am now an RV addict and refuse to go into rehab...I hope you find your goals and happiness as I have.

 

[Tom Hoffman]

A real life perspective for you. 

My wife and I lived in St Paul NE at a small campground with full hookups,  water sewer and electrical (30 & 50 amp) for $200 per month.  We have Millenicom.com HotSpot 20 gig for INTERNET $70 per month.  We were comfortable and we ran the A/C as needed.  You would not be able to live there in the winter.  We lived for 4 months in Lugoff SC for $350 per month full hookups and same INTERNET plan. 

If you look for older camp grounds, you can live very frugally.  Out west where we are now,  most of the CG charge separately for electric. 

We also have a DISH Tailgater system for TV and that is $65 per month.

Those are our total monthly recurring expenses.

Tom...

 

[John From Detroit]

The last time I was in Quartsite, two weeks, last half of jan, I used around 50 gallons of gas for the Genny each week..  Now it's true I was feeding my neighbor power due to a failed genny on their rig, but at current prices that is 150/week for generator

The campground I'll stay at next week will cost me 84 bucks

The campground I'm at now,, costs me about 3.00/night. on the average (Membership Campground and that's my dues, plus a whole lot of math).

 

[captsteve]

There is lots of ways to do it on the cheap. All you have to do is try.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

Boondocking for me is the cheaper way to go. But that depends . . .

My electric usage can be very high. I do run a business as a SW product developer so am running a desktop, a laptop, and tablet most all day and half the night at times. I do help desk via remote desktop so need good connection most all the time. If I sat out on the desert in Quartzsite running my 5000 Onan genset most of the time I would soon go broker than I already am. There are many nice RV parks between there and Las Vegas that would be cheaper for me.

However, as I began boondocking more and more, the investment in a smaller genset became the key. My Honda 2000 will run for 4 to 6 hours on a gallon of gas - and unless needing A/C, cuts my overall boondocking costs exponentially. That plus I add more solar as much as my budget will allow. A 1000 Honda will run most 40 or 50amp chargers just fine, and will run for days on a gallon.

There are many ways to become even more frugal. For example, when in Boondocking mode, via power strips and breakers, I am only ever using that power that needs to be on at the time. Have even isolated all the phantom loads such as the power a TV uses even though turned off - so when not in need of the TV, my TV is totally off. If in need of A/C for a few hours, I grab my fully equipped laptop and head for any of tons of outlets offering A/C and free Wi-Fi. Today I'm doing just the opposite during these lower than normal temps in NCal. No need to run my own propane and/or electric when McDonald's, IHop, Denny's, and tons of other outlets in most any area I am in welcome me with open arms, free Wi-Fi, heat, and great dollar menus.

Booddockers are survivors - and as such figure out how to avoid RV parks as much as possible. If anyone wants to learn how this works, come to the RV forum Rally in Quartzsite to see how world class booddockers find it cheaper than living in an RV park. Most everything I have learned about boondocking, I learned while attending this rally . . .

 

[ArdraF]

Quartzsite to see how world class boondockers find it cheaper than living in an RV park

My goodness yes.  Just driving around the BLM lands is an education!  Windmills, solar panels carefully aimed toward the sun, outdoor solar showers.  You name it and you'll probably see it at Quartzsite.  Some people are very resourceful.

ArdraF

 

[warsw]

I do a fair amount of boondocking/camping during the year and it can be done fairly cheap. The TT I use for camping holds 46 gal of water and that and the other holding tanks will last about a week. The holding tanks can be dumped and fresh water filled for about ($5.00). I run the generator about 5 hours a day to keep the batteries up. I usually run it in the morning and evening (fixing breakfast/dinner). I go through about 5 gal of gas a week ($20.00). When winter camping I go through about 7 gal of propane a week ($21.00)

Water=$5.00 week........................$20.00 a month
Gas for generator=$20.00 week....$80.00 a month
Propane=$21.00 week...................$84.00 a month

Total..............................................$184.00 a month

During this time we do not shower in the trailer (sponge bath only)
I have a Yamaha 2000 which has an econ-o mode so it is not very thirsty.
This is just my wife and I so we can control things fairly easy.
The TT I use for camping is only 17?. A larger TT will probably cost a little more to run.

Boondocking can be done fairly inexpensive but for long term I'm not sure it would be worth the inconvenience. For about an extra $200.00 a month it would be a lot more comfortable living in a RV Park IMHO.

 

[terry735001]

for me is Boondocking with all solar i dont even have a Generator any more

you can find alot of your solar system on line on CL at low cost

if you go this way do not run you labtop on a MD inverter  go with a SW inverter

 

[SeilerBird]

Water=$5.00 week........................$20.00 a month
Gas for generator=$20.00 week....$80.00 a month
Propane=$21.00 week...................$84.00 a month
Total..............................................$184.00 a month

There are RV parks that charge around $200 a month plus electricity. And they have Wifi and a shower you can use everyday. And they have an address for you so you can receive your mail.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

for me is Boondocking with all solar i dont even have a Generator any more

you can find alot of your solar system on line on CL at low cost

if you go this way do not run you labtop on a MD inverter  go with a SW inverter

    There are tons of boon docking folk in Quartzsite that pay the $180 for the full winter season - and depend solely on solar. The $180 includes dump and fresh water plus dumpsters for trash. Some add a Honda 1000 genset for those rainy days. As it's BLM land, rangers patrol to make sure the posted rules are adhered to.

At an RV Forum rally about 5 or so years ago I met an 89 year old young man. I was doing an evening photo w/a tripod setup - and he wandered over to chat. Said he was interested in getting deeper into photography and wanted to know if I minded him watching and asking a few questions.

Anyway - he was in an older about 24' Air Stream. The roof was literally covered with panels mounted to lean into the Southern sky, plus his pick up had a panel on the cab roof and two leaning against a cactus by the rig. Inside he had a monster inverter and an incredible sound system and several computers. His favorite thing to do was to download music - mostly classical but enjoyed country and pop as well. He was both a Mozart and an Elvis big time fan.

Met another couple in Laughlin that did Casino Parking lots. He was 87 or so and she was 92. And they managed with solar alone as well. His rig was a late 90's Country Coach. He told me he has rarely used his built in genset. He also had a Honda 2000 that he had so far never used. Very interesting couple. He transferred ownership of his houses to his children year before last - said he had no use for them compared to their life on the road. Their days included the rounds of all the perks given to seniors in Laughlin and Bullhead. For example, each day at 2PM you would find them behind a dollar menu meal at McDonald's. In the evenings all the chairs they placed in the shade of their rig was filled with neighbors. He said that all sure beat sitting in a lonesome house somewhere every night. But again, only solar, no gensets - unless the heat later in the spring got real ugly.

BTW, this is the fellow that painted his new Honda 2000 about the ugliest shade of brown you can ever imagine - and did a purposely sloppy job applying it. His theory was that someone would steal a bright red one like mine and by pass his ugly brown one.

 

[jje1960]

Looking over your situation, I can't imagine saving anything (even with various quality of life factors) with running on a generator.  Find the cheapest RV site possible and possibly save by having to either haul water or move to dump but full time electric seems the very basic of necessity that is necessary.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

Looking over your situation, I can't imagine saving anything (even with various quality of life factors) with running on a generator. 

I most likely use more electric than the OP would (did you read my earlier post?) -- and find boon docking less expensive. There "are" $200 and less plus electric parks around, but staying one year round is usually not the most ideal location to stay vs. the slight incremental cost of boon docking, if any and it's less for me. The later gives many more locations and travel opportunities. I know of one $200/month plus electric park that requires at least 10 miles to the closest commercial outlet of any kind. Note that the OP will be travel between FL and CA then doing 3 months stays.

In the entire area around Sacramento and the Bay Area - or, moving up to and around Reno, the cheapest parks to be found are $350 - and there aren't many of them. Plus, the last one I stayed in was awakened several nights a week by police helicopters hovering looking for fleeing drug dealers and buyers.

The key is a small genset and solar . . .