Delete Tune on Diesel Pickup

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The biggest problem you'll run into is a licensed vehicle dealer will flat out refuse to purchase your truck from you if it's deleted.


The reason for the fuel economy improvement is you aren't doing regenerations which take a significant amount of fuel.

If you really want a deleted truck, you can legally buy one produced pre emissions and have it restored. There are companies that specialize in this. You can even swap in a new engine if you can find one as long as it was available in the truck.
 
And I will leave you with a moral issue. Emissions controls were mandated for a reason. Having lived in a highly polluted area (Salt Lake City), and routinely doing business travel to previously polluted but clearing locations like the LA basin and Denver, do you really want to move backwards on emissions? My children and grandchildren and their children will be living here long after I am gone, and I feel I have a duty to leave things as good as I can for them. You may feel differently.

The Los Angeles basin has had a smog problem for nearly 500 years. In 1542 when Captain Cabrillo sailed into the Santa Monica Bay he noticed the Native Americans living in smoke (smog) from their fires. He called the place the Bay of Smokes. The European descendents didn't create smog with introducing cars to Los Angeles.

Both Denver and Salt Lake City are at high elevation. What works to clean the air of car emissions in Los Angeles is less efficient at the high altitude. UV rays increase photochemical smog of these emissions.

My wife and I lived in Los Angeles for over 25 years until 1981. We also lived in Denver for 25 years. Even if cars were all zero emissions electric with batteries they are still much heavier and so tires wear out faster, especially the softer snow tires we ran on our ICE cars and trucks in Denver.

The only way to solve the smog problem in these cities is for everyone to leave. We live in Northwestern Colorado with some of cleanest air in the USA. If everyone living here drove a diesel truck and deleted the emissions it wouldn't make any difference to the air quality since the population density is from 4 people per square mile to none.
 
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Yes, there are natural smog basins, like Los Angeles.

No, 7 million people driving ICV’s belching PM 2.5 and other pollutants into the air daily in a natural smog basin, which then gets into the water, in the soil, in your food, is not helping anything.
 
Worn tires pollute 1,850 times more than tailpipe emissions according an independent study. Stopping a diesel delete tune isn't going to make up much difference due to millions of vehicles are going to get heavier.

 
I have a 2016 F250 and researched this extensively. My buddy had an older Ford that he deleted himself. His truck ran great and he was happy with it. I think the technology has come a long way and it takes more than shade tree skills to do it now.

While I'm basing this just on my internet research, I decided the expense and risk was not worth the gains.

I wholeheartedly believe that the truck would run better and last longer if deleted. The engine would be expelling crap into the air instead of reingesting it. That alone should improve performance, longevity and mpg. How much is up for debate.

I think the tough part is the tune. Pretty much anyone can swap out parts. There are a bunch of folks who CLAIM they can tune your truck but this is all underground. No reputable shop will do this except under cover of darkness. I don't think the EPA would go after an individual but they sure as heck have gone after shops and put bankruptcy size fines on them.

Right now, if my truck has a problem, I can take it to one of a dozen places where I live and get it fixed. Where do I take it if the engine has been completely reworked by Bubba?

It used to be possible to buy all the parts online and sign a paper saying (untruthfully) that it was for offroad use only. I don't know if those vendors still exist.
 
wow there is a lot of miss information here. DPF deletes are still allowed here in Alberta but not in most places, they are still done here and some Ford GM and Ram dealers will actually do them for you if requested. Some even keep the parts in stock.
that's black smoke you see coming out of the tailpipes in new trucks is NOT because of the DPF delete but because the person that tuned the truck - tuned it to run rich that black smoke is basically unburned fuel. Most trucks with dpf deletes DO NOT RUN BLACK.

There is no "tricking the computer" its reprogramming it and changing the parameters, its still done in the states using an "offroad" or "middle eastern" tune Bully Dog still sells them and they are a USA company

the Magnusen act passed in 1975 in the USA basically states in the case of a DPF delete that only if the parts changed can be proven to cause failure of the engine then the engine is still covered by warranty - which is why dealers here still offer them.














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basically its taking the down pipe out and plugging it and directing the exhaust away from the DPF filter which works by reburning the exhaust gasses that have passed through the exhaust manifold a second time at high temperature and soaking it in DEF fluid which is know as UREA which is short for 5% female horse urine.
by doing a DPF delete you increase the fuel mileage by 70-100% depending on what type of tune you program it to. and elminating the catalytic converters in the existing exhaust and replacing them with hi flow cats or no cats at all.
yes- the Deisel Brothers got fined 1million for PROMOTING DPF deletes and rolling black coal trucks but they also live in Utah where the rules are different than say South Dakota.

bully Dog which is an American company still sells tuners for DPF deletes
 
wow there is a lot of miss information here.
by doing a DPF delete you increase the fuel mileage by 70-100% depending on what type of tune you program it to.

Nope. A DPF delete isn’t going to improve mileage 70-100% even with a tune. Even in Canada.

Also, it’s illegal to remove a catalytic converter in all 50 States, even South Dakota.

DEF is urea and water. The urea used is synthetic (manufactured). They don’t actually milk the horses after letting them drink natty light.
 
Nope. A DPF delete isn’t going to improve mileage 70-100% even with a tune. Even in Canada.

Also, it’s illegal to remove a catalytic converter in all 50 States, even South Dakota.

DEF is urea and water. The urea used is synthetic (manufactured). They don’t actually milk the horses after letting them drink natty light.
like i said im not sure about the US rules as it may well be illegal to remove a Cat in the states i dont know your rules - and i a have been doing DPF deletes since the early 2000s well before the EPA shut everyone down at the SEMA show in 2011? and have seen many a case where improvements with H&S, Edge and other tuners hit 70% better mileage,
and while Urea in DEF fluid is synthetic. Urea was first discovered in urine by Dutch chemist Herman Boerhaave in 1727. and was used in early production in europe
 
In some states like here in Colorado the replacement of a worn out Federal catalytic converter is required to be a California compliant model which is substantially more expensive on my older 1978 and 1998 trucks. It a retroactive emissions law. Even though the nearest emissions testing is approximately 250 miles away.
 
Worn tires pollute 1,850 times more than tailpipe emissions according an independent study. Stopping a diesel delete tune isn't going to make up much difference due to millions of vehicles are going to get heavier.


I love this study. It's the whatabout of whatabout cards when arguing about vehicle emissions. There's another great quote which basically says the methods and measurement of this claim can vary substantially and the results need to be heavily scrutinized.

Quoted from the study itself,

"Nevertheless, it is important to say that a gentle BEV driver, with the benefit of regenerative braking, can more than cancel out the tire wear emissions from the additional weight of their vehicle, to achieve lower tire wear than an internal-combustion-engine vehicle driven badly," the report says.
 
like i said im not sure about the US rules as it may well be illegal to remove a Cat in the states i dont know your rules - and i a have been doing DPF deletes since the early 2000s well before the EPA shut everyone down at the SEMA show in 2011? and have seen many a case where improvements with H&S, Edge and other tuners hit 70% better mileage,
and while Urea in DEF fluid is synthetic. Urea was first discovered in urine by Dutch chemist Herman Boerhaave in 1727. and was used in early production in europe

You are correct, Alberta does not have laws requiring cats. It's a very different situation in the US, however. Even in other Canadian Provinces.

So I think this 70% better fuel economy claim is what drives me nuts because it sounds like it enables a truck which normally gets 16mpg stock will get over 27mpg average just by deleting the DPF. Horsefeathers.

It's a claim I think is looking at a very specific and narrow situation, which is when the ECU is completing a regeneration of the DPF. For those who don't know, fuel is supplied to the DPF during a regeneration cycle to increase its temperature so it burns off soot collected in its filter material. In a completely stock vehicle, a driver may notice a slight reduction in instant fuel economy while a regeneration is happening. But that's the thing. Regenerations happen on a determined cycle and they are not happening all the time. The effect on average fuel economy over the life of the vehicle is minimal at best. It's not taking a 70% reduction in fuel economy over the life of the vehicle.

So, point in time, maybe. But I think most consumers of these tunes and devices aren't the types who get analytical with data and look for actual studies. They are more likely the kind who read on a message board that someone else achieved a 70% improvement in fuel economy...and most of those people aren't actually interested in fuel economy, they're interested in big turbo whistle and dura-brap sounds from the exhaust when stomping on the throttle ;)
 
I agree there will be improved fuel economy with a full delete. My instantaneous economy while driving without a load on the highway will be ~12 l/100km (19.6 mpg) and when it goes into regen this will be up to ~23 l/100km (10.2mpg) so during the regen process it is near double. This process may take 20 - 25 minutes depending on the soot load. The frequency of this regen varies between ~270 km (168 miles) in town to about 800 km (500 miles) on the highway. It only makes sense that if you plug up the exhaust, it will make the engine work harder to push the gases out. A harder working engine burns more fuel.

For me the reasons my truck will be deleted are:
  • the heat generated by the regen process is extreme and tends to melt my rock tamers (I do have a heat shield on the RH side on but if stuck in traffic and not moving it still does get pretty hot
  • it is super annoying when it starts a regen when you are nearly finished your drive. When this happens you are best to keep driving and waste fuel till its done.
  • DEF is getting expensive.
  • and the #1 reason - the emissions equipment is very sensitive/complicated and no time is a good time for it to laydown on you and go into limp mode.
Since I have an L5P Duramax my delete is not cheap ($8-9000CAD). But I will achieve improved mileage, will have cleaner oil (due to the EGR delete - no animal was meant to eat its own s*it), won't have to worry about starting a grass fire, and the truck will be more reliable.
 
I read about tuned trucks all the time on a couple Duramax forums I frequent... as well as all the problems with tunes. There are tuners (the people who do the re-programming) who can really screw up a truck over time, if they don't know what they're doing. Plus you're asking the truck to perform in a way that its stock components were not designed to support, so all sorts of potential issues around turbos, up pipes, down pipes, gaskets failing because of the extra pressures being generated.

Even if you get the right equipment and a good tuner, the combination of equipment + service can easily get into multiple thousands of dollars. Will you really get that amount of utility out of that "upgrade"? Only you can decide that, but I've chosen to keep my Duramax stock... with a few standard, proven upgrades like a bigger intake that are fairly inexpensive, and can only help.
 
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Interesting. I’ve owned diesel trucks and never waited for a regen to complete. Never been left in “limp mode” or any other nonsense. If I interrupt a regen it continues when it thinks it can pick up next. Never had bad DEF. It’s not that problems can’t or won’t arise from a more complicated emissions system but I’m not going to pay thousands of dollars for aftermarket junk on top of thousands of dollars for buying a diesel and then dismantling a federally required system and limiting my repair and resale options, and reducing my truck’s reliability. Certainly not in the name of a vanishingly small gain in fuel economy. But, some diesel boys gonna diesel no matter what you tell them.

Like…maybe 37” tires and a 12” lift has a bigger effect on fuel economy than getting mad at the EPA and tearing apart the emissions system, bruh..
 
wow there is a lot of miss information here. DPF deletes are still allowed here in Alberta but not in most places, they are still done here and some Ford GM and Ram dealers will actually do them for you if requested. Some even keep the parts in stock.
that's black smoke you see coming out of the tailpipes in new trucks is NOT because of the DPF delete but because the person that tuned the truck - tuned it to run rich that black smoke is basically unburned fuel. Most trucks with dpf deletes DO NOT RUN BLACK.

There is no "tricking the computer" its reprogramming it and changing the parameters, its still done in the states using an "offroad" or "middle eastern" tune Bully Dog still sells them and they are a USA company

the Magnusen act passed in 1975 in the USA basically states in the case of a DPF delete that only if the parts changed can be proven to cause failure of the engine then the engine is still covered by warranty - which is why dealers here still offer them.














.

basically its taking the down pipe out and plugging it and directing the exhaust away from the DPF filter which works by reburning the exhaust gasses that have passed through the exhaust manifold a second time at high temperature and soaking it in DEF fluid which is know as UREA which is short for 5% female horse urine.
by doing a DPF delete you increase the fuel mileage by 70-100% depending on what type of tune you program it to. and elminating the catalytic converters in the existing exhaust and replacing them with hi flow cats or no cats at all.
yes- the Deisel Brothers got fined 1million for PROMOTING DPF deletes and rolling black coal trucks but they also live in Utah where the rules are different than say South Dakota.

bully Dog which is an American company still sells tuners for DPF deletes
You must be a shill for bully dog.
And YOU are the one posting misinformation here. The DEF is made with 100% synthetic urea not female horse urine.
Doing a DPF delete will absolutely NOT give you a 70-100% increase in mph regardless of any tune you may have, that is total BS.
Also Canada will soon be catching up to you and your deletes.

New emissions regulations in Ontario will affect any trucks traveling in the Canadian province. Ontario will increase its focus on truck emissions in 2020 as the province prepares to crack down on anyone that bypasses emissions controls, and includes equipment from other jurisdictions in on-road enforcement efforts.


New tests established by the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks will focus on ensuring that required emission control systems are in place and operating as they should, in a fight against tampering and the use of so-called “delete kits.” The sale of emissions control defeat devices will also be prohibited.
 
You must be a shill for bully dog.
And YOU are the one posting misinformation here. The DEF is made with 100% synthetic urea not female horse urine.
Doing a DPF delete will absolutely NOT give you a 70-100% increase in mph regardless of any tune you may have, that is total BS.
Also Canada will soon be catching up to you and your deletes.

New emissions regulations in Ontario will affect any trucks traveling in the Canadian province. Ontario will increase its focus on truck emissions in 2020 as the province prepares to crack down on anyone that bypasses emissions controls, and includes equipment from other jurisdictions in on-road enforcement efforts.


New tests established by the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks will focus on ensuring that required emission control systems are in place and operating as they should, in a fight against tampering and the use of so-called “delete kits.” The sale of emissions control defeat devices will also be prohibited.
Lmao thats from 2019 its now 2022

and if you bothered
To read my post i stated early def in europe was made with urine. And yes we still do dpf deletes here and they still do high flow cats and cat deletes in california which was illegal in the early 2000s and yes you can double your mileage unless you put crazy hp and torque tunes, how do i know - oh wait we are doing them and so are gm ford and ram dealers in alberta and warranting the trucks still
 
Lmao thats from 2019 its now 2022

and if you bothered
To read my post i stated early def in europe was made with urine. And yes we still do dpf deletes here and they still do high flow cats and cat deletes in california which was illegal in the early 2000s and yes you can double your mileage unless you put crazy hp and torque tunes, how do i know - oh wait we are doing them and so are gm ford and ram dealers in alberta and warranting the trucks still
And for the records I am not "shill" for "Bully dog" fact is Edge was a much better program and H&S was better yet, but Edge paid the Epa $500k and agreed to quit making programs and Bully dog bought out H&S there are several independants including people like Dirty Diesel -But- Bully dog is easier to deal with so long as you do a "Tow" tune and basically only increase hp and torque by 10%
 
I know just enough about the subject to be dangerous but I am curious about it and wonder if someone might have some experience and/or advice they can offer.

I am not even sure I have the terminology right but, as I understand it, a trained technician modifies the computer on your diesel pickup in such a way that it bypasses some emission control devices. The bypassed components are then physically removed and the exhaust system is modified in some way.

My understanding is, doing a delete results in a significant improvement in fuel economy - supposedly in the 35%-50% range. Frankly, it is this claim that has attracted my interest.

As I understand it, modifying a pickup in this manner is not exactly legal but enforcement is lax, at least at the consumer level.

I guess I am interested in opening up a discussion on this. Have any of you folks done it? What are the downsides? Do you have any concerns about what might happen down the road, legislation and enforcement wise, that will make you regret your decision to delete?
For your reading pleasure: Diesel Ram Owner Crushes Truck After State Orders Deleted Emissions Fix
 

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