F150 + Passport= too heavy?

[Lzerarc]

Hi All- new here, but I have been reading for some time now.  Last year we bought a Passport Elite 31RE.  It has a GVWR of 8000lbs, however my loaded weight with gear is about 6850 to 6900 depending on food and drink amounts. 

The TV is a 2012 F150 Lariat, 3.5 ECO, screw 4x4.  Heavy Duty tow package on the window sticker (was in the glove box) but what is confusing is it only has the 3.31 axle with a tow rating of 8100 lbs.  It does have integrated trailer break control.  The GVWR is 7200 lbs, which makes my payload right around 1600 lbs.  The GCWR is 14,000 lbs. 

Measured TW is 765 lbs loaded (listed at 690).  I have a e2 WDH.  (1000/10,000). 

For the estimated cargo weights, I also have some confusion.  I have read on here, as well as other forums, that the driver and gas is included outside of the 1600 lb rating.  However I have also read that you need to include that as well, such as according to the Ford Towing Guide.  Obviously that changes my numbers quite a bit.  Assuming the driver (150lb) and gas (216 lb) are not included, here are my numbers for in the truck:

Myself and Wife, + 2 small dogs-  415 lbs
tongue weight- 765 lbs
cooler for drinks/other- 50 lbs
hitch- 80 lbs
bikes- 20 lbs
gas- 216 lbs
everything else we put in the TT
= 1546 lbs  <  1600 rating

obviously if you add a kid (we are currently expecting) we would add another 50-100 lbs worth of weight. 

here are all numbers laid out (please point out any mistakes I have made!!)

GVWR:  TV- 7200 lbs    TT- listed at 8000
actual-        7150                            6900
GCWR-        14,000                        (6900+1546+5600-765)= 13,381 -  barely under
max tow-    8100                            6900 * 10%= 7590-  just under
GVW-        1600 rating,  1550 actual-  barely under


We have pulled it about 6 times last year, staying within a 3 hr radius of our house.  We pull mainly flat terrain living in Iowa.  However we would like to go long distanced with it at some point after we become more used to it and better at the whole RV thing.  IT pulled fine as far as I could tell.  Iowa stays pretty windy, with 15-20 mph winds fairly constantly, and pulling at 60-65 mph everything kept pretty straight.  Truck easily wanted to go above 70 and under 3k RPM, but I noticed sway starting to increase, so no need to speed. 

So my question is this: given the numbers, everything is right at the limits as it sits today.  My thought is I am ok for keeping it close to home, but we have considered trading the truck for a 2016 F150 that comes with much higher ratings.  (1950 payload, 11,400 max tow, 16,900 combined rating).  Perhaps we do that when we decide to go further trips that might experience some steep roads?

 

[b17drvr]

It is unusual to see an F150 with the tow package that has the3.31 gears. Most I've seen have the 3.55.

 

[grashley]

Welcome to the Forum!!!

Thanks for joining us!

You have done a great job assembling numbers.  Here are some often misunderstood definitions

Max towing rating is generally generic for all F150 models.  If specific to your cab / bed / engine, etc, it will still  use the base model (XL) with NO options, NO cargo, NO hitch, a full tank of gas and a 150# driver.  This is for advertising only.  If you tow 8100 # TT, the Ford engineers will say you are overweight.  You failed to account for the weight of options and the hitch.  Starting in 2015, they also allow one 150# passenger.

Where did you get your Payload number?  The published number again assumes an XL with no options.  The REAL number is on the yellow label on the driver door B pillar.  It is specific to your truck based on the weight as it left the factory.

Payload, or CCC include a full tank of gas, but nothing else.  Driver is NOT included.

Assuming your real CCC is 1600#, then
415  +  765  +  50  +  80  +  20    =  1330#    Actual truck wt is 5600  + 1330  =  6930#

GCWR  =  6930  +  7000  -  765  =  13165#  Actual truck wt + actual TT wt - tongue wt (counted in both truck and TT wt)

It certainly appears you are in very good shape.  You are 270# below truck CCC and 835# below GCWR.  You still have plenty of room for the baby (congratulations!) and several years of growth.

I see no reason to get a different truck to tow this setup.  If you plan to cross the Rockies for vacation, just expect to slow down a bit.  If you plan to live out there and cross them often, you may want to upgrade the truck.

 

[Lzerarc]

Great. Thanks alot for the feedback.  The numbers I posted were from the trucks door panel.

So do I have it right that no numbers include the driver (150) and that needs to always be accounted for?

Thanks

 

[DwayneN]

Here is a link to an online calculator to determine how actual weights compare to the CCC.

http://towingplanner.com/Calculators/TowingPayloadEstimate/?ccc=1600&dw=200&pw=215&hw=80&tc=100&bd=50&ct=TT

 

[grashley]

You do have it right.  Driver weight is not included in CCC.  It is included in "max towing", but the correct CCC is not used, nor does it include any cargo.

 

[retiredcajunlady]

To say I know little about all these weights in an understatement.  But I did find this guide a while back,and it helps.

http://webcontent.goodsam.com/trailerlife.com/digital_editions/TrailerLifeTowGuide2016.pdf

iI feel silly even answering since my level of knowledge is just a tad above zilch, but I do hope this guide helps.  Happy trails and safe travels!

 

[Lzerarc]

What possible issues are faced if the ccc is exceed by 100 to 200 lbs but all other numbers are still under? I do also have different tires on it now that are rated higher than what came oem.  I also typically over inflated slightly too.

 

[RVRAC]

If you say "pulling at 60-65 mph everything kept pretty straight." , why don't you consider not to go over 65 mph?  After all, your TV tires are rated to a max of 65 mph.  I would suggest you stay below 65 mph, and per your words, you should be fine.

 

[grashley]

What possible issues are faced if the ccc is exceed by 100 to 200 lbs but all other numbers are still under? I do also have different tires on it now that are rated higher than what came oem.  I also typically over inflated slightly too.

The rig will not self destruct.  Realize you are really pushing the envelope.  Slow down and add extra braking room.  When you upgrade, get a truck with higher CCC.

Are the tires rated to carry the full load?  Check each axle separately!

Why are you over inflating tires?  This will not help weight capacity and can lead to premature tire failure and other towing issues.
If the tires are rated for 3750# each, 7500# for the axle, at 80 psi, and the axle is only carrying 6000# (80% of rated capacity), then 70 psi cold pressure is sufficient to carry the load.  It will ride better and likely tow better. 

Under no circumstances would I intentionally over inflate a cold tire above the sidewall rating!

 

[Wldor]

Up until ~3 months ago I had a '13 F150 Ecoboost FX4 Screw 4x4 w/3.73's and tow package. By the book, I was able to tow up to 11,300lbs?

? but I quickly learned that: "just because it can, doesn't mean it should".

Our 2010 Sprinter 311BHS is around 8250lbs dry, and adds a couple of '000lbs loaded. She's also almost 36' hanging off the rear bumper.

On the flat or inclines, that truck had power to spare - a phenomenal little motor (sure, gas mileage was appalling, but for outright power, it was unbelievable). BUT get me on the freeway and amongst tractor trailers, and the trailer sway was ridiculous (even with anti-sway & WD hitch & LT tires on the truck). Likewise, coming down even moderate hills I'd often be riding the trailer brakes much of the way to prevent the trailer trying to push the truck off the road and into a ditch.

That little F150 is a great truck for many reasons, but I lost sight of the fact that it is (and always will be) a half-ton truck with half-ton brakes and half-ton weight.

I traded her back in March for the bigger 3/4 ton truck I *should* have bought to tow that trailer with in the first place, and haven't looked back yet. If you're already contemplating a truck upgrade, I'd suggest considering something bigger/heavier than the F150. From a purchase standpoint, there's not much in it (cost-wise) anymore, and travelling with the trailer will be far less 'uneventful' (and that's a good thing!)

 

[Lzerarc]

quick update. I tried it a couple more times with the '12 f150, and I did end up trading in my truck.  I traded it for a '16 F150 with max tow package.  This put me at a payload of 1800 lbs, tow rating of over 12k, and a 3.55 gear box with the 3.5 ecoboost.  There are also a few other features as well.  I have towed a couple times since, and there is a big noticeable difference.  It is more quite, does not shift nearly as often, and certainly handles 5%+ grades much much better. I did briefly look at 3/4 tons, but for a 6500 lb trailer, I decided that was very much over kill.  Plus I am safely well under my payload.  We are taking it to SD next week with my brother and wife for a week trip, so that will be the first real test.  thanks for everyone's feedback.