Am I Being Unreasonable ?

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Well-known member
Apr 25, 2005
Hi Guys

We had the long awaited collection of the brand new 2006 Fleetwood Expedition yesterday.

First, a very brief bit of background :-

We decided on Lazydays for our main dealership visit following mostly good reports from members of various forums.

We were definately going to buy a coach from someone as we were already in the US and were committed to doing so.

We had already narrowed-down our choices and knew roughly what we could reduce the asking price to.

Whatever we purchased. we needed amber turn indicators and a high-density fog lamp for the rear of the coach - these are to legally drive when we take to the UK.

To cut a long story short, we decided on the Fleetwood Expedition at Lazydays. It was a very quick choice for us after standing in a Sportscoach and Expedition as viewing the headroom and options.

We told our Sales Rep what we wanted and placed a cash deposit. We then arranged the balance transfer from the UK. However, due to various requirements back home, we stated that we couldnt sign the paperwork until Feb 1st.

We were told that wasnt a problem - it would give them 3 weeks to get the coach ready (and prepare for our required changes), and that we could spend the night of the Feb 1st at Lazydays.

They were very clear that following the walk-thru of the coach and our overnight stay, we would find some issues that needed to be dealt with, but that they (unless serious) would be sorted before we left at 3pm on the following afternoon.

During those 3 weeks, our Sales Rep, the resident Fleetwood Rep and finally our Delivery Co-Ordinator exchanged several emails.

We expressed our need for the modifications to be taken care of on the 1st - after we had signed the paperwork. We had already confirmed that we would be paying for these items as extras.

During those 3 weeks, I was repeatedly told "do not worry, go and enjoy Florida, it will be sorted".

I was really concerned that these things would be forgotten, so I sourced various suppliers for the parts to match those on the coach and emailed the details to Lazydays, thinking they would appreciate having access to parts not usually used in the US.

We also visited Lazydays during those 3 weeks to sit-in and admire our new coach. This gave us a chance to highlight little problems prior to collection - front turn indicator bulb blown, missing sink plug, etc - the kind of thing that could be corrected in minutes.

Anyway, we arrived on the 1st.

We spent 20 minutes with the Business Manager and signed for the coach. It was VERY relaxed and handled very professionally - even our LLC registration.

Following an early lunch, we sat for 2 hours whilst waiting for our walk-thru. A nice lady kept coming across and letting us know someone would be with us "in about 20 minutes", but it was 2 hours. If they had just said 2 hours, we could have gone to a seminar or shopped for things we needed at Camping World, but we just had to sit there.

Whilst waiting, we again expressed our concerns to one of the Sales Reps we knew (ours was on a course for 4 days), and he took us into the service bay to show us the rear indicators we had requested. Unfortunatetly, they were a completely different design and make to those on the coach (and those we had emailed to them). They had a thick rubber seal around them, where the Expedition has a black metal seal. We were assured they would pop the lights out and use the Fleetwood seal.

We also pointed out that the lense was missing from a light above the front door.

When we finally did our walk-thru at 3pm several problems (99% minor) were highlighted.

The amber turn indicators hadnt been installed with the Fleetwood seal, and they just dont look right against all the other Fleetwood lights - one of the lenses was clearly at an angle which made it worse. This was just careless.

Some very minor problems were :-

....lense still missing above the door.
....rear ladder didnt fit the coach.
....front indicator bulb still blown.
....sink plug still missing.
....various marks on the woodwork.
....ceiling vent not slotted firmly in place.
....veneer peeling from wall.
....marks on fridge door.

Other problems included :-

....chipped paint in several places.
....large cut in sink basin.
....damage to co-pilot chair.
....chip in windshield.
....dents on edges of various bay doors.
....switches damaged.

So, given that most of the problems were reported by 5pm on the 1st - and after being informed someone would come and see us early on the 2nd - we were hopeful that the minor issues would be sorted by the time we had to leave at 3pm.

Well, after making several phone calls to Lazydays staff during the day, not a single thing had been sorted by 3pm.

We sat with our Delivery Co-Ordinator who explained the following to us :-

Because the various problems MUST have been damaged by Fleetwood, they would all have to be claimed by Lazydays on the Warranty. This would involve emailing details to Fleetwood and waiting (upto 3 days) for authorization to do the work.

I explained that, as they had several new Expeditions still UNSOLD, they could remove the appropriate items and place them in our coach. We even checked the ladders on the other coaches and they were fine. They could then wait for the authorisation and repair the effected items, ready for when they finally sell the coach.

I was told, very firmly, that this was not policy and that we would have to wait for the authorization from Fleetwood.

So, an authorization is needed for a SINK PLUG, another for a LADDER, another for the Vent to be fixed in place, another for a plastic lense and even an authorization for a LIGHT BULB !!!

We were expected to drive away and return when these authorizations have been obtained - What a joke for after-sales service !!

We had no problem leaving it a week and returning for the paintwork and dents to be sorted, but for a light bulb ?

In the end, we had a very lengthy difference of opinion until it was agreed at 4.30pm that someone would indeed try to sort the very easy problems - it only took 24 hours.

Now, we are having to pay to stay at Rallypark for 2 nights whilst they do the repairs - the refuse to cover the camping fees.

Finally, they presented us with the bill for the rear amber lights - charging us $128 for parts which were far inferior to the ones we had suggested, which cost $60. They even tried to keep the brand new lights they had taken out, which we had paid for with the coach.

So, would you say I was acting unreasonably by expecting a little bit of customer service after spending $130k with them ?

Sorry for the lengthy rant - at least it's off my chest for today.



I do not think you are being one bit unreasonable.  I would suggest you contact KEN WARE and let him know I sent you to him.  Basically show him a copy of your post and ask him to help sort it out including no charge for the extra nights at rally park. Unless you advise me otherwise I will also try to get hold of Ken in the morning and let him know I recommended you contact him.  What you experienced is not anything like our very positive experience we had there.

Sorry to hear/read about the problems Paul, although in my experience they're not unusual. It's one reason you'll see us recommend that folks take factory delivery of their new coach. Of course, in your case, that wasn't practical and you have the reality of dealing with the situation now.

Personally, I'd write a letter to the head honcho of Lazy Days and one to Fleetwood (attach a copy of your letter to Lady Days). I'd also call Fleetwood and let them know what the dealer is putting you through. They might be able to brng some pressure to bear &/or help expedite things.

By all means follow Ron's suggestion, but I would not do this stuff serially.

Have you actually parted with your money? if not, hold onto it until you get things done the way you want them.
Thanks for the advice guys.

Lazydays actually have a Fleetwood rep on-site, which makes it more frustrating when they can't get the product right first time around.

Ive now just about got over my anger and frustration of yesterday and thought I would share one of the "little annoyances" which I couldn't understand the logic to :-

The Story of The Ladder :-

The ladder supplied for our coach was too short - when in place it hung down so that one rubber foot was against the coach and the other hung mid-air in front of the engine grill area.

Our Delivery Co-Ordinator (DCO) confirmed this was not a correct fit and that it was a warranty issue.

Knowing it could take 3 days for Fleetwood to authorise the replacement, we looked at several other unsold Expeditions on the lot and found all of the other ladders were longer and fitted correctly.

We explained this to our DCO, who stated that they "were not allowed to swap coach parts".

Here is their solution....She explained that Lazydays would send an estimate to Fleetwood for the fixed ladder on our coach to be removed. It would then be shifted to the right and be re-fixed. All of the old holes would be filled. The entire rear of the coach, and down each side for approx 6 feet, would need to be re-sprayed.

Honestly, that is their solution.

It took most of the afternoon, and very intense discussion, to finally get our ladder swapped.

Why wasn't this done immediately - excellent customer service and zero hassle.

Lazydays could then arrange their "re-build' for any unsold coach the ladder was swapped from, and it would be ready and complete for that buyer. It would still be easier and cheaper for the resident Fleetwood rep to source a longer ladder.

Anyway, that was just one of the stupid things which added together to make our Lazydays experience far from acceptable.

Add in similar unnecessary problems/obstacles that Lazydays put us thru for the 10 or so very minor, very easy to fix, problems we had and you will hopefully understand our annoyance.


PS We are back there on the 9th for all of the other issues to be rectified. I don't feel at all confident they will be done that day, so have decided to stay at Rallypark for 3 nights, paying $90 for a campsite we could have free at a Thousand Trails campground.


You are not being unreasonable but I'm not surprised you had this experience though I am surprised at the amount of dickering it took. Lazy Days has always been a little slow in getting things done. We've purchased two coaches from them and our first experience was similar to yours but no where near as bad. We had some warranty issues that appeared they should only take about 8 hours to resolve. It took them 3 days!

We found out one of their problems was not enough service bays or technicians. This should have been rectified since '98 but probably hasn't been. Sometimes a coach had to sit waiting for a service bay to perform the next job. However, you should NOT have to pay for camping fees. We have stayed many nights in the service bay waiting for stuff to be done.

As far as swapping parts, that is usually not allowed at any dealership. I work part time for one in the summer and we are not allowed to swap parts but have done so if we think we can get away with it so the customer will not be unhappy. The problem with swapping is the rig left on the lot is now short. If it gets sold the next day, and believe me that does happen, then we are back in the same situation. Also, if the tech doing the swapping fails to do the proper paperwork, then that part never gets ordered to replace the missing one.

Installing the wrong items is definitely there screw up and they should rectify it. We have come to the conclusion, after buying that first rig, that factory service is the only way to be sure the parts will be available and the work will be done in a timely manner. We have only had Lazy Days do repairs twice to our current coach in the past 5 years!

When making an appointment at Lazy Days we would always try to figure out how long it should take. Then we'd triple the time which would prevent a lot of frustration. We have also met some very nice people there going through the same problems. When we had our Country Coach we used to meet them every time we returned. :) Junction City, OR was too far away for factory service.

I forgot about the ladder! If there is an extension available that will fit properly, DO NOT let them move the ladder!! I would assume, and could very well be wrong, that there is additional blocking behind the fiberglass to support the ladder and the weight of someone using it. If they move it they very well might place it outside the blocking which will cause a failure down the line. Also the repair work and repaint could end up not looking as nice as the original finish.
Jim, Good catch on the blocking/re-inforcing required for the attachment points of the ladder.

Paul, if you have a camera, take a photo of the "wrong" ladder and anything else you might need in subsequent discussions with the dealer or Fleetwood.

Anytime a dealer wants to "move" something makes me worry. I forgot Paul's comment on the ladder until I posted the previous message. It may be there is a lot of support throughout the rear cap but I am doubtful. :)
Hi Jim

They DID finally swap the ladder for us.

I can understand (but don't agree with) the point about leaving the other coach short if they swapped parts, but surely there is one thing to remember.

I am a customer who has actually paid for a new coach - at this moment the unsold coaches are exactly that, unsold.

Even if a customer then came and wanted to purchase the incomplete coach, it SHOULD be Lazydays duty to inform that customer they can take delivery of the coach in 3 days, after the coach has been made 100% good.

I keep reading the Lazydays literature promoting "The Lazydays Delivery Experience" and the benefits of dealing with the Worlds largest RV dealership - certainly nothing like my experience.

As I stated previously, I was not expecting a 100% coach (although that IS what should be offered) and knew we would probably have to return for some of the issues to be rectified.

What I cannot accept is that the minor things couldn't be done very quickly and very amicably, and that they expect us to pay them whilst we stay for them to sort faults that shouldn't really have existed on a new coach.

During my short stay in the US, I have experienced far superior customer service at Publix Supermarkets ($10 spend) than I have at Lazydays ($130,000 spend).


BTW - we are sat in the rental villa waiting for a stop in the torrential rain so we can carry all our belongings to the coach outside. We are having a REALLY good start to our RV adventure. ?:'(

[09:40] OK, whilst Ann-Marie is in the coach stowing some items, she has found our first leak !! (I guess the rain has its uses).? :'( :'( :'( - I think I had better get ready for a week at Lazydays, given that the list is increasing.

[09:45] And now, she's found the second leak.

[11:30] The THIRD leak has now appeared - what the hell have we purchased here ???

You are surely not unreasonable and maybe even let them off easy.

Our experience buying at Lazy Days was essentially identical to yours and perhaps a bit worse, since we had a longer list of problems, some of which were fairly serious.  We experienced the same delay in getting a walkthrough, so  we went and found the coach outselves and inspected thoroughly while waiting for them.  It was obvious that nothing - not even a routine cleaning - had been done to prepare the coach for delivery and, like you, we had allowed them time and did not come to LD until they called and said "It's ready".  Our Delivery Coordinator said he could only get a couple things done that day, so we said 'fine, let us know when its ready for delivery and we will come back and pay for it'.  It was  altogether a very poor show and we refused to sign paperwork & pay until the work was done, which had a wonderous effect on their ability to get things done.  And, lo, they worked on it until 10 pm that evening and managed to get most of it completed by late the next day.  Including some bodt repair and paint work. We also refused to move the coach from the delivery area while it still needed work, but later relented at around 5 pm when everything that could be done quickly was completed.  Even that was a mistake, becasue they promised to get us an appointment either with the Lazy Days cabinet shop or our manufacturer's Florida repair facility to fix some interior cabinet and wall problems and they NEVER did, even thoughI called and emailed repeatedly. I eventually got the last of the problems fixed right at the factory in California, 8 months later.

The 3 days to get warranty authorization is a crock of ...[baloney?].  If you took the rig into the service department and they discovered a problem covered by warranty, they would fix it on the spot if they had the parts.  At worst it takes a phone call for authorization, but a factory authorized service center would not even need to do that for most items.  We have had warranty problems fixed while traveling cross country - we just make an appointment with a dealer and they fix whatever it is, right on the spot.

As you might guess, we are not big fans of LazyDays. I might buy another coach there, simply because their selection is great and they will negotiate the price, but I would be even firmer about laying down the law to them about delivery - "No pay until EVERYTHING is ready to go."

Please complain in writing to the general manager (not the sales manager - he was out of the loop the moment you signed the paperwork). It's the only way you will get any satisfaction at all.
I am a customer who has actually paid for a new coach

Paul, the unfortunate reality is that this often works against you; You get a lot more attention when you're still holding onto some or all of your money. Did you notice how congenial and "efficient" the sale was?

One factor that often gets in the way of prompt/efficient warranty repairs is that the repair/service department is usually run as a separate business and has to show a profit. They have little interest in your problems unless they're going to get paid for the parts and labour. That was one reason I waved my cheque in the air at the dealership and said "you'll get it when the service department does what I want". The service department immediately received a call telling them "do it and we (the sales department) will pay for it".

at this moment the unsold coaches are exactly that, unsold.

That's why a potential buyer will always find the red carpet rolled out and get the attention.

Note: I have no experience with Lazy Days and my comments above merely reflect my personal experiences with various other RV, Car and boat dealers.
I am in sales at Lazy Days, I work with your rep, and if you need someone to assist when he is unavailable, please call me.  It is unfortunate that these events do happen, and it isn't just us, it occurs everywhere, but we do take it very seriously, and we try to make every effort.  If I can help in any way, please call me, my extension is 4538. 

PS, this is me as a longtime forum menmber on a personal level, LD doesn't monitor here, (maybe we should?) 


Thanks for jumping in. After reading Paul's messages I considered asking you to get involved or suggesting he write to you, but didn't want to put you in a difficult situation.

You may recall that we used to "officially" have a number of manufacturers and other industry representation in the forum a long time ago. But their interest fell off, especially when they set up their own web sites. When I forst took over the forum from Ed I contacted each of these reps and confirmed my suspicion that they'd either gone away or didn't visit very often.

I've considered approaching the companies to join us again, but was a little concerned about it being misinterpreted as a request for financial support &/or an invitation to post ads. Re LD monitoring the forum, lemme think on it a bit more.

As I indicated earlier I have contacted Ken Ware and ask him to assist getting things resolved.  Ken is waiting an E-Mail from me.  Please look Ken Ware as he will be looking for you.  Hope this will help.  Ken is an assistant Sales manager and has been at LD for a long time.

Ken just called me back asking where the E-Mail was.

PancakeBill said:
I am in sales at Lazy Days, I work with your rep, and if you need someone to assist when he is unavailable, please call me.  It is unfortunate that these events do happen, and it isn't just us, it occurs everywhere, but we do take it very seriously, and we try to make every effort.  If I can help in any way, please call me, my extension is 4538. 

PS, this is me as a longtime forum menmber on a personal level, LD doesn't monitor here, (maybe we should?) 



Perhaps Don Wallace should take a look at our forum. I would hope he would be interested in the comments about his business and understand how far reaching this forum is now. It wouldn't take too many unhappy customers to get people to look elsewhere for an RV. I know they do about the largest sales of any dealership and therein lies a big problem. My experience is they are extremely interested in selling their products but don't have the support from the service end to handle all the sales. Therefore many things are promised but are undeliverable.

I know some of the people in service fairly well. Danny Moore, who now is in charge of all the service advisors, was our first service advisor with the CC. We got along well and I know he tried his best to get things done as quickly as possible. Sometimes there is just too much to do. Of course, the high end coaches are now taken care of very well with the all new Crown Club. Most of us cannot afford the entry fee anymore. :) When we first joined the Crown Club they didn't have anything other than the ability to park in their original campground waiting for service, and free, too, if I remember correctly. Now they have their own service bays and technicians. A great improvement but it has not helped the average RV consumer who doesn't have over $300K to spend on a rig.

I just hope someone there can straighten out the problem Paul is going through.

Hi Paul,

I'm glad they swapped the ladder. I understand you not agreeing with the no swapping policy. I actually disagree with it myself and was happy to find out we could do that on occasion. Again, the paperwork must be completed properly so the next customer isn't left waiting as well.

Now that you have found three leaks I think it's time for more drastic measures. I would talk to the manager of the delivery/service department and try to get some agreement on how things are going to be handled efficiently. If that doesn't work you might try talking to Don Wallace. I'm not sure of his exact title anymore but he was the owner a few years ago. It's starting to sound like he should be informed of all the problems you are experiencing and what hasn't been done to correct them. I'm hoping Bill and Ken will be able to get things going on the right track. Ken used to head up the service department so he should have some insight into what should be done next. If not, try to see Don.
Jim Dick said:
As far as swapping parts, that is usually not allowed at any dealership. I work part time for one in the summer and we are not allowed to swap parts but have done so if we think we can get away with it so the customer will not be unhappy. The problem with swapping is the rig left on the lot is now short.

Must be different at RV dealerships. In the '90s I worked at one of the oldest Buick dealers in the country. We pulled needed parts off of lot cars if needed in a pinch, I was even instructed to pull some HVAC modules out of a ParkAve while it sat on the showroom floor to repair a customers car that was a new model and parts weren't readily available. In our view customers would see that we would go the extra mile for satisfaction on servie. We routinely scored 98-100 on the CSI, Customer Service Index. And that was for $25-30k cars at the time.

Please keep us abreast of progress. I and, I'm sure others here, will be very interested to see if and how Lazy Days responds to your issues now that they have been given increased visibility both inside and outside the dealership.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are doing.

Was Ken awaiting an email from you (as you stated) or from me ?

I have no problems making contact with him if he wishes - please let me know.

I did have a brief chat with Bill (from this forum) earlier, and also left a voicemail message for my Sales Guy.

Hopefully things will start to happen on Monday and Lazydays will go all-out to rectify the issues on our coach when it goes back to them on the 9th.

- unfortunately, I still dont think things will improve too much, but let us see.

Be assured I will let everyone know what happens.

Thanks for all the words of support guys.



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