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I've distracted from this thread a bit, but watched this Cybertruck feature by Hagerty Driver's Club. Jason Cammisa has been doing material for them and I think he's really good.

Watch in 4K if you can, and turn up the sound!

 
Here's a little hysteria to add to the equation. I don't know how much of this is totally accurate (the tonnage numbers seem high) but I have always said that a lot of the "externalities" of EV batteries are ignored by the proponents.

When one considers how much oil is being drawnout of the ground to fuel the world it's staggering.

I always think what if you waved a magic wand and tomorrow we relied 100% on mining and manufacturing of batteries.

Either way I am convinced there is no relief in sight for the environment as long as man is on the planet.

1701953114448.png
 
Here's a little hysteria to add to the equation. I don't know how much of this is totally accurate (the tonnage numbers seem high) but I have always said that a lot of the "externalities" of EV batteries are ignored by the proponents.

When one considers how much oil is being drawnout of the ground to fuel the world it's staggering.

I always think what if you waved a magic wand and tomorrow we relied 100% on mining and manufacturing of batteries.

Either way I am convinced there is no relief in sight for the environment as long as man is on the planet.

View attachment 169571
Okay. Now do the materials required for an engine block, transmission, rear end, Cadillac converter and exhaust system.

And then do the process to make the 42 tons of gasoline a car will burn in its life.

And at the end of its life the battery is recycled and 94 percent of the material recovered. With fossil fuel it’s one and done. Poof.
 
One of the problems is people see some of the negative impact of EVs and they think no, not ever, let's stick with the status quo. It's a reason that EV shouldn't exist or be explored further when, in fact, EV needs to become mainstream to receive the same level of investment and interest in its evolution just like we've done with ICVs over the years. This is how ideas are promoted in a capitalist world. Drive up efficiency, drive down cost. EV's have come an astonishingly long way in just 25 years.

There are very pro-American ideas rooted in EV. When global ICV production is starting to centralize in places like South Korea and China because of cost, EV gives a new opportunity for America to be first. If people think "economy" is domestic jobs producting things like oil, minerals, cars....well, we have a pretty darn good opportunity to do things our way.

The ecological disaster that is the Salton Sea could be transformed here shortly. Huge resources right here under US soil. Lots of jobs. Lithium to produce American-designed, American-built, American-sourced cars right here in the US:

 
Here's a little hysteria to add to the equation. I don't know how much of this is totally accurate (the tonnage numbers seem high) but I have always said that a lot of the "externalities" of EV batteries are ignored by the proponents.

When one considers how much oil is being drawnout of the ground to fuel the world it's staggering.

I always think what if you waved a magic wand and tomorrow we relied 100% on mining and manufacturing of batteries.

Either way I am convinced there is no relief in sight for the environment as long as man is on the planet.

View attachment 169571
Actually, the Caterpillar 994 advertises itself as consuming 910 gallons during a 12-hour run. That's 76 gallons per hour, or almost 3500 liters. I'm sure they are being conservative with their numbers.
 
Okay. Now do the materials required for an engine block, transmission, rear end, Cadillac converter and exhaust system.

And then do the process to make the 42 tons of gasoline a car will burn in its life.

And at the end of its life the battery is recycled and 94 percent of the material recovered. With fossil fuel it’s one and done. Poof.

I would point out that the iron in the engine and drive train is in fact recyclable.

While the battery may be highly recyclable the processes are pretty dirty. My broader point is the sustainability of lithium and cobalt mining.

I personally believe we need to pursue EVs. Especially in short haul urban environments where all the factors and inconvenience of cross country travel does not apply. I would like to see legislation that does not dictate federal EV mandates but mandates based on city size. Like any city with more than XXm people must be 100% EV by YY date.

My personal believe is that oil will last until after I die. I am OK with it running out TBH as it apparently eventually will.

1701973700834.png
 
I would like to see legislation that does not dictate federal EV mandates but mandates based on city size. Like any city with more than XXm people must be 100% EV by YY date.

Is there currently any legislation which mandates purchasing of EV's by the general car-buying public?

I'm not aware of any such mandates.
 
Is there currently any legislation which mandates purchasing of EV's by the general car-buying public?

I'm not aware of any such mandates.
Not directly, that I am aware of. But, with such mandates in place such as "80% of all (new) vehicles sold in XX state/city will be EV by 2035", they are, by default, forcing many people to buy an EV if they want any kind of vehicle at all. The next step will be to make it illegal to cross a state/county line to purchase an ICV if you live in said geographical area in your city/state of residence.
 
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New vehicles. Buy used ICE all you want.

I wonder if the price of used ICE vehicles will then go way up. I assume they will.

-Don- Reno, NV
You're right, that is what I meant. I fixed it. And yes, probably the market for used ICE vehicles will go up - initially, as they are quite high now - but eventually the market will become flooded and the price will bottom out again. You wouldn't believe what I got for my 23-year-old Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4 with 190,000 miles this past spring. Way more than I would have thought if I had been in the market to buy one that old. It took a lot of the sting out of putting 50% down on my new truck.
 
Not directly, that I am aware of. But, with such mandates in place such as "80% of all (new) vehicles sold in XX state/city will be EV by 2035", they are, by default, forcing many people to buy an EV if they want any kind of vehicle at all. The next step will be to make it illegal to cross a state/county line to purchase an ICV if you live in said geographical area in your city/state of residence.

Seems unlikely, and isn't something that keeps me up at night. I'm not aware of any mandates to buy an EV, either.
 
Cobalt is not needed anymore these days for EV batteries except for longer range EVs. I assume the technology will soon be able to get rid of all the need for cobalt in EV batteries.

-Don- Reno, NV
They expect the petroleum industry to use more cobalt than EV’s within 5 years. It’s already close.
 
Interesting, but for what?

-Don- Reno, NV
It’s a key ingredient in the refining of gasoline and diesel. The petroleum industry was one of the principal markets for cobalt until EV’s came along. Handheld devices are the biggest user.
then EV’s,
then alloy manufacturing,
then the chemical industry which is primarily the petroleum industry. They use it as a catalyst for refining.

But more and more EV batteries are being built with no or less cobalt so that market is falling away a bit.

IMG_7822.jpeg
 
Not directly, that I am aware of. But, with such mandates in place such as "80% of all (new) vehicles sold in XX state/city will be EV by 2035", they are, by default, forcing many people to buy an EV if they want any kind of vehicle at all. The next step will be to make it illegal to cross a state/county line to purchase an ICV if you live in said geographical area in your city/state of residence.
That would be a violation of the interstate commerce clause.
 

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