Fuel Issue with 1999 Fleetwood Flair

[behing19]

We have been dealing with a fuel issue for about a month now. Before I get into it, let me give you the details about what we own.

We have a 1999 Fleetwood Flair on a Chevy P-30 chassis. I believe it's a 7.4, but not 100% sure on that. We have owned it for less than a year and from the beginning, it didn't start so smoothly.

At first, I thought it just needed me to pump the gas to get fuel to it and get it started. Typically, I'd try 2-4 times and it would start, never or very rarely, on the first try. This was from the very beginning of buying it after we drove it off the lot.

Now, about a month ago, our current issue started. We were on our way from a campground in Ohio to one in New York, a total of about 430 miles. We drove about 75 miles and stopped at a rest stop for about an hour or so, then went on for about another 125 miles before overnighting at a truck stop.

The next day, we drove the final 200 miles and stopped to get groceries about 8 miles from our campground. When we came out of the grocery store, the RV wouldn't start. I would do everything except start. All the normal sounds of starting up except that one final noise when the engine turns over and you're good to go.

We thought we may be low on gas and that could be the cause, so we walked to an autozone (we don't own a car) and got a 5 gallon gas can. We put 4 gallons of gas in it and took it back to the RV. After putting gas in it, it still wouldn't start.

I had my wife try, as I banged on the gas tank with a rubber mallet. After a couple tries, it started and I hurried in to drive us the final 8 miles. We figured if we got to the campground, we would be able to start figuring out the issue.

At first, I thought it had to be the fuel pump, but I got some advice from another forum telling me to try changing the fuel filter first. This seemed reasonable and I was able to change it myself.

After changing the fuel filter, the RV started up just fine, in fact better than it had ever started before for us. About 4 days later we left New York to drive 160 miles to a campground in Massachusetts for an overnight on our way to Maine. We filled it with gas (50-gallon) tank and made it to the campground just fine.

We were given a crappy spot and were both tired, so we didn't level out the RV with leveling blocks like we normally would. When we woke up in the morning, it wouldn't start again. I figured it was the angle, as we were at a pretty bad angle towards the back driver's side of the RV and I figured we had maybe a half a tank of gas.

Again, I pounded on the fuel tank and after a few tries, we got it started. The entire time, I could hear the fuel pump working inside the tank.

We didn't want to chance it not starting at a gas station and I figured we had enough gas to go the 130 miles to our next campground, which would buy us 21 days to figure things out. However, I was wrong. We did stop twice and let it idle for about a total of maybe 20 to 30 minutes, so maybe that was why my calculations were off.

Anyway, we ended up running out of gas on the ramp for our final exit about 10 miles from our campground. The transit authority brought us about 2 gallons of gas an a triple-A guy (very nice guy as we are not triple-A members) stopped and put in another 2 gallons.

We ended up having to have it towed to the campground where we are currently (driveshaft disconnected, still).

I was given advice in another forum to try changing the fuel filter again as they can sometimes get clogged if you have sludge in the tank. I did that today, but it's still doing the same thing. I have put another 3 to 3.5 gallons of gas in the tank, so I know there is about 7 - 8 gallons in the tank, maybe a little more.

We plan to bike it to the gas station and get about 20 gallons of fuel to see if we are still just too low on gas to get it started. We are not at much of an angle, but it does favor the back passenger side a little bit. Since we were towed in, we weren't given the ability to level out at all, but it would probably only take one leveling block on the back passenger tires to get it level.

I have also checked all of the fuses under my steering wheel and they are all fine.

Is there something I am missing here or is it for sure my fuel pump?

We are trying to avoid having to replace the fuel pump, if possible, as we know that's an expensive repair and we live in our RV, so it also means trying to figure out where the two of us and our two dogs will stay while it's being fixed. Again, we don't have a car, so our options are limited.

Could it be that there isn't enough gas in the tank still? Could it be a relay or some type of sensor I can easily replace myself?

We have about 12 days to figure this out before this campground closes for the season and we will have to be out one way or another.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Benjamin Ehinger

 

[cgmartin]

I would not put any more gas in the tank. In the event that you need to take it down, you want it as light as possible. If you are sure the pump is in the tank, I think you have already determined that the culprit is the pump. Is there any chance of your motorhome having a trap door where you can access the top of the tank from the interior of the motorhome?. If you can find the fuel line that comes out of the gas tank, I would test the the pump by taking a piece of fuel hose and inserting it in a gas can  to see if it has suction.

 

[malexander]

Sounds like a fuel pump problem to me. The pump motor may be running, but the pump part isn't pumping. I know it's all one unit, but still.......

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Adding a secondary in-line fuel pump might help, but the real solution is probably a replacement pump.

First, though, try replacing the filter again. If you have crap in the tank, that new filter could crud up quickly. However, sometimes a new filter works well for several days simply because it has lower resistance to fuel flow, letting the weak pump get by for awhile. Then as it gets dirtier, the fuel flow slows again.

 

[Alfa38User]

The fact that you "pounded" on the tank several times suggests that you may have stirred up any 'crap' in the tank. I believe there is a small filter or screen on the pumps intake and, by this time it may be badly clogged. It would have the same effect as a weak pump. Either way, you have to remove the pump to clear it or change it if that is the case. If you are very lucky, you may find an access port to the pump fittings under an access panel in the floor, but if not, you will have to drop the tank, not a fun job if there is much gas left in it. In any event, another (or several more) new filters may be required, especially if you did dislodge 'crap' in the tank. 

 

[behing19]

Thank you to all of you that have responded with your advice and thoughts on the matter. We have to make a decision as to what we are going to do shortly because we are going to be out of time come 11am a week from Sunday when the campground closes for the year.

I managed to put another 12 gallons of gas in the tank and estimate we have close to 20 gallons in there right now, but it still won't start. We are sitting at enough of an angle to the back passenger side that it may still not be enough gas to get to the pump, but I doubt it.

My father mentioned trying to put gas in the carburetor, which I have done before with a car, but I don't even know if that's safe with an RV.

At this point, I will try just about anything to get us running and down the road. If we can get to our next campground (330) miles away, we can buy 28 more days before we have to start paying for camping. Plus, they are open year-round, so we wouldn't have to be in a hurry to leave, if we can't get things figured out.

I wish we had enough cash just to have it towed to a shop and have it worked on, but we are only going to have about $1,000 come middle of this week, maybe a little more. I have seen prices for getting a fuel pump fixed all the way up to about $2,000, so it has me very worried. We can get it towed to as how for free through Good Sam, so that's helpful.

Anyway, if anybody has any tricks or things I can try this week that might work, I am open to any ideas. I really don't want to have to send it to a shop, as we have no where to stay and two dogs we have to figure out what to do with, too. If we have to get a hotel, that will eat into the cash we have and we have no car, so it will have to be within walking distance of where we are or the shop. Usually, we could just get a cabin at the campground, but they are winterizing them and there's no guarantee one will be available later this week and I was told it's very unlikely.

I guess I am hoping for a miracle here, but if anybody has any ideas, please chime in.

Thank you,

Benjamin Ehinger

 

[Charlie 5320]

One thing for sure is you don't have a carb. Your engine is a 454 with mutiport fuel injection and requires at least 40 lbs of fuel pressure maybe more. More than likely the tank will have to be removed to install a new pump. The pump module will be as tall as the tank. I'd ask around where you are and find a small garage or maybe a mechanic that may be willing to work on it where it sits.

 

[RedandSilver]

I'm no expert - BUT if you are willing to try anything.....

Just for kicks I would try to jack up the low side to get it more level.  I assume you have a jack.
If yours won't work in this case - then maybe someone else at the campground has one you can borrow.

If part of the filter on the pump is clogged and that is sitting in most of the fuel then by leveling it out MAYBE just MAYBE
a part of the filter that is not clogged up might be able to send fuel down the line.  It might be a longshot but if it worked it might get you down the road.

I didn't see in your last post that you changed the fuel filter again.  If you didn't then by all means do that and Jack it up - what have you got to lose?

Good luck and report back when something changes etc.

 

[behing19]

I have changed the fuel filter twice total. I don't have a jack, but will try to see if someone will let me borrow it. Someone gave me the advice to try putting a little bit of automatic transmission fluid in the gas tank to clear the screen on the pump. However, I am a bit iffy about trying this as I cannot take chances of something worse happening.

Anybody have an opinion on putting ATF in the gas tank or have an alternative solution?

 

[Charlie 5320]

Never heard of that before, and don't think it'll work. If you remove the fuel filter, do you have fuel there? You might try removing the filter and have some one cycle the key to see if the pump is actually pumping. You're probably going to have to replace the pump, would be my guess. 

Sometimes you can buy just the pump and strainer, and other times you have to buy the module assembly. Just the pump and strainer usually runs $ 125.00 or so, but the module will go for $250.00 and up. Haven't bought one for several years, but have just changed the pump and strainer before. 

 

[Rene T]

Can you disconnect the fuel line at the carb and turn the key on to see if it's pumping?
Can you locate, inside the RV, the exact spot above the pump in the tank. It may be in a inconspicuous spot so you could cut a large hole to work on it instead of dropping the tank.

 

[behing19]

Thank you for the responses. Replacing the pump isn't something I can do myself and would have to have a mobile mechanic come out or have it towed to a shop.

Cutting a hole in the floor to get to the tank would work, but we have a custom bed set up above where the tank would be and it would basically mean tearing our entire bedroom apart, which isn't an option.

At this point, I have a relay switch on the way (should arrive by Tuesday). If that doesn't work I am going to have to have a mechanic come out and change the fuel pump. Just hoping someone can do it at the campground so we don't have to figure out where we and the dogs will go during the repair. Towing it to a shop seems like it would make life really difficult on us for the day or however long it would take to get this fixed.

Thank you,

Benjamin Ehinger

 

[Charlie 5320]

The ac relay should be the same as the fuel pump relay. You may try to change them and see if that is the problem. Should be 3 of those relays mounted next to each other on the engine side of the bulk head. I don't have my books anymore so I can't tell you which one is which.