Embarassed...please help :(

[SteelHeadR]

Have you ever driven a 6.2/6.5 equipped truck?  I had a C3500 with a 6.5 for two years and what a dog, it runs out of power quickly with very little load and the fuel mileage is terrible.  I never count those engines as true diesels, they cannot be tuned and when compared to the best (powerstroke, cummins and D-max) motors there is no contest.  There is a reason GM was able to put those engines in half ton trucks, they werren't capable of breaking half ton driveline components.
As far as the 6.0, the reason I didn't mention it is because of it's lack of reliability.  I have two super duty's, both are crew cabs, both are lariats, my work truck is an 04 dually with a 6.0.  Now, it'll pull like a locomotive but I will NEVER tell someone that I recommend that motor.  I can tell you that I am one of hundreds of thousands of 6.oh owners who have had to replace head gaskets, bed plate, injectors, EGR cooler (twice), EGR (6 times) and the turbo.  Very hefty repair bills and not only that but the 6.0 is the sole reason Ford and International seperated and sales dropped.  Now they build an in house 6.7 liter that is extremely impressive if you can afford a 2011, it is capable of 20+ MPG out of the box and it's smooth and quiet power is startling.  The 08-10 6.4 sequential turbo is a very good motor too but fuel mileage isn't very good, too bad there isn't a sub/x style vehicle in chryslers stables, a sub or x with a cummins would be a good seller.

No, I haven't driven a GM diesel.  Neither am I recommending one.  You commented that GM never put a diesel in a 'burb, when in fact they did.  Whether it meets your or anyone else's expectations is a completely different matter.

I also did not recommend the 6.0L Ford diesel.  Mentioning when something was made is not a recommendation.  Fact is, the 6.0L engine is famous (infamous?) for its many problems.  I have heard that this engine was Ford's worst for warranty claims up until model year 2006 when it became its least warranty claim engine.

All US built diesels made after 2006 have a lot of extra anti-pollution gear on them that makes me question their reliability.  Since these are relatively new designs, as far as the anti-pollution gear goes, it may be a while before we really know how reliable they are.  I'm thinking that as the part count goes up, the reliability will come down.  That seems to be the way of most machines.

As to what would be a great truck, my dream machine would have a Ford chassis and cab, a GM / Allison tranny and suspension, and a Dodge Cummins engine.  Not that this is ever likely to show up but I would think that it would be a pretty decent rig.

Ed

 

[mayfair]

As to what would be a great truck, my dream machine would have a Ford chassis and cab, a GM / Allison tranny and suspension, and a Dodge Cummins engine.  Not that this is ever likely to show up but I would think that it would be a pretty decent rig.

Ed

It's funny, because i think that's pretty much everyone that I know of's ( myself included ) dream truck as well.

 

[tvman44]

1st thing I would do is weigh the TT and see if you have 10 to 15% of total weight on the tongue also make sure the trailer sits level or slightly nose down when towing.  These 2 things should take care of most of the sway.  Let us know how it turns out.  Even thou you probably have too much TT for the TV I really think you may be able to salvage everything.  FGood luck and let us know if you have any more questions.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

No, I haven't driven a GM diesel.  Neither am I recommending one.  You commented that GM never put a diesel in a 'burb, when in fact they did.  Whether it meets your or anyone else's expectations is a completely different matter.

I also did not recommend the 6.0L Ford diesel.  Mentioning when something was made is not a recommendation.  Fact is, the 6.0L engine is famous (infamous?) for its many problems.  I have heard that this engine was Ford's worst for warranty claims up until model year 2006 when it became its least warranty claim engine.

All US built diesels made after 2006 have a lot of extra anti-pollution gear on them that makes me question their reliability.  Since these are relatively new designs, as far as the anti-pollution gear goes, it may be a while before we really know how reliable they are.  I'm thinking that as the part count goes up, the reliability will come down.  That seems to be the way of most machines.

As to what would be a great truck, my dream machine would have a Ford chassis and cab, a GM / Allison tranny and suspension, and a Dodge Cummins engine.  Not that this is ever likely to show up but I would think that it would be a pretty decent rig.

Ed

You're correct, i worded my original post incorrectly, I shouldn't have said that GM never installed a diesel in thesub.
Also, your dream truck is identicle to mine (and many others), if the new ford 6.7 and 6 speed trans keeps proving themselves the way they are right now than I may have to change my mind.  20mpg and almost 400hp is tough to beat. It would take a heck of a motor to knock the cummins off the dream list of many though, tried and true.

 

[ahuster]

I just recently upgraded TV from an '01 F150 1/2 ton to an '01 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1L. What a world of difference while towing! I really wanted a diesel Excursion but could not find one for a decent price. I decided that for the 8-10 trips a year towing a gasser would do the job. It took some searching but I found the Suburban on Craigs list for $8000. With the 8.1 and 4.10 gears it has a towing capacity of 12,000lbs according to Trailer Life's tow guide. This would easily pull your TT and I would recommend it or the Excursion.

 

[glfredrick]

I feel for you.  You've ended up in a bad situation, where it seems as if you loose something no matter which way you turn.

I like the E350 superduty (Ford) van idea.  I have 6 of them in my fleet and they are equally as powerful as the trucks, and can haul quite a load.  I've also found that vans tend to tow well also -- sometimes better than pick ups, which seem to be too light in the rear at times.

I'd also be thinking "used" and with the idea that a perfect tow rig for your application may require some creative thinking.  Find out where they sell used fleet vehicles in your area, and frequent those places.  At times they can go for really low prices, but can also need some work to be fully operational.  For instance, I purchased my 96 Dodge 2500 w/Cummuns diesel for $400 and it included a snow plow.  I sold the plow for $1000, so the truck paid me $600 to take it home.  I've since modified the engine and drivetrain for more power and towing capacity, knowing that the only differences between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton vehicle of this sort is springs.  I can now tow 8000# almost like I could drive the truck empty when I first brought it home.

You can expect to repalce tires with solid heavy duty truck versions (E-rated), add air bags or some other suspension strengthening device, a good weight distributing hitch with sway control, upgraded (better than OEM) brakes, added coolers for oil and transmission, etc.  On the interior, even a plain vanilla work van can be made comfortable with available 1/2 ton van parts, which are all over the country at various salvage yards for very reasonable costs. 

In the end, you can have a custom tow rig (tow pig!) that will take care of that big old trailer.

Here is a good place to start!

http://www.penskeusedtrucks.com/used-trucks-for-sale/used-van-trucks/

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-1991-Ford-E350-7-3-Diesel-Van-Braun-wheelchair-lift-/330454984323?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf0a6e683

Room for 4 extra kiddos with added seats!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-TURBO-DIESEL-HEAVY-DUTY-VAN-AMBULANCE-WORK-TRUCK-DIESEL-1995-E-350-/280541755025?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4151977691

 

[bigseadaddy]

1.  Am I correct in saying I need either a new TV or new TT? (Please be nice)
2. Are there any TV's that seat 6+ people that could tow something this large?
3.  If no to #2....can you think of an appropriate tt that would fit this layout (u shaped dinette, queen bedroom with door, bedroom with bunks to sleep 4, basically a similar layout to our current tt).
4. Any advice to how we should approach the tt dealer.  We want to email her first.  Look, I know we screwed up and were totally taken, but what can we do to minimize our loss?  We aren't argumentative people and I don't want to get "taken" again. 

Thanks for your help, go easy on me

It has been a while that I have posted (tend to lurk) but I just wanted to share.  We have four kids and tow a rockwood 8317ss.  Floor plan is almost the same as yours.  We tow with a F250 v10 with a 4.30 rear.  I have a supercharger on mine that makes up for loss of breath in mountains and she tows like a beast.  Yep all six of us fit in this truck with no worries.  We do 8-12 hour days with no issue. 

It is just a thought as the E350 would be an option as others have said....but if you ever want to go with a 5th wheel your back in the same spot!  We learned a long time ago if something did not have a dual purpose or use...we do not need it.

Good luck

 

[MikeyInNY]

This is possibly a bizarre suggestion, but why not find a seasonal site for the camper now, and when you can afford to upgrade the tow vehicle, then you can take it on the road.  This way if it fits your lifestyle now, you can enjoy it now.

 

[w5yne]

MikeyInNY,
                  I like the comment below your name " 20 years in the navy time to see the USA"
Being from the UK i hear far to many of people here explaining how they want to visit Europe or England because its so pretty, i always ask if they have explored much of the US, most reply they have never left the State they live in, so my reply is ALWAYS " America has so much to offer, you need to explore your own contry before putting other places on a pedestal"

Yes Europe is a very nice place to visit but America has so much to beauty its unreal.... and the wife and I will be trying to ake our lil camper to see as much as we can

Just my point of view

Wayne 

 

[maicokid]

I feel for you.  Although you probably have a zero chance of it happening you should take this back to the dealer and demand  a different camper that can be towed by your Durango.  Unfortunately that camper may be too small for your needs I don't know.  In any case this dealer would be hard to trust. This dealer is like some others(not all) that will sell you anything regardless of  the safety issues involved for you and the public  unless obviously  its unsafe like selling someone a 28' TT  and using a VW Beetle tow vehicle.  Look for a dealer  who believes in selling you a camper that will be safe for you to tow with the vehicle you have, as in the long run they should understand that will be the best deal for both of you and them.  Finally you are now obligated  to let others whom you know are interested in a camper first understand what is needed to tow a camper before purchase and secondly be sure and direct them to RVForum to do their research(where objective information on towing can be found) before purchase of a tow vehicle and camper.  Finally, you are not alone.  I did the same thing you did only slightly less, but none the less required me to get a different truck.  Good luck.

 

[MLCBFarrell]

I second the idea to set up this TT in a seasonal site. Find a campground that offers things for the kids to do, and enjoy it. We LOVE ours, and if I were in your shoes (and could afford a seasonal), that's what I'd do. We travel with ours, but the first summer we owned it we set it up as a seasonal, and we had a blast. I drove back and forth to work every day from the campground, and the family had the pool, etc. to enjoy. The thought of it all being set up & ready to go like a seasonal would be is appealing-you could just drive there with some food/clothes, and camp away! The kids could take as many friends as would fit in your Durango. And, I'm really concerned with the hit you'd take if you took that trailer back to the dealer. It's NOT going to be worth what you paid for it, even if it IS a 2010. You've learned the lesson that I almost did-NEVER believe the dealer when they say you have a big enough TV. It was these fine forum folks who helped me avoid the same situation.
Enjoy your Jayco-I can almost guarantee that if you decide to downsize, you will be bummed out and it won't be long before you'd be thinking of something bigger anyway. And don't be embarrassed...we've ALL made choices and decisions that we'd call embarrassing-it's part of being an RV'er!

 

[SteelHeadR]

You're correct, i worded my original post incorrectly, I shouldn't have said that GM never installed a diesel in the sub.
Also, your dream truck is identicle to mine (and many others), if the new ford 6.7 and 6 speed trans keeps proving themselves the way they are right now than I may have to change my mind.  20mpg and almost 400hp is tough to beat. It would take a heck of a motor to knock the cummins off the dream list of many though, tried and true.

I do agree with your opinion that the early GM diesels weren't much to brag about.  The newer Duramax engines seem pretty good as TVs, though.

I don't know much about the new Ford 6.7L engine.  I am hoping that they learned a lot of valuable lessons from all the problems that the early-mid 6.0L diesels gave them and that this newest engine will be really good.  They do seem to have the HP, torque, and fuel economy problems well in hand.  I don't know anyone who has one of these so will have to browse the Ford truck forums to see what others who do own them are discovering.

I'm now shopping for a TV and am looking at both 3/4 and 1-ton models with either the Ford / International 7.3L diesel or the Dodge / Cummins 5.9L diesel.  Either of these should do the job in a 2001-2002 truck.  Would like to get a 5-speed manual but DW rejects that idea.  She CAN drive a stick shift, she just doesn't WANT to.  Sigh.  Will have to go with an auto but few of them impress me as being up to handling the torque of a strong diesel engine.  Might have to just get the truck, drive it for a while, and then have its trans rebuilt with high performance parts that can withstand routine heavy duty use.

Ed

 

[glfredrick]

I'm now shopping for a TV and am looking at both 3/4 and 1-ton models with either the Ford / International 7.3L diesel or the Dodge / Cummins 5.9L diesel.  Either of these should do the job in a 2001-2002 truck.  Would like to get a 5-speed manual but DW rejects that idea.  She CAN drive a stick shift, she just doesn't WANT to.  Sigh.  Will have to go with an auto but few of them impress me as being up to handling the torque of a strong diesel engine.  Might have to just get the truck, drive it for a while, and then have its trans rebuilt with high performance parts that can withstand routine heavy duty use.

I'm on several Dodge/Cummins forums, and own a Dodge/Cummins 5.9 myself, and the autos handle the power output better than the sticks in those model years.  They ABSOLUTELY need a few performance adders to do so, however.  It won't take a total rebuild though, and you don't need all the high buck billet input shafts, etc., that are out there for guys making 700+ HP.  What is required are:  A GOOD single-disk torque converter w/billet face that can withstand 750 ft. lb.s of torque -- cost is around $600 or so, plus installation; a performance valve body that supplies oil to the torque converter while in park, and that boosts system pressure to levels where the already adequate clutch plates and bands can apply firmly enough to handle the torque load -- cost is around $350 plus instation; and, synthetic transmission fluid, either Amsoil or Dex VI, or equivalent.  The reason for these two fixes (plus the good oil) is that the engines produce so much torque at low rpm that the transmission is unable to make enough internal pressure to apply the clutches at that low rpm.  Decent valve bodies or shift kits help remedy this issue.  The good lock-up converter lets you have all the advantages of a clutch and manual transmission once locked up (and it is possible to make a switch to lock on your demand!) with great fuel economy and power application.

The issue with the manual transmissions is that, first, the clutch cannot take the torque load, and you need to upgrade to a performance version, cost is equal to a torque converter, if not more.  Next is the bearings tend to get loose, which causes gear wear and bind, plus the syncros go out all the time, causing hard or popping-out-of gear shifts.  Finally, 5th gear often fails as the nut that holds the gear in place spins off the rear output shaft and lets the gears slide apart.  All of these things cause rebuilding, and the manual transmissions in those are from manufacturers who are now out of business (partially due to the automotive cruch a couple of years ago).  Parts are EXPENSIVE and very difficult to find, and if repairs are needed, often the best parts are imports that are not very durable.  Virtually everyone making big power with these trucks is using the auto, which is a decent piece if built correctly.

The 5.9 engine is a super piece for towing and fuel economy.  Mine does better than 20 mpg empty and towing 8000# on a thousand-mile round trip through the Ozarks netted me about 17 mpg loaded.  I'll take that sort of performance!  I have boosted power somewhat.  I've added a #10 fuel plate (gives close to full rack travel in the fuel injection pump most of the time except off-idle and at part-throttle cruise), a turbo orfice (allows turbo to spool up to 38 psi versus the factory 14 psi -- more air, more fuel can be burned, more power produced), a HUGE air filter for easy breathing, a governor spring kit that raises the fueling rpm of the injection pump from about 2200 rpm (place where it de-fuels) to about 3400 rpm (and I can boost that to 4200 rpm with an additional spring if I want more headroom when downshifting), timing advanced to 16*, and a few transmission mods, a gauge panel (have to KNOW what your engine is doing or you can melt it down).  The truck (a 96 12V) now puts out close to 300 hp (up from the factory 160) and about 700 ft. lbs. of torque (up from the factory 450).  It doesn't really even care if I have 8000# hooked on behind.  It just flat hauls.  8)  Newer mods include a new torque converter, larger injectors, a new larger turbo, a new 4" exhaust, and a few other smallish mods that will eventually net me 450 hp, and 900 torque.  At that rate, a lot of guys are getting over 20 mpg towing, loaded and having no problems on any hill in North America.

 

[dvredc5]

You might have already heard more than enough but we had a 2001 Ford Excursion with the V10 and replaced it with an 04 Excursion with the 6.0 diesel.  Prior to that we had several Suburbans (2500 or 3/4 ton models all with their largest gas engine).  We preferred the Ford gas V10 over the Chevy and really love the diesel.  Hard to fine a clean diesel but they are out there and there in no better SUV for hauling big, heavy trailers and passengers plus cargo.  Both of ours have had the 4 bucket seat configuration so a total of 7 seating capacity.  Up until this summer we pulled a 32' long enclosed snowmobile trailer and also a 30' TT, both weighing 8,000 to 10,000lbs when fully loaded.  We added a weight distribution hitch for the TT because the tongue weight is so high.  I also installed a set of rear air bags which lets me adjust the ride for when it's just 1-2 or us pulling the trailers or if we have the Excursion fully loaded to.  The relatively soft rear springs of the Excursion are the only complaints most have of the vehicle for heavy duty towing.  With the diesel and 3.73 gears we cruise along in overdrive at 70-75 mph with either trailer with power to spare and usually get around 10-12 mpg depending on the wind and which trailer.  The TT is wider than our V-front 7' wide snowmobile/motorcycle trailer.  I've pulled long and heavy trailer all my life (49 now) and many with undersized and underpowered vehicles.  The longer the trailer the longer wheelbase you need to do it comfortably and safely.  The tires on the tow vehicle make a tremendous difference and ONLY use load range E if possible, minimum D for what you are doing.  Anything else adds to the vehicle sway and overall instability.  Lots of good tire choices out there today in various rim sizes and styles. 

You could spend a lot of money and do what you can to upgrade and improve the performance of your Durango but the reality is it's just too light duty of a vehicle for what you now own.  You learned the hard way you can't trust the "experts" if they are the one selling you something.  I've had dealer after dealer try and sell me a 1/2 ton truck for my needs because they had one on the lot and didn't have the 3/4 ton I really needed.  I've also had RV and other trailer salesman try to tell me a lighter duty vehicle could pull the trailer I was looking at.  First questions I ask when shopping for a new RV or tow vehicle I ask - if i get B.S. and lies I run for the door because they won't be honest about anything else. 

Good luck and hope you get something worked out.  I know it's hindsight but don't be afraid to ask people here on the forum - there is a wealth of information you can get and it's free!

DV     

 

[DearMissMermaid]

There is another alternative, until you can figure out whether you are getting a bigger tow vehicle or selling the existing travel trailer.

Look for a campground within weekend range of your home.  Park the travel trailer there on a monthly, seasonal or annual lease.  Enjoy the travel trailer by utilizing it on the weekends, vacations, holidays etc.  You won't have to tow it because it will already be there.

You can simultaneously put it up for sale and still use it while considering if you can get a better tow vehicle at some point. The travel trailer might sell in a week or a year, the market is fickle.  But at least you could enjoy the thrill of owning it and using it, even if you have to park it in one spot for awhile.

Another possible option is go back to the dealer and tell them it was a huge mistake all around and see if they can work with you to work out a better match.  However, it sounds like the sales person was eager for the sale and if you had showed up with a VW bug to tow it, they would have enthusiastically told you it was possible.

Try to find a way to enjoy it.  Depending on where you live, there might be some really cool spots to park it for awhile within an hour or so from home, while you ponder your next move.

 

[harleybass47]

Used Chevy or GMC 2500 with duramax/allison tranny combo. should be able to find one for around 30K it will never even know the trailer is behind you.

 

[DearMissMermaid]

only 30K???