Fuel Mileage - Diesel vs Gas

[sightseers]

For how many millions of dollars to purchase? And how many thousands of dollars per hour operating costs? And how many years of training to fly it (plus the copilot)? And how much does insurance cost?

Ahhh... I see Bill has put in some good numbers. So I'll add that the G650 cost $65,000,000 in 2013. And I see there is a 2015 model available at a used price of $52,500,000, with 1775 TT on it (TT=Total Time).

A web site lists:
The total annual budget for flying a Gulfstream 650 private jet 200 hours per year is approximately $1,576,211
and
...which would equate to an average cost per mile of approximately $16.56 at 200 hours per year.

And here's a chart of operating costs:

Cost flying                                                                        200 hours/year           flying 400 hours/year
Direct Operating Costs (DOC)
Fuel Cost @ $4.40/gal Updated to Nat'l Avg Each Week $442,640                           $885,280
Maintenance                                                                 $105,846                           $211,692
Engine Overhaul                                                         $191,670                           $383,339
Misc Crew/Landing/Handling                                         $80,000                           $160,000
Miscellaneous Variable                                                 $30,000                           $60,000
Total Direct Operating Costs (DOC)                                 $850,156                           $1,700,312
Fixed Costs
Crew                                                                         $343,964                           $343,964
Crew Training                                                                 $112,270                           $112,270
Hangar                                                                         $106,236                           $106,236
Insurance                                                                         $56,987                           $56,987
Jet Management                                                         $78,000                           $78,000
Miscellaneous Fixed                                                         $28,598                           $28,598
Total Fixed Costs                                                         $726,056                           $726,056
Total Annual Budget                                                       $1,576,211                 $2,426,367

Slightly beyond my budget...

You guys sure missed my point.  I don't want a bus that flys

I just want the builders at Cessna.... to go over to Tiffin and show them how to build a luxury lightweight motorhome.

 

[Gizmo100]

For how many millions of dollars to purchase? And how many thousands of dollars per hour operating costs? And how many years of training to fly it (plus the copilot)? And how much does insurance cost?

Ahhh... I see Bill has put in some good numbers. So I'll add that the G650 cost $65,000,000 in 2013. And I see there is a 2015 model available at a used price of $52,500,000, with 1775 TT on it (TT=Total Time).

A web site lists:
The total annual budget for flying a Gulfstream 650 private jet 200 hours per year is approximately $1,576,211
and
...which would equate to an average cost per mile of approximately $16.56 at 200 hours per year.

And here's a chart of operating costs:

Cost flying                                                                        200 hours/year           flying 400 hours/year
Direct Operating Costs (DOC)
Fuel Cost @ $4.40/gal Updated to Nat'l Avg Each Week $442,640                           $885,280
Maintenance                                                                 $105,846                           $211,692
Engine Overhaul                                                         $191,670                           $383,339
Misc Crew/Landing/Handling                                         $80,000                           $160,000
Miscellaneous Variable                                                 $30,000                           $60,000
Total Direct Operating Costs (DOC)                                 $850,156                           $1,700,312
Fixed Costs
Crew                                                                         $343,964                           $343,964
Crew Training                                                                 $112,270                           $112,270
Hangar                                                                         $106,236                           $106,236
Insurance                                                                         $56,987                           $56,987
Jet Management                                                         $78,000                           $78,000
Miscellaneous Fixed                                                         $28,598                           $28,598
Total Fixed Costs                                                         $726,056                           $726,056
Total Annual Budget                                                       $1,576,211                 $2,426,367

Slightly beyond my budget...

And that doesn't include cable TV or internet ;D

 

[thesameguy]

Remember the 60's Cadillac Fleetwood, it was 25 feet long, it weighed 3 tons, massive beautifully decorated chromed steel bumpers,  with monster 472 cubic engine that got 7 mpg. (at best). 

Ha... I have one of those. A '67 Fleetwood 75. 20' long with a 429cid V8. They got a bit longer in '74 - 21'. Good cars. Mine gets an easy 15mpg on the highway, FWIW. I dont know how the 7.7l and 8.1l motors compare though. They are better designed and make more power, but probably do suffer in the empeegees.

 

[WILDEBILL308]

You guys sure missed my point.  I don't want a bus that flys

I just want the builders at Cessna.... to go over to Tiffin and show them how to build a luxury lightweight motorhome.

No, you are  missing the point. I DON'T CARE. I will drive my coach and have fun. How far did you drive your motorhome this year? You still haven't replied about what you have.
Bill

 

[1carguy]

I've had both gas and diesel tow vehicles (not a MH). The higher cost of diesel fuel isn't offset by better fuel consumption. Add that to the premium you pay for a diesel vehicle and it hardly seems worth it. For me, the true value and benefit of my diesel over gas is the performance of the diesel. My Duramax hardly breaks a sweat under most conditions and I remember times I was totally stressed out by strain I was putting on my old gas rig to just make it over a mountain at 40 mph. For towing, you can't beat a diesel. Might be a different story when it comes to motorhomes.

 

[sightseers]

No, you are  missing the point. I DON'T CARE. I will drive my coach and have fun. How far did you drive your motorhome this year? You still haven't replied about what you have.

Bill,....yes, You caught me....I have a gas coach.....So now you, as a diesel pusher owner can berate me for not being in the big boys club. 

Ha... I have one of those. A '67 Fleetwood 75. 20' long with a 429cid V8. They got a bit longer in '74 - 21'. Good cars. Mine gets an easy 15mpg on the highway, FWIW. I dont know how the 7.7l and 8.1l motors compare though. They are better designed and make more power, but probably do suffer in the empeegees.

So how does that 67 compare to a new Cadillac CTS with a 2.0 L turbo as far as fuel millage ? 

 

[Back2PA]

So how does that 67 compare to a new Cadillac CTS with a 2.0 L turbo as far as fuel millage ? 

Probably doesn't compare well. But then, you can't host a dinner party for 6 in the backseat of a CTS 

 

[sightseers]

I've had both gas and diesel tow vehicles (not a MH). The higher cost of diesel fuel isn't offset by better fuel consumption. Add that to the premium you pay for a diesel vehicle and it hardly seems worth it. For me, the true value and benefit of my diesel over gas is the performance of the diesel. My Duramax hardly breaks a sweat under most conditions and I remember times I was totally stressed out by strain I was putting on my old gas rig to just make it over a mountain at 40 mph. For towing, you can't beat a diesel. Might be a different story when it comes to motorhomes.

Well,  My last diesel truck was an FL80 Freightliner......I used to be down to 35 mph going over the Grapevine.  (up and down)

It all comes down to the weight you are trying to move over that hill... )

 

[Larry N.]

You guys sure missed my point.  I don't want a bus that flys

I just want the builders at Cessna.... to go over to Tiffin and show them how to build a luxury lightweight motorhome.

Actually, you missed my point, that being the expense of making and operating that lightweight luxury machine. Of course the aircraft doesn't have to put up with rough roads and such, either. With that heavy wing loading turbulence doesn't have the same effect that you get on bumpy roads.

 

[sightseers]

    Have you ever been through bad air turbulence or a hard landing when stuff is flying all around inside ? ..... ;D

Would it really cost that much more to substitute the solid cherry wood ..... for cherry wood veneer covered rigid foam board ?

 

[sightseers]

Probably doesn't compare well. But then, you can't host a dinner party for 6 in the backseat of a CTS 

Actually yes...in this CTS...


a 2011 Lincoln Towncar "L" (limo) gets about 20 mpg city, and 24 highway....

they are designing/building modern luxury cars lighter and getting better fuel millage....motorhomes need to evolve too.

Marble showers and floors....really ?  :  it's as funny as those guys building Tiny house trailers (20k gvw) with actual T/G knotty pine walls and a wood shingle roof.

 

[sightseers]

A new Prevost has 600 horses and weights almost 60 thousand pounds.......

Is that the future of class A rigs ?

 

[Old_Crow]

The only place a forced induction system would help a gas engine is at wide open throttle.  Otherwise it's just a power drain lowering the engine's efficiency.

Have you ever driven a big gas coach?  I travel mostly in the west and I spend a whole bunch of time with my foot flat on the floor, listening to that V10 scream. 
Forced induction and a set of headers would benefit me a bunch, but the wallet isn't thick enough to do more than dream about them.

 

[sightseers]

yes...I have a big gas coach,    and I've had a turbo Cummins powered FL80 Freightliner 54k truck.... that also went up those passes at full throttle in 5th gear @ 35mph.

I used to just pull out the dash mounted throttle control knob on Banning pass,  turn up the radio take my foot off the gas
  and hope the scales are closed  .......

Slow down,  Life's a journey...not a race. 

 

[Old_Crow]

I'm not fool enough to believe that I wouldn't still have my foot on the floor, but I'd at least be moving faster than 35 

The hardest thing to get used to in my move from a Chevy chassis to the Ford was the engine noise.  Took a while to get used to the sound of 10 tiny pistons compared to the 8 coffee cans in the 454.  Now I just hit the remote on my hearing aids and mute them.

 

[WILDEBILL308]

A new Prevost has 600 horses and weights almost 60 thousand pounds.......

Is that the future of class A rigs ?

Why is this a problem for you? The Prevost is probably more efficient at moving the 60,000 lbs than your gas coach. I will bet the Prevost gets about 7+mpg. What do you weigh and what mileage do you get.
The outher benefit is I have to watch the tack to see what RPM I am running because it is so quiet.
Bill

 

[sightseers]

Why is this a problem for you? The Prevost is probably more efficient at moving the 60,000 lbs than your gas coach. I will bet the Prevost gets about 7+mpg. What do you weigh and what mileage do you get.
The outher benefit is I have to watch the tack to see what RPM I am running because it is so quiet.
Bill

lets look at the total cost per mile....    the Prevost,  1.4 mil. for the coach, + 200 gal fuel @ $4.00 divided by 60k lbs...  :

me...  $15k +/- on a good day,  + 75 gal @ 3.40 divided by 22k lbs even with my barley audible radio going 35 mph the highway ....

you win Bill. 

 

[thesameguy]

So how does that 67 compare to a new Cadillac CTS with a 2.0 L turbo as far as fuel millage ? 

My only experiences with that motor are in a Solstice GXP (owned) and a Buick Regal (rented), but I can compare against a 6.2l CTS-V which netted 24mpg on its BEST day.

The Fleetwood is a case where the juice is worth the squeeze - nothing but thumbs up and compliments from everyone who sees it, and although a 50 year old six passenger limo isn't the world's most practical transportation, it is pretty cool being able to take that many people with you and NOT be driving an SUV.

To your point, though, there is definitely a balance between cost of operation and frustration of operation and that will vary from person to person, as will approaches to get to that individual sweet spot. It's fair that there isn't a one size fits all.

 

[Joezeppy]

My only experiences with that motor are in a Solstice GXP (owned) and a Buick Regal (rented), but I can compare against a 6.2l CTS-V which netted 24mpg on its BEST day.

LOL, my first car was a a '78 Buick Regal with a 3.8L V6 turbo. It was the first year for the turbo engine. They marketed it as having "V8 power with V6 fuel economy". If failed on both accounts but I loved that car. I owned it from 1986 to 1993 and still regret selling it. It evolved into the Buick Grand National which had a quicker 0-60 time than the Corvette in 1984. It ended its run in 1987 with the Grand National GNX (a tribute to the early 70's GSX). It was quite a beast in its day. It's on my Lotto wish list.  8)

 

[thesameguy]

It evolved into the Buick Grand National which had a quicker 0-60 time than the Corvette in 1984.

Forced induction is ALWAYS the right answer. It took us 20 or so years to get it right, but these days it's really good. A+

But. uh, the recent Buick Regal GXP was a pretty fine ride. Obviously wrong wheel drive, but as a highway cruiser plenty of fun. That 2.0l Ecotec turbo is a fine, fine motor.