Continuing saga of the Allegro Bus -The other two issues

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The dollar bill test sounds somewhat inconclusive, i.e. the seals aren't great but probably no actual gap. Perhaps contributing to the problem but not the main source. My own Norcold 1200 doesn't have a lot of resistance on the seals either. The design of the doors on this model make the test somewhat difficult to evaluate. Another sign of a leaky door seal is moisture condensing adjacent to the door, either inside the box or outside. Escaping cold air usually causes external condensation and intruding warm air condenses on the first cold surface it hits. But your surfaces aren't very cold either...

You really need to try an auxiliary fan in the outer compartment, to see what effect it has. If the interior fin temperature drops and the fridge begins to cool better, you have isolated the area to attack. If not, we have to assume the cooling unit is ventilating ok and the problem is elsewhere.

I'm beginning to lean toward a "hot box", i.e. very hot outside air surrounding the top and sides of the fridge and warming it faster than the chiller can cool it. This could be a missing or ineffective seal or baffle at the sides or top, behind the fridge, allowing the heated air there to surround the fridge walls. It is an all-too-common a problem, sometimes that way right from the factory.
 
Gary,

One thing I gleaned from watching one of the Ford's videos was to check the condensation drain.

I took the panel off the refer compartment and located the tube. There was a tiny plug in the end of it and I took that off. That plug was clogged closed so I cleaned that and took a coat hanger and carefully snaked it thru the drain hose about 2 feet until I touched something with some resistance. The drain hose was completely dry with no sign of any recent condensation having been there. I have had this thing running for a month now. Surely there would have been SOME sign of water having flowed thru it?

I cant see a way to check for blockage from the inside.

I heard at least one of the 2 fans it is supposed to have running because it came on while I was checking the drain tube. I ran and got a small mirror to try to see the other one but couldn't.

Todays fin temp was 27 and the inside water temp was 40. The outside temp was 62. The coach was sitting in the shade.

Dianne
 
Dianne,
Make sure you put that plug back in the hose. That plug keeps critters from getting up into the hose. Just make sure the hole is clear.
 
Yep, the plug is back in place!

I figured out how to get the top shelf off so I could make sure the drain isn't stopped up from the inside and I used the coat hanger to make sure the drain was clear.

I made a discovery about the refer working on electricity!  Just for giggles I unplugged the refer (didn't look quite all the way pushed in) and plugged it back in and set the control panel to "AC". Well lo and behold, it IS working on electricity now but the interior temp is no better than it was when running on LP but  it IS responding now at least.

I am encouraged at SOME progress anyway.

I would like to try the fan trick now. But I am confused. If I run the refer on LP when I do that, won't the fan blow the flame out? Which direction should the fan be pointed? Up? straight in or down toward the bottom of the compartment? I found a very small fan that I can just set inside there and use if I unplug the icemaker.

 
I make it a habit to clean that little plug at least 2x a season. I have two fridges and the drain tubes T into one in back of the fridge before exiting the trailer. I remove the plug and then pour hot water down each of the tubes from inside using one of those plant watering cans with the long neck, checking that the water lands on the ground outside and then clean and replace the little plug. I then pour a bit more water, once again checking the water flow out.

Normally those fans should blow upwards in the direction that the hot air flows naturally and no, you will not blow the flame out if you install the fans a bit up the chimney and blowing upwards towards the top vent.
 
Pardon me if this has already been mentioned. Is the coach absolutely level?

I recently went through a brief stay where the coach was on gas and electricity for a three day period but was out of level both side to side and for and aft. While it was still cold, it was not cold enough. I moved the whole coach and got it closer to level in the less than perfect conditions and the refer started cooling down again.

Similar conditions with outside temps in the 90s, fairly high humidity and a Dometic side by side that has been flawless otherwise. It's something to consider.

I've read every post and turned to page two of the thread hoping to see a solution. I didn't expect to run into a cliffhanger ending. I'm bummed for you.

 
I took a small desk fan out, pointed it upwards (hopefully its big enough) and hooked it up at 6pm.  Just before I did that I heard fans running. Traffic has died down and I feel pretty confident in saying that both of the Norcold's fans are running. I heard the same level of sound on both sides of the refer.

Waiting.

The coach is definitely level. I have double checked that as well.
 
Based on the fin temps you are seeing and your report that the factory fans are working, I didn't really expect the external fan would do much. It was, however, a needed step in isolating the problem.  I am now pretty much convinced the issue is excessive heat surrounding the box, top or sides or both. This is likely a factory-made deficiency, though it is possible that a baffle or partition has broken away after it was built. I know of two other Tiffin coaches that have suffered from improper installation of a Norcold 4-door fridge.  I'll give Tiffin credit though: when the problem was determined to be faulty installation, they manned up and paid for the repairs, even though the coach in question was two years out of warranty.
 
I have big news to report this morning!!!

Running on AC power with an ambient low of 60 overnight, at 9:45AM this morning the fin temp was 20 and the water jug temp was 34!!! It is now 68 degrees out. I will leave the doors shut and check it at the hottest point during the day to see whats what.



 
OMG!!!  It seems to be HOLDING!!!

AT 3:25PM DST  the fin temp was flickering back and forth between 21-22 and the water jug thermometers were registering 36!  The unit is still running on AC power. Thermostat is still set at 9.

Ambient temp is 84. Humidity is 39%.
 
The fridge seems to be stable.  Todays fin reading was 22. Water jug temp was between 38 and 40.


I started wondering...won't the fridge burn out if it has to be constantly run at full blast just to get a safe temp for food?

 
I assume, without reading every post and reply in the various threads you have on this subject, that these tests are being run with basically an empty refrigerator. IMHO, you will not know how effective or efficient the refer is going to be until you fill it with chilled food.  A leaky box of air can be very difficult to chill and to maintain an acceptable temp level.  Again just MHO.
 
No, an absorption fridge can run pretty much indefinitely that way. It has no moving parts - just an evaporation and condensation cycle. As long as the boiler heat is well-managed (insert an ad for the ARP controller here!) and the tubing doesn't rust out, it should last many years. There are absorption fridges made in the 1920's that are still operating well.
 
Lou,

I had to throw away over $100 worth of food TWICE recently due to this piece of crap. What I have in there now are 5 one gallon jugs of water. Three of them have thermometers in them. I can't afford to put more REAL food in there to go to waste until I have SOME inkling that the refer is performing better than it was. This seems like a miracle in comparison to what it has been doing.

Dianne
 
OK, fill it with something else, e.g. canned beverages, more water jugs, those freezable gel bags (they don't have to go in the freezer).

You now know the cooling unit itself is capable of adequately cooling the fridge, so one big item is now ruled out as the cause.  Still have to figure out why it gets warm some of the time, though it appears that the outside (ambient) temperature is what makes the difference.
 
Temp seems to be holding steady today, also. 

I brought DH home today and have been busy with his health issues.

Tomorrow I will add more items to see what happens.

Thanks for all your help.

 
After a few days running with 2 of 3 shelves relatively full, the refer is holding at a safe temp.

Perhaps whatever demon it had is now exercised!

Thank you all for your kind assistance!
 
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