Chef Duane
Well-known member
Nah. You meant it the way it sounded. If you want to be fair, act fair.
Ban the EV?
- Thread starter DonTom
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Nah. You meant it the way it sounded. If you want to be fair, act fair.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
I think the vast majority recognize that there is a wide range of possible compromises and that some of them will eventually prevail. It's the extremists at both ends that perpetuate the debate. I'll readily admit that governments aren't often swift or sensible with finding compromises, but they stumble their way eventually. Especially when voters get vocal!
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
Never happen. Those in power now will not be in power then and things will shift again.
Babe2201
Well-known member
True statement or highly opinionated statement?
John From Detroit
Well-known member
The primary reason is resistance from the oil and gas industry. Most of the other concerns are false or temporary
Secondary emissions/reliance on fossil fuels for Electricity .
-Electric generators are easier to optimize than variable speed engines so.. False flag
Range anexity
-yes today that is an issue but range is growing and soon will be more than I can drive in a day.. Also there are ways to extend the range.. Some are ... interesting.. some are questionable but some will work well.
Concerns about recharging on the road.
- there are more and faster recharge stations dang near every day. HOWEVER Where as I can refill my gas tank in just a few minutes. They are not even close with EV's yet.
Infrastructure
- The GOP support for big oil love to brag about it. ONE of the elements of the Build Back Better economic plan currently in place is IMPROVING the infrastructure.. I've also submitted a suggestion but it may take a decade to filter up to a test program (or more).
High Initial Cost
- yes this is an issue but as more and more EV's are built down goes the cost relative to ICE
First responder/public safety/emergency
- Other than the dangers of LI fires.. I'm not sure what they are talking about.
True Radio reception in an EV can be an issue but this is fixable.
That MIGHT affect GPS and reception of "Alert" signals
But in an emergency shut it down and your cell works normally.
One potential issue is silence. EV's are not nearly as "noisy" from what I understand so To use an old term "Mr. Walkman" (Some idiot with plugs in his ears listening to audio on his device) may well not know he is in the path of an approaching.
Secondary emissions/reliance on fossil fuels for Electricity .
-Electric generators are easier to optimize than variable speed engines so.. False flag
Range anexity
-yes today that is an issue but range is growing and soon will be more than I can drive in a day.. Also there are ways to extend the range.. Some are ... interesting.. some are questionable but some will work well.
Concerns about recharging on the road.
- there are more and faster recharge stations dang near every day. HOWEVER Where as I can refill my gas tank in just a few minutes. They are not even close with EV's yet.
Infrastructure
- The GOP support for big oil love to brag about it. ONE of the elements of the Build Back Better economic plan currently in place is IMPROVING the infrastructure.. I've also submitted a suggestion but it may take a decade to filter up to a test program (or more).
High Initial Cost
- yes this is an issue but as more and more EV's are built down goes the cost relative to ICE
First responder/public safety/emergency
- Other than the dangers of LI fires.. I'm not sure what they are talking about.
True Radio reception in an EV can be an issue but this is fixable.
That MIGHT affect GPS and reception of "Alert" signals
But in an emergency shut it down and your cell works normally.
One potential issue is silence. EV's are not nearly as "noisy" from what I understand so To use an old term "Mr. Walkman" (Some idiot with plugs in his ears listening to audio on his device) may well not know he is in the path of an approaching.
Two points I’ll disagree with.
Range anxiety. Doesn’t exist with modern EV’s. Range anxiety was a term coined by GM to scare people away from EV’s. I can read a gauge. I’ve never had range anxiety and we have driven all over Canada and parts of the US. This may be model dependant though.
Charging times compared to gas. A typical supercharge is 20 minutes. It used to take us 5 to 10 minutes to gas the grand Cherokee, then go for a pee and get a coffee. When supercharging that’s a concurrent activity.
We go a roughly 940 kilometre road trip fairly often. We used to do it in a grand Cherokee. It takes the same time in the Tesla. And the tesla is a lot ballsier…and cheaper…and cheaper to drive. .
Just my humble opinion.
Range anxiety. Doesn’t exist with modern EV’s. Range anxiety was a term coined by GM to scare people away from EV’s. I can read a gauge. I’ve never had range anxiety and we have driven all over Canada and parts of the US. This may be model dependant though.
Charging times compared to gas. A typical supercharge is 20 minutes. It used to take us 5 to 10 minutes to gas the grand Cherokee, then go for a pee and get a coffee. When supercharging that’s a concurrent activity.
We go a roughly 940 kilometre road trip fairly often. We used to do it in a grand Cherokee. It takes the same time in the Tesla. And the tesla is a lot ballsier…and cheaper…and cheaper to drive. .
Just my humble opinion.
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DonTom
Well-known member
Doesn't exist with Telsa, especially not the long-range models (like mine, and I assume yours). But it still does exist with some makes which includes my electric motorcycles. And here is a recent example on Plugshare for 8th of May (just last week):
"It's slow, but thank god, otherwise I would never have made it to my destination, first time I've ever had range anxiety."
It's the check-in just before mine. But his vehicle type isn't listed.
And there are others, such as this guy who arrives at a charger that doesn't work.
"Both chargers are still broken. Make sure you’ve got a full charge in Carson City before coming up to Incline Village as there are no other fast charging options nearby."
The above guy is around 5 meters (see Plugshare map) form ten working Tesla Superchargers that he cannot use. They are all Version 2 (150 KW) Tesla Superchargers that cannot work with ANY non-Tesla and never will (unless some of them are replaced with V3 & V4, or better yet, Magic Dock).
Tesla drivers are spoiled. And I think CCS is a lot more reliable in Canada than in the USA. We have countless broken CCS chargers in the USA that are NEVER repaired. I could go more places three years ago than I can today my smaller electric motorcycles. I always check Plugshare in advance on my electric motorcycle rides to make sure they are working.
BTW, do they have EV-GO DC fast-chargers there in Canada? Every one of them that I ever used in CA and NV has now been broken for at least a year. I have yet to see even one repaired--ever.
As I said before, Tesla is the ONLY EV for anything serious, such as a drive across the USA. I cannot speak for other countries. But I think the main reason I see more Teslas than any other EV is because of their charging network. Kinda shows why so many other brands want to use the Tesla Supercharger. With those, it is the opposite, I don't think I have ever seen a broken one. Plugshare rates them all as a "10" from what I have seen so far.
Unfortunately, Tesla Supercharging is what I need and use the very least of all. My Energicas will only accept CCS and 3KW AC charging. It sure would be handy if they could charge with Tesla Superchargers. Then I could take them anywhere.
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom
Well-known member
I couldn't care less what others drive--except for when I am on a motorcycle in tight traffic with somebody's tailpipe is blowing their poisonous exhaust gases right into my face. Then I care. Do you blame me?
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom
Well-known member
I used to have two Grand Cherokees with all terrain tires.
The big surprise to me is my Tesla does better in the snow with the stock tires than did either of my Jeeps!
BTW, my buddy, Eric, who I purchased a Tesla with (we both bought ours on the same day)said he gets to PA (where he has family) a lot faster in his Tesla than he ever could in an ICE car.
But it's because of the self-driving SW he has in his. He drives across the country half-asleep which he couldn't do before in any of his old ICE vehicles.
BTW, Eric has more than 200,000 miles (320 KM) on his Tesla. I have around 16,000 (26,000 km) on mine. Both of our Teslas the same age right to the day in Nov 2018.
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom
Well-known member
I have no need to "act". But where would you say I wasn't being fair?
Can you give an example?
-Don- Reno, NV
John From Detroit
Well-known member
Thanks for that post.. I've heard that about the Tesla's (Lots of Horses) and you confirmed what I said about recharge times and range both improving over time.. A bit faster than I thought but still it's confirmation of what I said.
Skookum
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Posts
- 4,105
We had a little range anxiety when we first started driving our EV. 25% battery remaining somehow feels lower and more urgent than having 1/4 tank of fuel.
You practically expect the lights to start dimming and the wipers to move slower when the SOC gets low, but that's not the case at all. In our EV, the SOC or charge remaining is displayed as a percentage. On the other side of the screen is estimated range in miles. The car will give you full power all the way down to 0%.
The estimated range is highly conservative, and that's good.
You start to develop mental points of reference locally about where charging stations are. But you also may have the benefit of charging at home, like we do. "I need to fill up the car" is often resolved by "I'll just plug in when I get home".
On longer trips we just look ahead and plan our stops. Yes, it's an extra step beyond seeing a highway sign for a fuel station and thinking "I'll just pull in here". But I think that will start to change here real soon. The car also knows where charging stations are and will take you there. The Nav also accurately tells you what your SOC will be when you arrive at a programmed destination. Otherwise, you can safely rely on the SOC and estimated range remaining if you're just out driving around.
5,000 miles in 6 months so far. Two 800-mile trips, one in freezing temperatures and the other on a tight agenda to get there and back. Never ran the car to 0% or found ourselves in a precarious situation with charging.
You practically expect the lights to start dimming and the wipers to move slower when the SOC gets low, but that's not the case at all. In our EV, the SOC or charge remaining is displayed as a percentage. On the other side of the screen is estimated range in miles. The car will give you full power all the way down to 0%.
The estimated range is highly conservative, and that's good.
You start to develop mental points of reference locally about where charging stations are. But you also may have the benefit of charging at home, like we do. "I need to fill up the car" is often resolved by "I'll just plug in when I get home".
On longer trips we just look ahead and plan our stops. Yes, it's an extra step beyond seeing a highway sign for a fuel station and thinking "I'll just pull in here". But I think that will start to change here real soon. The car also knows where charging stations are and will take you there. The Nav also accurately tells you what your SOC will be when you arrive at a programmed destination. Otherwise, you can safely rely on the SOC and estimated range remaining if you're just out driving around.
5,000 miles in 6 months so far. Two 800-mile trips, one in freezing temperatures and the other on a tight agenda to get there and back. Never ran the car to 0% or found ourselves in a precarious situation with charging.
Chef Duane
Well-known member
See Post #16.
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DonTom
Well-known member
That stuff still runs on a well-regulated 12 volts. Most EV cars (both my Tesla and Chevy Bolt) have a 12-volt battery besides the main HV battery. Most likely yours does also. But on my electric motorcycles, only one out of five have use a 12-volt battery. The other four use a DC2DCC without a battery. Some EV cars even have a 12-volt alternator, belt and all. Others (Tesla) use a DC2DCC to charge the 12-volt battery from the main battery. It will stay at its normal charged (13.8 DC) voltage until the contactor in the main battery switches off which could be well after the car runs totally dead. Your 12-volt stuff should still work for quite a while after the car dies from having a dead HV battery. Radio, electric door locks, lights will still work when the HV battery is so discharged the EV stops.
But AFAIK, all EVs have a 12-volt system. But there has been talk about using a 48-volt system to run new 48-volt lights, etc. But I don't think any of those are yet on the market, it requires many changes as there are still a lot of 12-volt stuff in EVs just as in an ICE car. There are several advantages of using 48-volt stuff such as being able to run thinner wires for the same wattage, because of the lower current draw required with a higher voltage.
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom
Well-known member
When charge times are given, remember that it is very rare for anybody to charge from near empty to full.
But you can figure out the charge times with simple math. If you have an 80 KWH battery it will take 160 KW to fully charge it from empty in 30-minutes. Tesla has 250 KW chargers, so that is even faster. But your SOC% and battery temperature must be within the range to accept the 250KW. Above 80% SOC it will not accept anything near that 250 KW.
At 80% SOC the battery charger switches from CC to CV. When this once happens, the battery charge gets slower and slower as it fills up. Especially slow at 99% SOC.
Experienced drivers will only charge above 80% when the extra range could be needed. Rare for a LR Tesla these days.
-Don- Reno, NV
Using " antiques" as a pejorative is intended to imply that anyone who disagrees is out of touch while at the same time providing a clever "who me" if called on it.
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DonTom
Well-known member
You mis-interpreted what I said and meant.
Not everybody likes the "new" stuff on just about anything made. Cars / motorcycles are no exception. That was all I meant.
-Don- Reno, NV
I just returned from a 660 mi. road trip in my 4 cyl. Outback. Drove at 80 mph in Tx and 75 mph in La. Didn't need 12 adapters, a 100' 10 gauge extension cord, a book from MIT on EV charger technology, it cost a total of $60.00 in gas, when I did top it off didn't have a family picnic or read a book for awhile, the car holds it's resale value far in excess of an EV and cost 1/2 as much as an EV. Not bad for an antique.
That about covers the "who me" part.
Skookum
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Posts
- 4,105
750 miles out and back to Sandpoint, ID, between 70-80mph.
Didn't need 12 adapters or a 100' 10 gauge extension cord, and I left my books from MIT at home.
We didn't spend anything on gas. We did stop for lunch, as we always do.
And we drive a lot nicer car than a 4-cylinder Outback
