2003 Honda Pilot Toad Newbie

[esim134]

Hello Everyone! My father recently passed in January at the young age of 86. He was an avid RVer and brought us up camping since I've been a baby, now 51! He towed a 2003 Honda Pilot behind his 1999 Holiday Rambler Imperial (which will be up for sale soon). I have a 2021 Thor Magnitude GA24 Class C and would like to tow his 2003 Honda Pilot. Do you think this is doable? We were supposed to have that father daughter teaching day but didn't get a chance I have the tow bar he used but I don't see any braking system. I've never towed before so I'm also unsure of what or if any fuses need to be pulled in the Pilot. I've read about battery drain so I'm pretty sure I need to start the engine periodically while traveling and that's about all I know.

Any advice, recommendations, comments or concerns are much appreciated and welcomed!

Thanks!
Erin

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

More than a few people tow cars without auxiliary braking. There is a certain amount of risk involved because the minimum stopping distance is substantially increased. That's a factor when you suddenly have to make an emergency stop. Steep downhill grades can also get scary without toad braking. Your dad may be one of those who felt confident that he could always stop in time without extra braking. Not a choice I would make!

Honda has a towing set-up procedure that must be followed to the letter to avoid damage to the transmission. It may be covered in the owner manual if you have that. My understanding is that it is different than the more widely used procedure for Accords & CRVs of that vintage, but I don't have the details. Also that the AWD Pilot is different than the 2WD version - I think only the AWD version can be towed with all 4 wheels on the ground.

This old article may help: https://www.piloteers.org/threads/no-more-4-down-towing.19556/

 

[uchu]

More than a few people tow cars without auxiliary braking. There is a certain amount of risk involved because the minimum stopping distance is substantially increased. That's a factor when you suddenly have to make an emergency stop. Steep downhill grades can also get scary without toad braking.

Not to mention that it's against the law, in most North American jurisdictions.

 

[esim134]

More than a few people tow cars without auxiliary braking. There is a certain amount of risk involved because the minimum stopping distance is substantially increased. That's a factor when you suddenly have to make an emergency stop. Steep downhill grades can also get scary without toad braking. Your dad may be one of those who felt confident that he could always stop in time without extra braking. Not a choice I would make!

Honda has a towing set-up procedure that must be followed to the letter to avoid damage to the transmission. It may be covered in the owner manual if you have that. My understanding is that it is different than the more widely used procedure for Accords & CRVs of that vintage, but I don't have the details. Also that the AWD Pilot is different than the 2WD version - I think only the AWD version can be towed with all 4 wheels on the ground.

This old article may help: https://www.piloteers.org/threads/no-more-4-down-towing.19556/

Thank you, Gary! I'll definitely look into the owner's manual and refer to the article you linked. Happy Camping!

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Not to mention that it's against the law, in most North American jurisdictions.

Actually it is not. I won't try to rationalize it, but in most states towed vehicles don't fall under the same regulations as trailers and aux brakes are not required. Canada is a different story, though.

The law that cannot be avoided is the laws of physics. The heavier the rig is, the longer it takes to stop. The only way to compensate for that is to increase braking capacity. I would not tow a car without aux braking.

 

[uchu]

Well, this link seems to indicate that it really depends on the weight of what is towed, with the special requirements specified by state or province:

www.brakebuddy.com/towing-laws.html

But I agree completely regarding the strict compliance to the laws that Sir Isaac Newton was kind enough to write.

 

[Old_Crow]

In the past, I've towed my Jeep Wrangler many miles without an aux braking system, until I came across a deal on one I couldn't refuse. The first trip after I got the braking system installed, I had some fool cut in front of me and brake check me. I nailed the brakes on the coach hard enough that the ABS kicked in (road was wet). I didn't think I was going to be able to stop in time, until I felt the brakes on the Jeep apply. That extra bit of braking force was enough to keep me from ruining my day.
After that, I became convinced that a braking system is the way to go.

 

[esim134]

Hi all! I have some updates and numbers and could use y'all expertise! If you read my original post you know I'm trying to tow a 2003 Honda Pilot. I found the papers with the directions on what to do to the Pilot prior to towing. My wonderful, awesome Pop had several copies in the glovebox and 1 in the console! Now with that being said here are my numbers. Is this set up doable? Can anyone help teach me the math??
2021 Magnitude 24GA
GVWR - 12,500
Current weight - 12,580
OOCC - 1221
Max Gross Trailer - 8,000
Max Gross Tongue - 500
GCWR - 18,500

2003 Honda Pilot
Curb weight - 5950
Vehicle Capacity weight - 1322

Sterling tow bar
Max capacity - 6000lbs

Possible SMI Smartbox Breaking Control System - I say possible because I found it in a box in Pop's garage and I'm not sure if it has all the parts and/or is in working order. He loved a good pawn shop

 

[esim134]

SMI breaking system picture...

 

[Contributor]

Honda limits the tow behind speed to 65 MPH, just remember that.

 

[esim134]

Honda limits the tow behind speed to 65 MPH, just remember that.

View attachment 157897

Yes, that's the paper that I found in his glovebox and in the console. I typically drive 60-65 mph, so I'm good there. Thanks!

 

[uchu]

One thing to consider is that your class C is gas powered, not diesel, so I'm not sure how well would it handle towing such hefty toad.

 

[esim134]

One thing to consider is that your class C is gas powered, not diesel, so I'm not sure how well would it handle towing such hefty toad.

That’s my concern too. For now it would be flat interstate about an hour from home. But long term I’m thinking I’ll have to get something lighter. I just hate letting this toad go knowing it’s already set up.

 

[Ex-Calif]

18500 - 12580 = 5920 remaining capacity

You are already overweight on the coach itself by 80#. I hope that weight includes everything including gas, propane etc... You should consider a weight loss program for the coach.

Is the towbar already installed? How much does it weigh if not?

5920 - 5950 = -30 negative tow margin

So you are net over GCVWR by 30#

12580 + 5950 = 18530

People have done worse things but it is gonna be pretty hard on the RV engine, brakes and transmission.

 

[esim134]

18500 - 12580 = 5920 remaining capacity

You are already overweight on the coach itself by 80#. I hope that weight includes everything including gas, propane etc... You should consider a weight loss program for the coach.

Is the towbar already installed? How much does it weigh if not?

5920 - 5950 = -30 negative tow margin

So you are net over GCVWR by 30#

12580 + 5950 = 18530

People have done worse things but it is gonna be pretty hard on the RV engine, brakes and transmission.

Yes, the weight of the coach included all of that plus us and the dogs. We were on our way to a trip and stopped to get weighed. We were not towing. I can definitely do a weight loss program on the coach and one of the dogs just started their own weight loss program, so that may help. I haven’t weighed the tow bar nor the Pilot. Thank you for all the information so far. Can you recommend a lighter tow vehicle to possibly look into?

 

[Ex-Calif]

I'm not up on all the latest towables. There are a lot of guys that have that stuff at their fingertips. I would say the biggest decision is to tow flat, dolly or trailer. With your weight limitations you are probably going to want to flat tow or dolly tow a lighter vehicle.

I choose to dolly tow because I am a car nut and have need for a dolly a few times a year anyway. I also have the choice to tow my kids 2006 cobalt or my 1977 MGB. I also have a bike trailer and tow my V-Star. I like the flexibility.

I am also fortunate that I have about 1000# more MCVGWR than you. I am at about 14,500 at "traveling" weight - 1/2 water, gas, full propane and all the stores. so I have 5,000 pounds for anything I want to tow. The problem is the hitch is only rate for 3500. The cobalt weighs in at around 3,000 so I am pretty close when I include the dolly.

The other key is to make sure the target vehicle is flat towable if that's what you intend. It seems the most popular towable is a Jeep Wrangler but a lot of small sedans and hatchbacks also fit the bill.

 

[esim134]

I think my GCWR numbers were wrong.... My GCWR should be GVWR 12,500 + GTW 8000 = 20,500, not 18,500 as originally thought, correct? If so, then that leaves me with 2050lb wiggle room with the Pilot toad weight. I know I still have to lower the weight on Maggie - we are over by 80 lbs. Am I thinking correctly? My toad can't go over the 8000lb gross trailer weight, correct?

2021 Magnitude 24GA
GVWR - 12,500
Current weight - 12,580
OOCC - 1221
Max Gross Trailer - 8,000
Max Gross Tongue - 500
GCWR - 18,500

2003 Honda Pilot
Curb weight - 5950
Vehicle Capacity weight - 1322

Sterling tow bar
Max capacity - 6000lbs

 

[JJSON775]

Hello Everyone! My father recently passed in January at the young age of 86. He was an avid RVer and brought us up camping since I've been a baby, now 51! He towed a 2003 Honda Pilot behind his 1999 Holiday Rambler Imperial (which will be up for sale soon). I have a 2021 Thor Magnitude GA24 Class C and would like to tow his 2003 Honda Pilot. Do you think this is doable? We were supposed to have that father daughter teaching day but didn't get a chance I have the tow bar he used but I don't see any braking system. I've never towed before so I'm also unsure of what or if any fuses need to be pulled in the Pilot. I've read about battery drain so I'm pretty sure I need to start the engine periodically while traveling and that's about all I know.

Any advice, recommendations, comments or concerns are much appreciated and welcomed!

Thanks!
Erin

I don’t know how you use your RV but have you given any thought to not towing anything at all? At just 25 feet, your rig has pretty good mobility and allows you access to a lot of cool places not practical for big RV’s. If you are someplace where you want to leave the RV parked and need to get around, you can rent a car or take Uber in urban areas.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I think my GCWR numbers were wrong.... My GCWR should be GVWR 12,500 + GTW 8000 = 20,500, not 18,500 as originally thought, correct? If so, then that leaves me with 2050lb wiggle room with the Pilot toad weight. I know I still have to lower the weight on Maggie - we are over by 80 lbs. Am I thinking correctly? My toad can't go over the 8000lb gross trailer weight, correct?

Your GCWR number is whatever the manufacturer says they are, based on their engineering assessment. You cannot just add GTW to GVWR and calculate your own.

GTW deals with the strength of the hitch receiver and its mounting to the rear chassis frame, basically the hitch capacity. GCWR deals with the entire chassis capacity to move weight. It is typically limited by the transmission more than anything else, but other driveline components play a role too. There is no promise that the chassis has the capability to simultaneously handle its max cargo weight (GVWR) and max towing weight (GTW) simultaneously. You may be able to tow the GTW max with an empty coach (UVW weight), but typically not if the coach is fully loaded (GVWR weight).

 

[esim134]

Your GCWR number is whatever the manufacturer says they are, based on their engineering assessment. You cannot just add GTW to GVWR and calculate your own.

GTW deals with the strength of the hitch receiver and its mounting to the rear chassis frame, basically the hitch capacity. GCWR deals with the entire chassis capacity to move weight. It is typically limited by the transmission more than anything else, but other driveline components play a role too. There is no promise that the chassis has the capability to simultaneously handle its max cargo weight (GVWR) and max towing weight (GTW) simultaneously. You may be able to tow the GTW max with an empty coach (UVW weight), but typically not if the coach is fully loaded (GVWR weight).

Thanks Gary! I get what you’re saying. I’m trying to figure it all out but I can’t remember where I saw the 18,500. I’ll have a look again when I get back home.