We've rented the Mirada and not only would I not buy one, I would not rent one again either. They cost less but you are getting less too. If you can rent the ones that you have interest then I recommend you do so. Nothing like driving and living in an RV to find out if it works for you. You can rent from quite a few private owners as well as commercial operations.
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SusanV
Guest
Just out of curiosity, what was it you didn't like about it, CWO?
We're by no means dedicated to any brand or model. We're mainly just getting a feel for possible floorplans.
We're by no means dedicated to any brand or model. We're mainly just getting a feel for possible floorplans.
SeilerBird
Well-known member
You will get these negative remarks for almost any brand of RVs ever made. You will also get remarks that this is the most awesome RV ever made. CWO has only four posts so we don't know if he is a troll or a legitimate RVer. I would not let his opinion sway me one way or another.SusanV said:
ZinLuvR
Well-known member
For us we had must haves and we did not compromise on those and we're glad we stuck with the features we wanted. We did not start out looking for any particular brand. There are many things to consider for build quality. The roads out there suck for the most part and will shake a cheap build to pieces and you'll soon come to hate the rattles and squeaks. Heating and cooling systems, will they handle the different climates you plan to be in? How reliant is the coach on computers and electronics that control the major components? The newer RV's are having lots of fancy screens and multiplexing, good luck with that should they fail. We looked at a new high end class A, I'll leave the make out to avoid an argument, but it was a $400,000.00 plus top of line. After the 6th item came off in my hand by an easy tug, we left. We ended up with a 2009 Monaco and it has all are must haves we were looking for and we are very happy with our purchase. The biggest downside is Monaco is now owned by REV Group, as well as HR. As a result REV doesn't know much if anything about the original Monaco's and that leaves us on our own when it comes to any technical information. But there are many owner groups out there and lots of knowledge. As many have said, forget the badge on the nose, the build quality today depends what kind of day the installer was having. This isn't a vehicle your looking for, it's a small house sitting on a steel frame with some tires.
SeilerBird
Well-known member
Being vibrated constantly as it is driven over roads with pot holes at 65 mph. It is not the brand that determines the quality of a used RV it is the way it has been treated and serviced during it's lifetime.
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SusanV
Guest
I don't care at all about the badge on the nose (I still can't quite figure out why anyone ever thought I did), but it's helpful (for me; your mileage may vary) to know what people's experiences have been with various makes and models. It wouldn't lead me to one over the other, nor would it put me off, it's just useful info.
You make the comment, "The roads out there suck for the most part and will shake a cheap build to pieces..." and that's the impression I've been getting (among other things). But when you're new to this, you have no idea what a "cheap build" is, and that's when other people's experience is helpful. I get that it doesn't mean every model a given brand makes will be lousy, nor would every RV in a given model be lousy just because some are, it's just good to know what others have dealt with so that my thoughts are more well-rounded. I also appreciate your comment, ZinLuvR, about REV Group as regards issues with repairs on Monacos. Not because of the brand, but because it's a reminder that brands have merged, and I should pay attention to that.
It does seem like there is no way on earth to have the slightest clue about the quality of any given RV until you own it and use it, and that DOES put me off a bit. I would never purchase an RV without a qualified inspection, but it sure is frustrating even knowing where to start if it's down to whether or not the technician had a fight with their spouse the day they were building your rig. If it's totally down to the luck of the draw, why would anyone risk thousands (or hundreds of thousands!) of dollars on something they can't even begin to assess beyond liking the floorplan and the curtains? If some of the comments are to be believed, this must be the only product in the world that has zero quality control.
You make the comment, "The roads out there suck for the most part and will shake a cheap build to pieces..." and that's the impression I've been getting (among other things). But when you're new to this, you have no idea what a "cheap build" is, and that's when other people's experience is helpful. I get that it doesn't mean every model a given brand makes will be lousy, nor would every RV in a given model be lousy just because some are, it's just good to know what others have dealt with so that my thoughts are more well-rounded. I also appreciate your comment, ZinLuvR, about REV Group as regards issues with repairs on Monacos. Not because of the brand, but because it's a reminder that brands have merged, and I should pay attention to that.
It does seem like there is no way on earth to have the slightest clue about the quality of any given RV until you own it and use it, and that DOES put me off a bit. I would never purchase an RV without a qualified inspection, but it sure is frustrating even knowing where to start if it's down to whether or not the technician had a fight with their spouse the day they were building your rig. If it's totally down to the luck of the draw, why would anyone risk thousands (or hundreds of thousands!) of dollars on something they can't even begin to assess beyond liking the floorplan and the curtains? If some of the comments are to be believed, this must be the only product in the world that has zero quality control.
SeilerBird
Well-known member
The reason people think that you care about the badge is due to the fact that the title of the thread is that you are looking for opinions on three very specific models. Any experience anyone has with any model will have nothing to do with the RV you are looking at. Rarely do all RVs of a particular make or model share the same problems. It is not like buying a car.SusanV said:
I don't agree with the premise that a cheap build will be worse than an expensive build when buying used. It is my opinion that condition is paramount and the quality of the build is meaningless. A cheaply built RV that has been taken care of properly will be a better buy than an expensive build that is not taken care of properly in my opinion.
The quality of the RV is meaningless in my book if it has spent it's life driving down unpaved roads at excessive speed and not maintained properly. The condition an RV is in the day it left the factory really doesn't have much to do with the condition the RV is in after a few years of use. Having an RV inspected by a competent RV inspector prior to the purchase does not insure a trouble free experience but it will tell you if it has problems right now. All RVs have problems of one kind or another during their lifetime.
Because RVing is a blast and well worth the problems.
RVs have excellent quality control. However it is impossible to test all the different systems on an RV in all the different situations. You can't test an RV for 120 degree weather, 75 degree weather and 20 degree weather or in a 50 mph wind. In each situation the results could be very different. RVs need to be driven and shaken for a while to find all the screws that just were not quite tight enough at the factory.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
On that topic of initial build quality, go to any major used RV dealer, and walk through a few coaches. Go look at any 10-20 year old diesel powered Foretravel, Safari, Beaver, Monaco, Newmar, Country Coach etc. mid-upper end coach (some of these companies had a few semi-entry level gasoline powered models), then go find any 5-6 year old Thor, and compare fit and finish. Sure some of these coaches will show more wear than others, some will have leaks, and other types of damage, but if you look past the color changing LED's and flat panel tv's every where one will fit, you will quickly notice how quality on average ages better. Full body paint lasts MUCH longer than vinyl graphics given the same level of care, fiberglass fixtures outlast plastic, real wood cabinets held together with screws outlasts particle board held together with staples, .....
Go in walk around, open and close some cabinet doors, cargo doors, etc. Now sure the older coaches here may have seen more use, and you may have to search to find a pristine example, but just look at how they hold up on average against a newer entry level coach.
Go in walk around, open and close some cabinet doors, cargo doors, etc. Now sure the older coaches here may have seen more use, and you may have to search to find a pristine example, but just look at how they hold up on average against a newer entry level coach.
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SusanV
Guest
Thank you, Isaac-1. That's what we've been doing, and it's becoming clear there are fairly big differences between certain brands. Early on, we really liked a specific brand's floorplan. It had everything we thought we needed. If we hadn't been diligent about continuing to learn about different brands' quality, we may have gone with it. When we asked the dealer why one of the cupboard doors was hanging off its hinge, he blamed it on kids playing too rough in the vehicle (this was a brand new, never-used 2019 model). As we've been exploring further, that explanation became somewhat suspect. 
Very exciting to investigate all the options, and very time consuming, too!
Very exciting to investigate all the options, and very time consuming, too!
ZinLuvR
Well-known member
Isaac-1 nailed it pretty well. All the cabinets and doors in our coach are solid cherry.
One other point I had with the pre-purchase private inspection. In my opinion, I would not rely on this solely. Our inspector told me the batteries were in good condition, tested out good, they were AGM's and had a few years left in them. No such luck, one house battery load tested at almost zero. We have 6 12 volt AGM batteries. The two chassis batteries are OK, hope to get one more year, maybe. Had to replace the 4 house batteries at just about $600 each. So that was a costly item the inspector got wrong. He was pretty good on most everything else, so far. Not a big deal, buying used we knew we would be putting money into things that wear out. So my advice is to do checking on your inspector as well as the motorhome.
One other point I had with the pre-purchase private inspection. In my opinion, I would not rely on this solely. Our inspector told me the batteries were in good condition, tested out good, they were AGM's and had a few years left in them. No such luck, one house battery load tested at almost zero. We have 6 12 volt AGM batteries. The two chassis batteries are OK, hope to get one more year, maybe. Had to replace the 4 house batteries at just about $600 each. So that was a costly item the inspector got wrong. He was pretty good on most everything else, so far. Not a big deal, buying used we knew we would be putting money into things that wear out. So my advice is to do checking on your inspector as well as the motorhome.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
Without seeing the wording in the report, it is hard to say if the inspector got it wrong about the batteries. Though in the inspectors defense accurately testing an AGM battery does require an expensive piece of specialty equipment. Most likely they tested for battery voltage with the power disconnected, and it passed this test, as being functional though at diminished load carrying capacity, meaning it would run down in a couple of hours under typical load instead of after a day or so.
1PlasticMan1
Well-known member
We spent almost a year deciding on what to purchase as our first RV at the age of 75 (us). As we researched and went to shows, test drove various models, the one thing that kept coming at us was: decide what you need that would make it a home away from home for six months of the year. Layout was primary as well as a king size bed as that is all we have slept on for the past 50 years. As we live in a home that is over 2,000 square feet, and my wife and I still bump into each other, we decided at least two slide outs were mandatory. Quality was the next issue which is tough, as it is really hard to look under the skin to see what is really there. We decided upon a new unit as we have never had a used home. I know most motor home owners are exceptionally clean and take great care of their unit, but we wanted new. We have had it for three years, and are very happy with the floor plan. Unfortunately, the quality has been deplorable. Love the Ford chassis, but had to go back to Fleetwood five times after giving up on the dealer. Ran into people who were there more than once also.
Another thing - IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR WAY AROUND A TOOL BOX, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BUYING ANY KIND OF RV.
You mention 200 mile round trips. Think about how tight your schedule is and whether you can wait to get a slide out to come in before you move on.
Another thing - IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR WAY AROUND A TOOL BOX, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BUYING ANY KIND OF RV.
You mention 200 mile round trips. Think about how tight your schedule is and whether you can wait to get a slide out to come in before you move on.
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SusanV
Guest
We know our way around a toolbox (only just), but certainly don't know our way around RV issues. I'm guessing that's what classes are for, and we're lucky to live about 45 minutes away from LazyDays in Tampa, where several classes are offered. We'll also be going to the huge RV show in Tampa and taking some classes there. We'll look for other classes too, as needed. We have time; this is a plan that won't happen for 2-3 years (we thought it would be 3-5, but it seems to be moving forward).
The 200 mile round trips I mentioned would be in a car, not in the motorhome. What are you "round tripping" to and from if you're already in your motorhome? In theory, we won't be on a schedule, other than leaving when we're ready and returning when we're ready. We do 200 mile round trips all the time right now, so it's not a big deal for us. We would happily depart in the morning, drive (in the car) most of the day, and return at night, if the situation called for it.
That said, I may be misunderstanding your comment. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the schedule and the slide.
The 200 mile round trips I mentioned would be in a car, not in the motorhome. What are you "round tripping" to and from if you're already in your motorhome? In theory, we won't be on a schedule, other than leaving when we're ready and returning when we're ready. We do 200 mile round trips all the time right now, so it's not a big deal for us. We would happily depart in the morning, drive (in the car) most of the day, and return at night, if the situation called for it.
That said, I may be misunderstanding your comment. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the schedule and the slide.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
It does certainly help to be handy with tools if you own an RV of any type, and being just a little bit handy goes a long ways vs. paying $150 per hour for simple jobs. For example the inspection sticker on my coach expires in a couple of days, and I have a rear upper clearance marker light that is out. I have known it was out for a couple of months, but kept putting off fixing it, so while the weather was nice today I decided to pull it down and fix it (or at least try to). First issue was that the marker light frame was glued to the fiberglass end cap with silicone adhesive, it was also attached with 2 very rusted screws, one of which was rusted down to about half its original diameter after 17 years. A bit of effort with a razor knife, and an Impacta screw driver ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QxPvDBJzE ) revealed that the not only was the bulb burned out, but that the socket was full of water and the contacts inside had turned into green sludge, thankfully the rubber grommet seal to the inside of the fiberglass cap was still intact. Getting the rubber grommet seal apart was in fact a challenge as it looks like it was installed from the back side before the interior was installed and glued in place, after a bit of work I was able to rip the rubber apart to access the wires going to the socket. I made a trip to the local auto parts store and found a red LED replacement bulb and socket which I will splice back into the wires tomorrow, and then reseal the hole with liquid electrical tape, and remount the assembly with fresh screws. I don't think I will put silicone back on the fitting as it does not seem to do much in this situation other than make the fixture hold water after it gives out on the top.
I can just imagine what a shop would charge to fix this, and probably do a poor job in the process.
I can just imagine what a shop would charge to fix this, and probably do a poor job in the process.
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SusanV
Guest
Formerly, the idea of doing that would intimidate me, Isaac-1, but somehow, when it's work being done on the vehicle that will give us a year on the road, it inspires me. We don't know how to to basic wiring, so that's a class we'll be taking, as are some other basic maintenance classes. I would imagine there are some maintenance things an RV needs that don't translate to a sticks and bricks, but I also imagine there are quite a few that do (wiring being one of them). I quite like the idea of learning how to take care of simple things and figure out semi-simple things. I've always hated paying for something if I could do it myself. Thanks for the story!
We don't know how to to basic wiring, so that's a class we'll be taking, as are some other basic maintenance classes. I would imagine there are some maintenance things an RV needs that don't translate to a sticks and bricks, but I also imagine there are quite a few that do (wiring being one of them). I quite like the idea of learning how to take care of simple things and figure out semi-simple things. I've always hated paying for something if I could do it myself. Thanks for the story!
Bill N
Well-known member
If you have intentions of eventually selling the unit, the Newmar will hold its value much longer than the others.SusanV said:
Bill
1PlasticMan1
Well-known member
Susan V - Misunderstood. Thought you would be making round trips in a coach. No, we don't make round trips, but the number of times my not leaving an RV Park as scheduled due to slide out problems has happened enough times to leave my schedule somewhat flexible. Never been to a Lazy Days course, but seeing their blogs tells me they know what they are doing and are very customer oriented. Good luck with your search!
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SusanV
Guest
1PlasticMan1, that's the impression I'm getting from reading through several forums. It does seem like flexibility is key, and thankfully we'll have that luxury. There is no time frame, other than thinking we'll be on the road for a year, possibly more, but probably not more than 2 years.
Your comments are certainly taken on board. We originally thought (in our extreme naivety) we'd be travelling in the motorhome nearly every day. Now we're much more inclined to think we'll find a base for at least a few days, possibly longer depending on the location, and make day trips from there.
Your comments are certainly taken on board. We originally thought (in our extreme naivety) we'd be travelling in the motorhome nearly every day. Now we're much more inclined to think we'll find a base for at least a few days, possibly longer depending on the location, and make day trips from there.
If Susan's is planning on owning the RV for only a year or two, that kind of changes the criteria. Including a floor plan that I liked I would also think about depreciation. She's going to loose money but by choosing wisely that can be mitigated somewhat. She doesn't want to work on the RV or have it in the shop so a good inspection on both the house and chassis is a must. That also eliminates a new coach due to poor QC on new coaches.
If it were me, a short ownership period would change how I would look at a coach. I'm not sure how as I would have to take some time to think this over, but I think the traditional opinions on coach buying would need to be modified somewhat.
If it were me, a short ownership period would change how I would look at a coach. I'm not sure how as I would have to take some time to think this over, but I think the traditional opinions on coach buying would need to be modified somewhat.
Dream Chasers
Well-known member
I cannot comment on any of your initial choices. We never owned any RV nor did we even camp. Bobby camped growing up. Sheryl did not. Our experience was based on "deal-breakers" vs must haves. Neither of us liked the entry door behind the passenger seat. Nothing wrong with it, but not our liking. So that eliminated a lot of models. We had to have a real bedroom door, not a curtain or screen, had to be accessable to bedroom, bathroom and refrigerator with slides in, and had to have a washer/dryer. We found what we wanted in our coach and are very happy with the choice. This decision was made in January 2015 but we were not ready to buy yet. We were looking to buy in 2016 and go on 1 of 2 planned 6 months trips in 2018. We then went to a couple small RV shows and 2 trips to Lazy Days to look at alternate choices. We also researched on line and various forums. We literally tried to talk ourselves out of our choice. This was the only way we could be sure we truly liked our coach and were not settling.
Circumstances changed and we bought the coach in October 2015. We then went on bimonthly trips to get to know the coach and find all items that needed attention. As we live within 40 miles of Lazy Days and have a house, it wasn't a problem bringing in the coach for warranty work. All was completed on time with no issues. We never really researched Dealers, but we have been very pleased with Lazy Days. We took our first 6 month trip in 2017, going 14,500 miles to Alaska. We are taking our second 6 month trip in 2019.
The best advice we received was from Gary and Ardra. Both said to be clear in what you really must have and if the coach doesn't have it, is it a deal breaker? Also both advised during the Florida RV Show, to spend a lot of time in the coaches you are considering. Imagine living in it. Stand at the sink and stove, is there room for people to get psst you? Sit on the toilet (lid closed) is there room for your knees? Is the showerhead tall enough? Are the walls wide enough that you can wash your hair? Shave your legs? Listen to the people walking through and their comments. The showscare great for doing this, if you don't really engage a salesman. It is easier to think about these types of questions, without salesmen hovering around, or worse, distracting you with items they want to point out, that may not interest you. If you have questions, ask them when you are done with your own tour. Don't forget to bring a pad of paper and pen and wear comfy shoes. Our first time at the show, we saw our coach and a salesman told us to look at the Tiffen 33AA, which was very similar. Of course, they were no where near each other. We hiked back and forth to compare.
The most important thing to remember, it is your money and your RV, so you have to be happy with the decision. The opinions listed here, are just opinions. We bought new, against the majority advice, but that is what we wanted. We haven't regretted it at all.
Good luck and happy shopping.
Circumstances changed and we bought the coach in October 2015. We then went on bimonthly trips to get to know the coach and find all items that needed attention. As we live within 40 miles of Lazy Days and have a house, it wasn't a problem bringing in the coach for warranty work. All was completed on time with no issues. We never really researched Dealers, but we have been very pleased with Lazy Days. We took our first 6 month trip in 2017, going 14,500 miles to Alaska. We are taking our second 6 month trip in 2019.
The best advice we received was from Gary and Ardra. Both said to be clear in what you really must have and if the coach doesn't have it, is it a deal breaker? Also both advised during the Florida RV Show, to spend a lot of time in the coaches you are considering. Imagine living in it. Stand at the sink and stove, is there room for people to get psst you? Sit on the toilet (lid closed) is there room for your knees? Is the showerhead tall enough? Are the walls wide enough that you can wash your hair? Shave your legs? Listen to the people walking through and their comments. The showscare great for doing this, if you don't really engage a salesman. It is easier to think about these types of questions, without salesmen hovering around, or worse, distracting you with items they want to point out, that may not interest you. If you have questions, ask them when you are done with your own tour. Don't forget to bring a pad of paper and pen and wear comfy shoes. Our first time at the show, we saw our coach and a salesman told us to look at the Tiffen 33AA, which was very similar. Of course, they were no where near each other. We hiked back and forth to compare.
The most important thing to remember, it is your money and your RV, so you have to be happy with the decision. The opinions listed here, are just opinions. We bought new, against the majority advice, but that is what we wanted. We haven't regretted it at all.
Good luck and happy shopping.
