why a V10

[Gordon Groff]

Ineresting post KlipschHead! (do you know Horn Ed?)
When I drove the earliest V10 on a similar C to mine with a 460, it seemed lacking.  That musta been my imagination based on the numbers you give.  I am extremely impressed by the V10 in my 44,000lb. Tiffin.  That was a concern, but I can say that it has plenty of what it takes to move her down the highway.  Have to check the camera to see if our toad is there.

Gordon

 

[KlipschHead281]

Gordon,

I have seen a lot of posts by people who don't own the V10 and a lot of them call it too weak or the 8.1 is far better and the last versions of the 8.1 were indeed great engines but were they better, I don't think so. If you got an early one it made only 225hp (can't find torque for the first year), 50hp less than the Triton V10 while the newest version in RV application made 340hp and 455lb-ft, hardly stronger than the Triton V10.  Both the V10 and 8.1 GM engines produced very healthy torque for gas engines and will work just fine in up to 37ft MH's in my view.

People can argue which one is really better till the cows come home but would either be right? Of course! Ford = First On Race Day!  ;D

 

[DandS]

It's a rather small (not much larger than 400 CID) high revving engine that gets lousy MPG and has had its share of problems.

I guess 362HP is a small engine to some and 7-7.5 mpg on a 38' coach pulling a toad may seem like lousy mileage, but not sure about all the problems?? I've had two V-10's the last six years (05' version and 08' version) and haven't had problem one. IMO, it's a winner!

 

[KlipschHead281]

I guess 362HP is a small engine to some and 7-7.5 mpg on a 38' coach pulling a toad may seem like lousy mileage, but not sure about all the problems?? I've had two V-10's the last six years (05' version and 08' version) and haven't had problem one. IMO, it's a winner!

Mine is 11 years old and pulls the 36ft Endeavor with no problem what so ever. I would LOVE to get a new 3V V10 in there.
There is a thread devoted to the 8.1 and possible issues, should we say people shouldn't buy an RV with one?   
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=24251.0

 

[DaBeav]

Torque is the answer you seek. While the output for 460 engines built before 1972 is a whopping 365 horsepower at 4,600 rpm and 485 pound-feet of torque at 2,800 rpm, the output for the 460 starting in 1972 is only 212 horsepower at 4,400 rpm and 342 pound-feet of torque at 2,600 rpm. Thanks to emission controls that's quite a drop in power not to mention torque. However after the mid-1980s, carburetors were replaced with electronic fuel injection boosting the 460's output back up a bit to 245 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque. On the other hand Ford's 6.8-liter V10 engine is rated at 288 horsepower, along with 424 lb.-ft. of torque. More ponies with 24 foot lbs of additional usable torque is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you're pulling so much weight. In addition to this the V10 runs noticeably smoother.

 

[Memtb]

this thread caught my eye, because when I talked to my mechanic about engine choices for my future RV, he Does not like the V10's at all.
  Hmm

    Kim58, The early V-10’s, did indeed have a problem...more like only about 3 full threads holding the spark plug. My younger brother had a spark plug blow out twice (two different plugs) in his Motorhome.
    If anyone has this issue “do not” use a typical “heli-coil” repair. It will likely fail! Ford designed a specific repair for that issue.
    Ford addressed the issue, changing head design, to give more threads for the plug. This was done about mid-year 2004. As most rv’s have the previous years chassis, I personally would not buy anything older than an ‘06. There is a way to verify the production date on the engine... but it’s kind of a pain in the behind. Safer to buy ‘06 or newer. That was our choice.

  Other than the early head design issues....they are a “rock solid” engine!

 

[Professor54313]

The date of the revision was December 1999 . I know because my 2000 Coachman  had a December 1999  engine which was the last of the 3 thread spark plugs. So I missed the revision by a month . You want engines made after jan 2000.
You can tell if you have those heads by removing the doghouse ( on Class C) and looking at the rear of the heads. They wrote the date of engine manufacturing on the rear surface . Mine was a yellow marker.

 

[Willandgiselarv]

Hi

It's still a bunch more moving parts though... a V12 would be smoother but even more parts.

The Vincent 1000cc V twins came about because Phil Irving (if I recall correctly) had two blueprints of the 500cc single on top of each other and realised, by rotating them 90 degrees, he could fit a twin in the same frame. I think the Jaguar V12's were two straight six heads on a new block.



Geoff

Yes we had the v12 jaguar and it would actually run off 1 bank, and pretty smoothly.
Never had a Ford V10 but when it first came out I was impressed by Ford

 

[billwild]

I still remember replacing the spark plugs on an old 1987 class C with the 460. Changed out 7 plugs in short order then for the life of me I could not change out the last one. Gave up after hours. Later I heard they actually jack up one side of the engine in the shops  to get at that one plug. I can only imagine the work it would take to change out all 10 in the Ford V10.

Bill

 

[Charlie 5320]

Ford doesn't have a big block V8 anymore, so there isn't much to discuss. GM's 8.1L V8 gave about the same performance as the Ford V10 in a similar size motorhome, and their displacement was close to the same, so I guess the fair answer is that the V10 did not have any particular advantage.

As far as general theory goes, a V10 can rev higher for the same displacement because the pistons are smaller and lighter than a V8 of the same displacement.  Now one has to ask, why do you want to rev higher?  I'll leave that question as an exercise for the student...

The ford V10 don't even compare in size to the 8.1. The 8.1 is 496 CI with much more torque. No comparison when moving a heavy vehicle. The V10 reaches it's HP level at a much higher RPM than the 8.1. Both Ford and GM abandoned the big block V8 to go to modular engines. The 6.0 GM truck engine is no more fuel efficient than the old 7.4 or the 8.1, and a LOT less torque. Yea they got the HP just like Ford but they really have to crank the engine up to get it. So they just increased speeds in the trans to compensate for LACK of torque, and crank the engines up.   

 

[oldryder]

I was told Ford made the V10 because it's just a 5 liter V8 with two more cylinders.  That means many ignition, valve train, and fuel system parts will be the same for the V8 and V10 and yields considerable cost savings for the manufacturer.  I'd be interested to know if this is true.

 

[Lou Schneider]

I can't find a current reference for this, but I remember reading Ford killed the 460 V-8 because of emission problems.  They found a bore over a certain diameter left a pool of unburned fuel in the center of the cylinder that was ejected out the exhaust, increasing the hydrocarbon count to unacceptable levels. 

This not only made the engine unable to meet tighter emission standards but not burning all of the fuel in the cylinder also gave the large bore V-8 it's reputation of being able to pass anything but a gas station.

Going to more cylinders let them continue to have a high displacement engine without having to increase the bore beyond the critical size.

 

[TonyDtorch]

Changing plugs is actually very easy on the V10.  They are right on the top of the engine.

You do need a special 12" inch long sparkplug socket, and make sure to use anti-seize on the plugs.....  but the good news is...they are not supposed to need replacing for 100k miles.

IMO...the 3 valve V10 is a wonderful engine.