Who doesn't like long, hot steamy showers ?

[Houston Remodeler]

Our 2015 Starcraft TT came with the factory 6 gallon hot water heater (HWH) with the usual "feels like 9 gallons" claim. Y'all know the drill; No washing dishes while showering, Quick showers, spacing the showers to let the HWH make more hot water....  I shopped for factory made RV gas fired on demand HWH and found they run about $1200 and had to be professionally installed. I am too cheap thrifty to spend two grand for hot water.

Then I had another McGyver moment - why not add our existing Ecco Temp 5 On demand hot water heater to the TT to have endless hot water?

The new install works excellently. Last weekend we hosted 12 people showering (they are in tents) with no want for hot water all weekend. They did have to bring their own towels.

What we did-

1- Install a diverter tee to the stock incoming cold water supply pipe just before the stock HWH. This tee sends the cold water supply either to the on demand or to the stock heater, making the mod reversible.
2- Installed another (regular) tee just after the diverter tee to bring the water back from the on demand. Since the diverter tee will not allow backflow, the second tee doesn't need to be special.
3- Ran pex from the tees to the on demand heater at the rear of the TT, which hangs on the outside ladder, keeping the heater a few inches away from the trailer siding.
4- At the ends of the pipes outside are self shut off, brass, hose style quick connect fittings. These fittings also act as valves, preventing backflow, pipe drainage, and makes the mod reversible.
5- We made jumper hoses from the quick connect fittings to and from the on demand.
6- The on demand uses a typical 20 pound LP (high pressure) tank which also serves our outdoor fire pit. The TT has low pressure LP so we can't use the TT gas to run the on demand.
7- To keep the wind from blowing out the flame* on the on demand and add a rain shield, I installed a typical galvanized, off the shelf from home depot, 4x10" rectangle to 4" round galvanized duct, topped with a class B roof cap. These caps are designed to prevent pilot blow out. Our weekend was very windy and we had zero problems.
8- Dis-assembly is as simple as the quick connects for the 2 water hoses and the LP to the portable tank. We toss the whole thing in the rear storage compartment on the same corner.
9- To keep the fittings on the outside / underside of the TT clean, there is a short jumper hose which replaces the on demand while the TT is in transport or storage. It loops around the nearby bumper to keep it from sagging or pinching.

The on demand is excellent at bringing hose water up to a much higher temperature and acts as a pre-heater to the stock HWH. The factory HWH is excellent at topping off the temperature to nearly scalding, which is how I like my showers. Use of cold water was necessary as we had endless, more-than-hot-enough water to take showers as long and as many as needed. There were times when people were in line using the shower one after another. We washed dishes at the same time. Everyone was happy.

*The Ecco Temp LP HWH's are battery powered, self igniting flame when they sense water flowing. However, when its windy, the flame can be blown out, shutting down the water heating but not the water flow. To restart the flame, either the water needs to be stopped and re-started OR the unit turned off and back on by means of the rocker switch on the bottom of the HWH. Thus the attention to wind is important as you're in the shower nekkid when the unit is running. This usually is a really bad time for the HWH to stop working. The addition of the HVAC adapter and the B vent cap eliminated the fear of the flame being blown out.

 

[jdq1986]

Excellent work! 

I did something similar but much less high tech.  I just put a bypass with a ball valve around my water pump with the hot water line, allowing me to recirculate hot water into the fresh tank until it reaches about 90 degrees, accomplishing that "preheated" condition you mentioned.  However while adequate for my family the supply is not endless like yours, only about a hundred gallons.  And mine requires a little more effort to get there, whereas yours is ready pretty much all the time, I just didn't have an on demand hwh to put in.

 

[arch7]

Awesome way to go!!

I used a $120 generic on demand HWH in an old motorhome I had that worked fantastic. Those $1200 ones are a gimmic.

 

[Houston Remodeler]

Pic of the outside before we added the braided SS hoses. We also upgraded to brass disconnects with shut offs to prevent getting a hot shower when disconnecting

 

[Houston Remodeler]

Pic of the bypass and plumbing

 

[BruceinFL]

I don't like long steamy showers. They are a total waste of water...a precious resource, especially in some dry areas of the country.

 

[SeilerBird]

Who doesn't like long, hot steamy showers ?

Me, I lived in the southwest too long and now that I am in Florida and showering in the RV park clubhouse I can't spend more than two or three minutes in the shower. Water is too precious to be wasting like that.

 

[lynnmor]

Campgrounds are like a little communes, where everyone should do their share to keep costs low.  Out of respect for others, one should be conservative with water, electric and sewer use.  Everyone is charged the same but some push up prices and others are paying for the gluttons.  Those long, hot showers really push up the cost of utilities.

 

[wackymac]

Neither my wife nor I nor our two cats like long hot steamy showers.  Like the previous posters, it's a waste of money and resources.  Besides, now I know why our motorhome is so cheap to operate; it only has a water heater, not a hot water heater.  If it had hot water there would be no need to heat it.

 

[BroRobin]

HOUSTON... Sounds like some folks have a problem. 
I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  So here goes mine...
The last few folks that posted on this topic seem to be giving the original poster more grief than he deserves. Why not give him an "Atta-boy" for the work and technique, instead of your ecological superior outlook, or at least combine the two.
I wish I had stopped reading after the last positive post. 
Just my opinion, of which I guess I'm entitled to.

BTW, Houston you did a great job at the task that you set out to do.  We've not had a camper with a shower until now, (been using the camp bath-house), so at this point I can't relate to the lack of hot water heater.  Yes, I did say HOT WATER HEATER.  :

 

[Rene T]

I don't know if the poster has a propane/electric water heater. If he does, you can run both at the same time so that it recovers faster.

 

[Houston Remodeler]

The reasons to add the on demand heater were many;

1- With my tough beard, I like to shave in the shower. After body and hair washing, I'd get through about half my face before running out  of hot water. Quite annoying.

2- I had the Ecco Temp setting around the workshop from the PopUp days.

3- I thoroughly enjoy figuring out the problem, researching the components, refining the idea, and executing an elegant installation.

4- If anyone else finds the information valuable, I'm glad to share.

If folks want to take navy showers, God bless 'em. I'll reduce my carbon foot print somewhere else.

 

[grashley]

Great Job, Houston!!!

I grew up in Cincinnati.  The sign over the urinal said, "Flush twice.  Louisville needs the water."

 

[jdq1986]

Great Job, Houston!!!

I grew up in Cincinnati.  The sign over the urinal said, "Flush twice.  Louisville needs the water."

Brings up an interesting point.  Saving water in one area does not magically deliver it to another area.  Take a long shower or a short shower, the next county over has no more or less water because of it. 

 

[HappyWanderer]

Brings up an interesting point.  Saving water in one area does not magically deliver it to another area.  Take a long shower or a short shower, the next county over has no more or less water because of it. 

Or as I always said, water comes out of the hole in the front yard and goes down the hole in the back yard.

 

[kwbush]

I don't like long steamy showers. They are a total waste of water...a precious resource, especially in some dry areas of the country.

Who doesn't like long, hot steamy showers ?

Me, I lived in the southwest too long and now that I am in Florida and showering in the RV park clubhouse I can't spend more than two or three minutes in the shower. Water is too precious to be wasting like that.

Hey guys, your entitled to an opinion... but it's just that... kinda like colons (anatomical that is) everyone has one and they all smell the same...
just sayin'  :

Oh, by the way, anyone remember their 7th grade science? "Matter (which water is) can neither be created OR destroyed... only changed." So, there is actually no waste of WATER - just the effort and expense to deliver it to the end user...  once again, just sayin'  ???

Keith

 

[scottydl]

Quite an intuitive installation by the OP ... thanks for sharing the project details!  I kinda doubt your occasional enjoyment of a longer hot shower will substantially impact water usage/prices as a whole, for the campground you are staying in or any other dynamic.

I understand the importance of conservation in some contexts, but if we all wanted to be minimalists... we might be camping in lean-to's built with sticks and leaves, and would not be discussing the comforts of RV living. 

 

[DearMissMermaid]

I am not in favor of wasting resources either.

It's great you could install this wonderful gadget and have endless heated hot water.

It is a huge use of water and electricity to constantly insist on long hot steamy showers for everyday living. You must get super dirty in your day to day activities.

I lived overseas and on boats afloat where water was super precious and very expensive. Sometimes fresh water was impossible to obtain! If your cistern or water tanks ran dry, tough luck! The next rain would refill it. Most isalnds did have trucking companies to bring out more water, but sometimes they couldn't get the water to purchase either, so nothing to buy. Other times the cost of a truck load of water would skyrocket so that only the very wealthy could buy it.

It seems on the islands where water was a precious resource,  everyone was in agreement to be frugal on their showers (and other water uses) and still smell nice and clean. Ironically I lived in a country where deodorants aren't used either and I don't recall any stinky people in spite of frugal showering.

However, when I managed a beach house in a far flung location that often catered to American tourists, we had to keep constantly raising our rates because of the huge amount of wasted water and the large costs associated with maintaining water. We had to pay trucks to bring in more and more water to accommodate many of the American tourists. We tried everything in the world to try to get the tourists to be more economical on their water usage, but mostly it fell on deaf ears.

Also, many didn't realize that even after they flew home, we had new guests checking in a few hours later, and of course the new guests would like some water in the tanks, not be told that sorry, the last guests used all their water and all of yours too!

Many felt like they had paid for their vacation and it better include long hot steamy showers no matter what loops hoops and problems we went through to constantly have more and more water delivered for the cisterns.

Have you ever been in a campground or RV park when the water goes off? I am amazed at how many people parade around complaining bitterly about this. Many have tanks in their rigs, but the tanks are empty. So if the camp water is shut off for whatever reason, they have no backup.

Even now the camp I am in, experiences wild fluctuations in water pressure.

Back in the 60's there was a campground on the beach where I went then and still go today. At that time the campsites didn't have individual water hookups. The public shower was outside on a pull chain and it didn't have hot water either. Campers were expected to shower in their swimsuits during the warm part of the day.

Sometimes there was a long line of other campers waiting to shower, so while you showered, you had an audience. It seems folks had very little trouble learning to shower quick and economically.  ;D

I had lived overseas about 10 years when I came to visit USA and I took a shower at a friend's lavish house. I realized I had been in there a good long 3 minutes and afterwards I apologized profusely for getting carried away. They were of course greatly amused and explained they took 30 minute showers. They thought I was pretty silly.

 

[kdbgoat]

I like to be as clean as possible, but still don't take long hot showers unless I have body aches, then I do enjoy the heat. Generally if the aches are that bad, and I'm in the sticks and bricks, I just soak in the tub. To me taking a long shower not only wastes water that I have to pay to heat, it wastes my time. I could be doing better things with my time.

 

[scottydl]

It is a huge use of water and electricity to constantly insist on long hot steamy showers for everyday living.

This did not seem to be what the OP was advocating.