Will a 30AH LITHIUM ION BATTERY work for me?

[roger8918]

I'm looking to replace my junk stock battery with lithium and I wondering if this would work....

GREENLIFE GL30 ? 12V 30AH LITHIUM ION BATTERY

12V 100A Lithium Ion Battery | GreenLiFE GL100

The GreenLiFE GL30 - 12V 30AH Lithium-Ion Battery is the perfect replacement from a group U1 AGM, GEL, or Lead Acid Battery. The GL30 is designed as a "drop in replacement" meaning all you have to do is take out your old group U1 battery and place the GL30 in the same way.

greenlifebattery.com

We never boondock for more than one night in a Cracker Barrel or Walmart. It would only be used for lights and and to run the furnace on cool nights.

2019 Keystone Cougar 26RBS

 

[Rob&Deryl]

That is a lawn tractor sized battery. Note the 30AH. I suspect your stock battery does better.

 

[Goodspike]

Someone more familiar with the conversion might give the OP an idea of the minimum expense just for batteries of converting to Lithium.

 

[Gizmo100]

IMHO...

I think your going to be VERY disappointed with that battery choice for running lights and your heater. If I was to guess your heater will kill the battery long before morning.

 

[silversport]

I agree with Gizmo 100, from what I understand you can draw a lithium down to 20%, a RV furnace pulls around 6.5 amps when running, not counting start up surge, on paper that's 4 hrs.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Someone more familiar with the conversion might give the OP an idea of the minimum expense just for batteries of converting to Lithium.

Costco has been offering the LiOn Safari UT1300 105 amp-hour batteries for $700 each from time to time.  Will Prowse (YouTube lithium battery guru) also likes SOK ($570 for 100 a/h on Amazon) and Powerblock ($999 for 170 a/h from bigbattery.com).  These prices are getting close to what you'd pay if you DIY by buying individual cells and a BMS.

You'd need 3 of the 30 amp batteries at $200 each to approach the capacity of a single SOK 100 amp battery for $570.  Since you can use the full rated capacity of a Lithium battery vs. 50% depth of discharge for lead acid, a single 100 amp-hour lithium battery will give about the same usable performance as two lead acid or AGM batteries.

 

[John From Detroit]

There are multiple types of LI batteries and I'm not good enough to tell one from the other.

LI's however, the ones I do know, are kind of like propane tanks.  Take a 5 Gallon propane tank and put 4 gallons in it (that's full by the way) measure the outlet pressure at a given "room temp" and you will find xx PSI.

Now use it Use it so only about 1/2 cup of liquid is left in the tank.. measure the outlet pressure at the same "room temp" Still xx (same) as it was full..  Once you run out of liquid.. Like a rock in free fall the pressure goes down (how those RED/GREEN gauges work, RED = EMPTY Green = NOT empty)

Well the Li Batteries I know of .. that is how they work.  near constant voltage till.. Rock in free fall time.

So 30 amps of LI is about the same as a group 29 Lead Acid.  IF it is that same battery.

Do not know about recharging or if you can safely run it that low or anything else.

Two companies who make LI that might help you
Battle Born
Bioenno power

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I'm looking to replace my junk stock battery with lithium and I wondering if this would work....

I would check the actual operating currents of your various devices (lights, furnace) and come up with a hard number for Ah you'd need for a typical night.  Based on the spec's for this battery I know it would be enough to carry me through one night with capacity to spare but the only way to know for sure is it run it for your use, not mine or anyone else's.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Is your existing battery "junk" because it goes dead before morning?  If so, the problem is likely insufficient amp hours for your power consumption needs.  The lithium battery may be better quality than whatever you are now using, but with only 30 AH (assuming you run it dead flat) it's probably no improvement over what you now have in terms of usable AH.  A common Group 24 lead-acid battery has a usable capacity of 40-60 AH, so replacing it with one that only provides 24-30 AH ain't gonna help.

Two of those batteries would probably yield a small improvement. To get a significant improvement, you would need to buy the GL75 or GL80 model, but there are others equally cost-effective. And don't forget that you almost surely need to upgrade your onbaord charger to get full capacity from the lithiums.


An alternative would be a decent quality Group 27 AGM lead-acid battery. That would increase your AH capacity by about 25% and should have a service life of 5-7 years.

 

[Goodspike]

An alternative would be a decent quality Group 27 AGM lead-acid battery. That would increase your AH capacity by about 25% and should have a service life of 5-7 years.

And that option might not require a converter change--it wouldn't on my trailer.  Another option would be to move to two batteries, either two 12 volt in parallel or two 6 volt in series.  Those could be either AGM or lead acid.  Even if the exact same battery as OE that would double the capacity, and likely might be the lowest cost option (cost being defined as out of pocket now, not long term.)

We really don't know much about the OP's situation, but there are a lot of replacement options short of moving to Lithium. 

 

[Lou Schneider]

There are numerous battery monitors on the market that directly measure how much power is flowing in and out of your batteries and provide a running total of how much power remains in the battery, much like a Kill-A-Watt meter measures cumulative AC kilowatt-hours. 

The easiest to install is the Victron SmartShunt, it goes in series with the negative battery lead and has a small wire going to the positive post for power, then uses Bluetooth to wirelessly transmit to an app on a smartphone or tablet for the display.

There are numerous other battery monitors available, ranging from $30 Chinese meters on up, these also use a shunt on the negative battery wire but are somewhat more complicated to install because you have to run a cable between the display and the shunt.

 

[John From Detroit]

A group 27 is just shy of 100 Amp Hours. you can safely use about 20-25 of 'em

The folks I know using LI batteries claim they hold their voltage till dang near empty.  NOW what I don't know is does that damage the battery to run it completely dry like it does with lead Acid.. Have not read anything on that.

So based on that a 30 ap LI and a 100 amp Lead Acid dang near identical in usable power  UNLESS the LA is a "DEEP CYCLE (The 25% is MARINE/deep cycle) then you get 50 amp hours if your hardware does not mind the voltage drop.

 

[JayArr]

what I don't know is does that damage the battery to run it completely dry like it does with lead Acid

Most lithium battery packs for Laptops etc have a circuit board embedded in them with a "supervisory" chip and some switching transistors. The chip monitors the contacts and when it sees a charger it turns on the charge transistor and turns off the supply transistor, this allows the pack to charge. When the charger is removed the chip turns off the charger transistor and turns on the supply transistor so the battery pack can power whatever unit it is built to power (laptop, vacuum, etc)

The supervisor chip also monitors the battery voltage and won't let it go below a preset limit. As an example the S-8254 chip, which is pretty common, won't let a 3.6V lithium battery go below 2.0volts. It will shut off the supply transistor if it detects the battery has dropped this low. This protects the battery pack. It does a similar check/test for overcharge, if the battery reaches 4.4V it turns off the charge transistor.

A quick Google search for "Abilic Inc" "S-8254A" should provide anyone that wants to read further a free datasheet for this IC and a good primer on how some battery packs work.

So the life of a 3.6V lithium is between 2.0V and 4.4V with a typical resting point of 3.6V

Don't confuse this with lead acid technology, just because the battery cuts out at 2.0V doesn't mean that you only get (3.6-2.0)/3.6=44% of the charge. You get closer to 90%

There are two big caveats to lithium battery packs. If the batteries get depleted below 1.1V they are dead and cannot be recharged with a conventional charger, Once the chip loses power both transistors turn off and then there is no way to charge it. It's a chicken/egg problem, the chip doesn't have any power so it can't turn the transistor on to allow a charge to occur and because you cannot charge the battery you cannot get any power to the chip. Neat obsolescence trick eh?

Lithium batteries can lose between 5% and 10% per month so if your batteries sit too long they turn into bricks. I had a customer that bought brand new electric 4x4 ATVs for his cottage. Parked them in the fall and didn't visit the cottage again until the spring. The ATVs were dead and refused to charge when hooked back up to the charger. He had to go buy new battery packs for both.

Sometimes it just pays to KISS.

 

[Goodspike]

Sometimes it just pays to KISS.

I would agree.  I'm hopefully at least a year or two away from needing to replace my batteries, but at current prices I'm leaning more toward 6 volt deep cycle lead acid first, and AGM second.  But these decisions also depend on the type of camping you do and your power needs.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I'm leaning more toward 6 volt deep cycle lead acid first, and AGM second.

Forgive the technical nitpicking, but "6v deep cycle" and "AGM" aren't necessarily different batteries.  Both are lead acid, and both are deep cycle capable.  All AGM batteries have superior deep cycling capabilities, so there isn't much reason to pick 6v or the GC2 golf car packaging vs some other voltage or case size.  If you go for AGM, you can buy the voltage & size that best fits your needs.  You can get a 6v AGM deep cycle if you want.

 

[Goodspike]

Forgive the technical nitpicking, but "6v deep cycle" and "AGM" aren't necessarily different batteries.

Correct, I should have said 6 volt flooded cell lead acid deep cycle.  I don't know that I want to make the jump to AGM for the trailer battery even though my converter can charge it and my truck is AGM.

To further clarify, if I stick with flooded cell I probably will go 6 volt.  If I go AGM I haven't even considered my options.

 

[DonTom]

The easiest to install is the Victron SmartShunt, it goes in series with the negative battery lead and has a small wire going to the positive post for power, then uses Bluetooth to wirelessly transmit to an app on a smartphone or tablet for the display.

Lou, I didn't  see a lot of useful specs on that thing. Do you know if it can measure very low current such as a ma or two?


What app is used?



-Don-  Yuma, AZ

 

[Lou Schneider]

Lou, I didn't  see a lot of useful specs on that thing. Do you know if it can measure very low current such as a ma or two?

What app is used?

The Amazon listing is just an overview, as are most of their product descriptions.  If you want to dig deeper, visit the Victron website.  You'll find detailed specs and numerous downloads including the Victron Connect software (also available free on Google Play and the App Store).  A Google search will turn up user reviews and there are several videos on YouTube.

https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/smart-battery-shunt

The SmartShunt's resolution is 0.01 amps (100 ma) so it's not able to measure down to 0.001 or 0.002 amps (1 or 2 milliamps).  But then neither can any other 500amp/50 mv shunt based meter.

 

[AStravelers]

Lou, I didn't  see a lot of useful specs on that thing. Do you know if it can measure very low current such as a ma or two?


What app is used?



-Don-  Yuma, AZ

Is there a reason to need a battery monitor to measure every low current of a ma or two.  That isn't enough to discharge your battery(s) in less that a few months. 

 

[DonTom]

Is there a reason to need a battery monitor to measure every low current of a ma or two.  That isn't enough to discharge your battery(s) in less that a few months.

No real need, other than curiosity. Such as when my refrigerator is on propane, how much DC current is it then drawing?


BTW, I do like the idea of how  the Lit-Ion batteries work.  That the voltage stays up high until it is well discharged. Is anybody making a converter for such RV house batteries yet?


I have a lot of stuff in the RV that is somewhat sensitive to low battery voltage when I am bondocked. Such as some of my ham gear and some of my little pure sinewave inverters I use to charge this computer battery.


I know about not letting them discharge to the point that they become bricks. The same can happen to my electric motorcycle batteries, but unlikely as they are many KWhs and don't self discharge much--but it can still happen with enough neglect over a long time period,  when left somewhat discharged to begin with.


-Don-  Yuma, AZ