Confused...

[meaningful_meanderings]

Been looking at RV models, features, styles, capabilities, etc. for a while now. An interesting trend I've noticed is most seem to be three season, else I've been looking in the wrong places. Is it the cost of making one winter proof? I did run into one that boasted it could handle a Wisconsin winter but was more that I had budgeted. (Also confused about RVs claiming boondock but only one axle.)

Mainly looking for something inexpensive (probably used), light weight, dual axle, bumper pull, 20ft or less, four season, solar, with inside kitchen and bath. This is a first time RV, if it pans out then maybe move up after a few years; first I got to get the wife acclimated to RV life. (Don't want slide outs... for a couple of reasons.)

 

[Oldgator73]

Is it the cost of making one winter proof?

Maybe cost and weight or just not being able to insulate enough. But wintering in Florida would be much easier than wintering in northern Idaho.

Also confused about RVs claiming boondock but only one axle.)

Not sure what the number of axels has to do with boondocking. We boondocked on our property in Virginia with a single axle trailer.

 

[CharlesinGA]

I would think a single axle would be much easier to pull on forest service roads and other out of the way places. Also single axle will turn tighter than tandems. With tandems you are really scrubbing the tires on a moderately tight turn.

Four season is not just about insulation, rather its about EVERYTHING. Insulation, windows, plumbing, overall construction. Everything comes with a price.

I have a Bigfoot 21RB. It has insulation, double pane windows, a double layer skylight, plumbing all inside the heater area except the waste tanks which are shrouded and heated, and being a Fiberglass trailer its rather tight, but it is by no means a four season trailer. I tell people its a 3½ season trailer.

What tow vehicle do you plan to use, and what weight trailer are you looking for?

Charles

 

[1stimerver]

When we bought our first TT It was explained that as long as the temps got above freezing during the day that there would be no problem. You should be asking just this type of question, when considering trailers. It turns out that we do very little camping when temps stay below freezing throughout the day, so it worked for us... From the specs I read the furnace blows warm air into our sub floor area to keep things toasty, so I think the salesman was being a bit too careful.
Safe travels and all the best.

 

[meaningful_meanderings]

Maybe cost and weight or just not being able to insulate enough. But wintering in Florida would be much easier than wintering in northern Idaho.

Not sure what the number of axels has to do with boondocking. We boondocked on our property in Virginia with a single axle trailer.

Just figured it would be less drag towing off road. Less chance of bogging or getting stuck in sand or mud. Little more stability with a flat.

 

[meaningful_meanderings]

The weather conditions in some areas of our country can change quickly. I don't want to alter travel or risk damage to the RV because I got briefly stuck somewhere. Too, our Texas winters don't last long but can persist for a week w/o getting above freezing. It also bothers me that I can't move into the RV during an emergency like we had a few years ago with power grid failure and subfreezing temperatures for days. My fuel reserves will go a lot farther in the RV than my suburban house if it comes to that.

 

[Larry N.]

Some of the diesel pusher (DP) motorhomes, especially those with hydronic heating systems, can almost be considered 4 season, so long as that 4th season doesn't generally get below 0º F, or so. But in any RV you still have to deal with filling the fresh water tank and dumping the sewage tanks from time to time, which can get to be a large headache in a prolonged cold spell. Both the Beaver and the Ventana I had were fine in that down-to-zero range, for a little while.

But the north country, especially northern Wisconsin, Minnesota, Upper Michigan, etc. are still too much for those coaches for any length of time, and rather awkward even for just a couple of days up there.

Even stick and brick homes in many southern areas couldn't stand up to those northern winters, so you'll likely have to change your expectations.

 

[Excalibur]

Just curious... If you are looking for 20 feet or less, lightweight, why would you want a dual axle?

 

[NY_Dutch]

We spent a couple of nights in our motorhome with temps down to -4 deg.F, but we sure did use a lot of propane keeping our two furnaces lit. On the plus side, those two furnaces did keep us quite comfortable.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

the Ventana I had were fine in that down-to-zero range, for a little while.

Right, there's "getting through" a freeze and living in a deep freeze. I've done some trips where temps dipped to around 20F and did OK in my class A, but the water lines did freeze overnight. Windows would ice up and the heater ran a lot to keep up but for a couple days it was manageable. There'd be no way that'd be practical for an extended time, more than a few days. Maybe there's some "extreme" RV's and trailers from custom builders that have R19 or greater insulation in walls, all plumbing in heated space, thermopane windows and such that allows extended subfreezing temp living but it's not a market I think most mainstream builders are interested in. I know even if I had a camper that could do it, I don't want to be anywhere that cold, that long. The primary reason I live in NM . For mortals like us you come up with a contingency plan for dealing with a frozen spell (antifreeze in lines, flush with antifreeze, spare propane/electric heat) that ultimately concludes with moving towards somewhere warmer or parking it until spring.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Utclmjmpr]

Your confusion stems from comparing an RV to a house,, first an RV is NOT built to an established building code as homes are,, and are NOT designed or built to be lived in full time.. They have to be able to travel and be used in variable climates and conditions and to survive when used by folks with NO KNOWLEDGE of how to do it or,, how to protect it,, or how to operate most of it..A lot of damage can be had in the first few outings or travels..>>>Dan

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

An interesting trend I've noticed is most seem to be three season, else I've been looking in the wrong places. Is it the cost of making one winter proof?

Pretty much. Most customers aren't looking to use their RV in the winter anyway, so would much rather spend their money to get features of greater value to them. Also, high end models generally have superior insulation, weather-proofing, heating & cooling, etc. anyway, so they don't feature that in their advertising. At the lower end, such things are sometimes offered as an option, aka an "arctic" or "4-season" package. If available at all.

If you want a higher quality build & materials, buy one of the more upscale models. Buy used and go back enough years to fit your budget. It takes some extra searching, but there are plenty of well kept older RVs available and they are worth the price.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Never having looked, is there a "go to" four season make/model out there? I've seen where some are called four season but I'm guessing that's as much of a marketing term as a technical one. What would be common models you'd find in North Dakota used by the hardy few camping in February?

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Professor David]

Like others have written, RVs are not great in extremely cold or extremely hot conditions when even the best air conditioner(s) have a hard time keeping up even though the unit may be rated as "four season". Full timers generally move south in the winter and north in the summer. We got caught for a few days in very cold conditions (below zero and very windy) in Casper, WY coming back this year from AZ. We were comfortable inside but it wasn't a very enjoyable experience and used a lot of propane to the point of some concerns of running out.

 

[Adventurous Traveler]

I believe Artic Fox promotes four-season trailers or better-equipped 3+ season rigs featuring the embellishments already mentioned on this thread.

Good luck on your search and let us know your progress and if you find anything that'll fit your stated needs.

 

[Babe2201]

I am not sure if affordable, lightweight, and built to deal with winter in colder climates are 3 things that will not go together.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Been looking at RV models, features, styles, capabilities, etc. for a while now. An interesting trend I've noticed is most seem to be three season, else I've been looking in the wrong places. Is it the cost of making one winter proof? I did run into one that boasted it could handle a Wisconsin winter but was more that I had budgeted. (Also confused about RVs claiming boondock but only one axle.)

Mainly looking for something inexpensive (probably used), light weight, dual axle, bumper pull, 20ft or less, four season, solar, with inside kitchen and bath. This is a first time RV, if it pans out then maybe move up after a few years; first I got to get the wife acclimated to RV life. (Don't want slide outs... for a couple of reasons.)

You're looking for a unicorn RV. They exist, but they're rare.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

but I'm guessing that's as much of a marketing term as a technical one.

Yeap. That's the sales guys making a big deal about not leaving out something you may have expected to be there anyway. And often only 1-2 items, maybe a heater pad under the water tank or a bit more insulation in the ceiling.

There are no accepted standards for what "4 seasons" means, either formal or ad hoc. No ambient temperature ranges or water line freeze limits or energy consumption indexes like SEER or Energy Star.

 

[DutchmenSport]

Have you considered an "Ice House RV" or also called, "Fish House RV". They are VERY well built trailers, made to be driven over frozen lakes. They have portal holes in the bottom (the floor) that can be opened and then you chisel a hole in the ice through the open port, drop your fishing pole line in the water and catch fish in the comfort of your RV. They really do exist.

What's fascinating about them is, the body of the camper is built on a frame that raises and lowers, so the entire frame can lower directly on the ground. It's not on wheels now. When you go, you raise the body back up on it's wheels, hitch and go!

They are made to withstand freezing conditions as they are intended to be used for ice fishing. They are more common in the Northern, North states, like Wisconsin, North Dakota, Upper Michigan. They aren't horribly expensive either can come in sizes as small as 12 feet long, no slides. But I've not noticed or seen any with solar.

The first time I saw one in person was at Custer, South Dakota in a campground, parked across the road from us. It was the strangest thing I'd ever seen with it lowered all the way to the ground. It took me months to figure out what kind of camper that really was. But, it's called an Ice House RV.

They are different, but you might look into something like this.

Here's the Glacier web site. They are built in Minnesota. Enjoy and have fun researching: Click Here.

 

[Kirk]

I've noticed is most seem to be three season, else I've been looking in the wrong places. Is it the cost of making one winter proof?

The first part of that question is to define what you mean by winter proof. There are RVs that can be quite comfortable in winter if you are in the south but very few that qualify in the northern part of the country. If you visit the Rio Grande Valley in the dead of winter, you will see many people living comfortably in RVs there but if you visit any of the northern states in deep winter you will see very few. In addition, there are things that can be done to make an RV more cold weather usable but they will cost a lot more and they won't be light weight. Adding skirting to an RV will greatly improve it's ability to be comfortable in very cold weather and things like dual pane windows and added insulation help too but those add weight and cost.

(Also confused about RVs claiming boondock but only one axle.)

I don't understand what the number of axles has to do with being able to RV out in remote areas as I think of to boondock? In the 18 years that I lived in WY we stayed in an RV well up into the mountains in October and November to go hunting nearly every year and almost all of those trips we stayed in a single axle RV that we towed back to our hunting area via forest service roads. To live comfortably we always made up some type of skirting and we didn't try to keep things at house temperatures since we were all wearing thermal underwear to hunt. We also only lived that way for a week or two so could manage a bit more than at home for all winter.

Mainly looking for something inexpensive (probably used), light weight, dual axle, bumper pull, 20ft or less, four season, solar, with inside kitchen and bath.

There are very few RVs that are that small which meet the requirements you have because it would make them too expensive to sell well. For that sort of RV you need to go up in size and in cost. Light weight RVs have less insulation, single pane windows, and lots of aluminum in order to keep the weight and the price down. The Airstream REI Special Edition ranges from 16' to 20' in length, but they only have 1 axle. It weighs in at only 3,500# and the base price new is only $53k.

It also bothers me that I can't move into the RV during an emergency like we had a few years ago with power grid failure and subfreezing temperatures for days.

There are versions that you could if you keep the tanks full and have solar panels and lithium batteries. But the weigh and cost more than you are probably looking at. There are RVs that are built for ice fishing and those do have most of the things that you want, but they are heavy and expensive. Look at the Ice Castle, Glacier House, and the Yetti and any of those will do what you want.

ttiNever having looked, is there a "go to" four season make/model out there?

Look at the Ice Castle, Glacier House, and the Yetti.