"Don't fly over water"

[A Traveler]

I think there’s another reason why Boeing has undergone a quite dramatic fall from grace over the last few years. Just a few days ago they were in the news bragging about how they had achieved 90%+ of their “DEI” goals.

If indeed the terrible virus of “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion” has infested Boeing, they are now assigning employees to tasks based on their race and ethnicity, not their talent, merit, skills, and ability. That is the kiss of death for any organization. One only has to look at the sorry state of our federal government to see ample evidence of this.

“Go woke and go broke.” is a real thing.

 

[ferfer]

I do not know why you are not showing the same amount of anger when Texas and Florida Governors transport migrants as you do for your perception it is some hidden ICE/federal government?

Watch this and you will b3come more aware.
80K came across the border at Lukeville last year. They are not in the area, so someone is transporting them and this is it.

IMO nothing from James Edward O'Keefe III and his O'Keefe Media Group & Project Veritas is unbiased and can be considered a credible source. James O’Keefe is an far right activist with a history of less than honest reporting.

Although I have no wish to follow the story I can tell you the Ann Ott Elementary School is for Asylum Seekers with no federal involvement. It is supported by many Phoenix agencies.

Jennifer

 

[Wasillaguy]

I do not know why you are not showing the same amount of anger when Texas and Florida Governors transport migrants as you do for your perception it is some hidden ICE/federal government?

Because Texas and Florida are making no attempt to hide what they are doing. They are representing their constituents and removing the problem from their state.
Contrast with an operation that is clearly trying to operate outside the public view. Red Cross, Catholic charities, and who knows how many other organizations are trafficking humans with our own government.
You can stomach O'Keefe long enough to watch the content, just replace his bias with your own. It's better than just saying you "aren't aware".

 

[Jayflight]

I do not know why you are not showing the same amount of anger when Texas and Florida Governors transport migrants as you do for your perception it is some hidden ICE/federal government?

Way back in Oct. 2021 it was reported that the feds were flying illegals to New York in the dead of the night. I bet you have no outrage about that.
Of course you are probably not interested in the link. But its reported on plenty of outlets

The Biden administration has been quietly flying underage illegal immigrants from Texas to New York late at night for more than two months in an effort to resettle the tens of thousands of migrants taken into custody at the border in recent weeks, according to a new report.

As far as it goes with Texas, would you allow hundreds of people that you have no idea who they are, by proportion to enter your home with no job, no money and no real clothes and take up residence? By the way do you have locks on your rv or house? Most folks practice locks on their doors .

And of course we saw how fast the illegals that landed on Martha's Vineyard were shipped back out of the island. The elites said "Not on my door step"

 

[Ray-IN]

Because Texas and Florida are making no attempt to hide what they are doing. They are representing their constituents and removing the problem from their state.
Contrast with an operation that is clearly trying to operate outside the public view. Red Cross, Catholic charities, and who knows how many other organizations are trafficking humans with our own government.
You can stomach O'Keefe long enough to watch the content, just replace his bias with your own. It's better than just saying you "aren't aware".

Point of order_. Those states are not removing illegals from their state, they are sharing the burden since they are overwhelmed; IMO.
This is a very complex problem for the entire free world. Totalitarian countries don't have this problem.

 

[Skookum]

Sigh. This turned into another conservative bitching fest.

 

[ferfer]

Because Texas and Florida are making no attempt to hide what they are doing. They are representing their constituents and removing the problem from their state.

So the only problem is you do not know for a fact that the gov. is transporting migrants but you whine because it might be so per some very suspect reports? You whine because charities are supporting migrants and helping them travel to sponsors?

Way back in Oct. 2021 it was reported that the feds were flying illegals to New York in the dead of the night. I bet you have no outrage about that.
Of course you are probably not interested in the link. But its reported on plenty of outlets

Yes some migrants are flown for several reasons and none of it is hidden. Unaccompanied minors are flown to sponsors for safety reasons.

As far as it goes with Texas, would you allow hundreds of people that you have no idea who they are, by proportion to enter your home with no job, no money and no real clothes and take up residence?

Did you bother to notice what state I live in?

By the way do you have locks on your rv or house?

I have been locking my house etc. since the 1950s, a LOT longer then your fear of migrants. I will add most of those years were in Texas or Arizona. And the cherry on top is I am female so I guess by your expectations I should be shaking in my boots.

So much fear, so many conspiracy theories, such loud voices even when they contradict themselves.
Jennifer

 

[Wasillaguy]

So the only problem is you do not know for a fact that the gov. is transporting migrants but you whine because it might be so per some very suspect reports? You whine because charities are supporting migrants and helping them travel to sponsors?

If me whining were the only problem, there wouldn't be any problems.

 

[Jayflight]

FerFer, why do people that lock up their doors in their homes care not a wit about locking up the borders? There is no true security screening of the ones coming in other than what amounts to about 10 to 15 minutes talking along the border. That's a joke to a national security issue. But its also overwhelming the infrastructure of the entire nation. But to the core of what we are witnessing, is called the Cloward-Pivens Strategy, and on full display.

 

[John From Detroit]

Well since the thread is about Boeing....

Boeing Boeing! (TV Movie 2013) | Comedy

Boeing Boeing!: Directed by Caroline Frerichs. With Wilbert Gieske, Jon van Eerd, Irene Kuiper, Lone van Roosendaal. Bernard has problems preventing his three girlfriends finding out about each other.

www.imdb.com

 

[John From Detroit]

So the only problem is you do not know for a fact that the gov. is transporting migrants but you whine because it might be so per some very suspect reports? You whine because charities are supporting migrants and helping them travel to sponsors?

It is per very well documented reports But that's another topic for another place and it's a political issue.. As for the charities.. I actually have helped to support one of those so I do not wine about them... But that's not the problem. Politics is the problem and a prohibited topic.

 

[Ex-Calif]

Airlines are complex machines with more and more systems controlled by wire. Is there any senior manager with multiple engineering degrees, aerospace, electrical, mechanical, structural, software, etc., etc., etc., that can look at multiple systems and determine their efficacy and safety?

This is a distorted view of airline maintenance. I was a field engineer, embedded with the airlines for my whole career. Look at aircraft maintenance more like a hospital. The pilot writes a complaint, a mechanic/inspector (technician/nurse) evaluates the problem and fixes it or refers it to a "specialist" engineer, structural, electronic, engine, HVAC etc. etc.

The engineer has limited power to go beyond the manual - using DER (delegated FAA authority) - these are called minor repairs or alterations. If the problem is beyond that, then that's when a factory/manufacturers rep may be called.

That's what I did. And then (engines) I had access to metallurgists, designers, and a whole army of factory support to design "major" repairs. Even as the manufacturer we could not just issue these repairs - we needed FAA approval to do so.

Their training or lack thereof. Did you know that Lion Air is not allowed to fly in the US? I wonder why that is?

That the owner of Lion Air, Rusdi Kirana was a street wise hustler that sold typewriters on the streets of Jakarta.

I ran Asia for 25+ years. I met Rusdi on several occasions - Your description of him isn't fair, or at least complete. He is cut in the mold of Richard Branson, Tony Ferrnandez etc.

To better characterize Lion Air - the CEO was his son. Another son became the head of a motorcycle manufacturing company.

Rusdi was a self made millionaire. No one calls Richard Branson a street hustler.

Then became involved in the travel industry when he realized there was a need for more planes to carry passengers around the islands. That's when he started Lion Air. From what I've read, he wasn't big on quality and sometimes bought used parts for his fleet of 737's. And sometimes bought junk from unscrupulous dealers who would never be allowed to sell parts in the US.

The boom in Low Cost carriers is not unique to Indonesia or Asia. Anyone heard of RyanAir? JetBlue, Spirit?

IN my 15+ years of working with Lion Air I never witnessed them knowingly buying junk parts. Used parts are a fixture for airlines. Fedex and UPS fly the largest cargo fleets in the world. You think they are making parts for the 747-400 any more?

The details are nuanced but the reason Lion Air is suspended is statistical. When an airlines incident rate reaches a certain point they get suspended.

I won't air too much dirty laundry but I testified to the DGCA (Indonesian FAA) on some of their problems along with Airbus and Boeing. I will only say that Garuda (the national airline) was also suspended for a time. Philippine Airlines was suspended for a time. It is not unheard of for this to happen.

I might get in trouble for saying this part publicly but the regulatory authorities ability to "properly" regulate the whole industry in the country was a contributing factor.

 

[Larry N.]

Thanks for that writeup, Dan. Most non-aviation folks don't really understand that, except on experimental aircraft, everything must be FAA approved, including the actual procedures used in maintenance, aircraft parts, and even record keeping as well as approval needed for much in actual flying. And even the experimentals need FAA approval for much of what they do in both maintenance and flying. It's a lot more than going to the auto parts store.

The aviation experience is MUCH different from what is experienced elsewhere, and not just in the actual flying.

Well done!

 

[UTTransplant]

Well said Dan. I have flown on aircraft with an “experimental” sticker on the door, and it certainly isn’t a “let’s try this and see if it works!”

 

[UTTransplant]

But my more general comment is that this thread demonstrates why the self-styled conservatives don’t get a lot of nuanced discussion with others. No matter what the original topic, they always change it to “illegals” and “ruining the country.” I feel sorry for them that their sole purpose seems to be wrapped up in those topics. Kind of boring.

 

[Wasillaguy]

Kind of boring.

We could talk about EVs

 

[garyb1st]

I take it you did not read the New York Times article written by William Langewiesche. It's both interesting and well written.

FWIW, I'm not defending Boeing.

The article presents a damning story of both Lion and the pilots who flew the planes. I've never heard of Langewiesche and it's certainly possible he had an axe to grind with Lion. But I'm also curious about why the Times would publish such a story.

The article suggests Boeing was looking at the downside of pointing the finger at Lion and their pilots. There were significant risks to Boeing if they went down that road. The risk associated with losing several billion dollars in aircraft sales. The risk such a move could possibly end up putting another nail, maybe the last nail, in the coffin of the 737 program.

I don't know how Langewiesche could know what was behind Boeings decisions to not defend this case and hopefully it's not conjecture on his part. If so, shame on him and shame on the Times who published the story. But I can tell you based on my personal experience in major litigation, high level business decisions are made on much more than just engineering data.

 

[Oldgator73]

There were significant risks to Boeing if they went down that road. The risk associated with losing several billion dollars in aircraft sales.

I will never purchase another Boeing aircraft. I’m done.
Joking aside, when I fly I don’t pay attention to the type of aircraft or manufacture of aircraft. Just not on my radar.

 

[Larry N.]

damning story of both Lion and the pilots who flew the planes.

Why the pilots? And I can't read the story, but it wasn't the pilots' fault that info and training were withheld, that the airplane developed a fault and a poor design.

Granted that Langewiesche had an excellent background, being a professional pilot and son of Wolfgang, author of Stick and Rudder, a superb book and viewpoint in its own right, one I've depended on for decades.

And I'm not saying pilots are perfect, they're not, but why in the case of the two crashes?

 

[John From Detroit]

I looked up why Lion is not allowed to fly in the US.. I won't bore you with the reason
But the article that Google found was talking about a plane crash. Another Boeing.
(Note Boeing makes a lot of airplanes used in passenger service so it is likely just a coincidence that the plane in that article was one of theirs... Lots of air miles. Lots off flight hours all with safe landings when the planes are well maintained. )