Getting Started: Buying A used 5th Wheel for our needs

[Freeborn]

Hi group,

Like all folks you need to start somewhere so here goes.  My wife and I are looking for a 5th wheel and trying to do the best we can to get a quality used unit.  To help narrow our search here is our situation:

- We're not retired, about 6 years away.  It will be just the two of us and a dog. Both in good health.
- Unit will be used at our Hobby Farm (Think Apple Orchard and Prairie Grass) and tripped 2-3 times a year
- We live in Minnesota, we go to the farm mostly May through October.  Cold in Winter so we stay away.
- Plan is to travel much more in retirement but learn with the new unit plus enjoy it at the farm.
- Buying used so we learn what we like and because of the amount of usage.
- Unit will sit outside in the Elements for a few years until a Pole Shed is built.
- I have water and power at the farm.  Also an Outhouse but no septic system.

Other things:

- Can you get a better deal buying now, off season, with winter coming? Two months before snow.
- Most of the units I have seen on the net are above NADA, can I get low NADA this time of year or better?
- Based on my short reading I like the sounds of the Artic Fox for my application but we're wide open.
- Unit will be 30' or less
- Does anybody know of an independent inspector in Minnesota I could contact?

I guess that's about it. By far the unit will be used as a weekend get away at our hobby farm.  We want to be able to stay cool, dry and warm when we want.  We also want to be able to shower when needed.  We also want a unit that functions and operates without problems.

I know this is probably similar to everybody's list but I needed to start somewhere.

Any recommendations on brand, things to stay away from, how to weed your way through salesman?

Thanks much!

FB

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

For RV inspectors, check the NRVIA for members near you.
https://nrvia.org/

NADA prices are not very accurate for RVs - there is insufficient actual sales data available to yield reliable numbers.  Prices vary a lot by condition, region, season, and local demand, plus dealerships often react to their own financial pressures (or lack thereof) when negotiating an actual sales price.  Use NADA as one data point, but don't assume a price is high or low simply based on that.  Look around at as many dealers as possible, plus websites like RVtrader.com  and PPLMotorhomes.com to get a feel for asking prices.  Remember that actual sales prices are typically much lower.  Since you mentioned NADA, I assume you are shopping for a used 5W (usually a smart choice).

Also consider a private purchase and check local ads, craigslist, Ebay, etc.  There is often little advantage in buying from a dealer, though there are some good ones here and there.  I'm not familiar with the dealers in Minnesota, so can't recommend any.

 

[darsben]

  HELLO

What is your tow vehicle and its PAYLOAD rating. The PAYLOAD is usually the most restrictive factor in towing a rig. A fifth wheel will put a lot of weight on the truck and that counts against payload.

NADA is not very reliable in the RV world.  Not a lot of used units sold makes for notoriously inaccurate NADA values.
NO septic means no toilet use (so the outhouse would be the ticket)or buy a couple of portable units (see image below) and take them to be dumped.

 

[Freeborn]

For RV inspectors, check the NRVIA for members near you.
https://nrvia.org/

NADA prices are not very accurate for RVs - there is insufficient actual sales data available to yield reliable numbers.  Prices vary a lot by condition, region, season, and local demand, plus dealerships often react to their own financial pressures (or lack thereof) when negotiating an actual sales price.  Use NADA as one data point, but don't assume a price is high or low simply based on that.  Look around at as many dealers as possible, plus websites like RVtrader.com  and PPLMotorhomes.com to get a feel for asking prices.  Remember that actual sales prices are typically much lower.  Since you mentioned NADA, I assume you are shopping for a used 5W (usually a smart choice).

Also consider a private purchase and check local ads, craigslist, Ebay, etc.  There is often little advantage in buying from a dealer, though there are some good ones here and there.  I'm not familiar with the dealers in Minnesota, so can't recommend any.

Thanks for advice.

Yep I'm looking used for this first unit.  Once we retire we may go new.

It's interesting your comment on dealers.  I suppose dealers spend zero time evaluating and repairing used units?  If that is the case then there would no value.

I have looked on RV trader but will look at the other site you provided.  Also thanks for the tip on the Inspector.

Pricing, if I see a discount based on time of year I'll report on it.

Thanks again.

FB

 

[Freeborn]

  HELLO

What is your tow vehicle and its PAYLOAD rating. The PAYLOAD is usually the most restrictive factor in towing a rig. A fifth wheel will put a lot of weight on the truck and that counts against payload.

NADA is not very reliable in the RV world.  Not a lot of used units sold makes for notoriously inaccurate NADA values.
NO septic means no toilet use (so the outhouse would be the ticket)or buy a couple of portable units (see image below) and take them to be dumped.

Thanks for the tip on the portable unit, they would be handy and I have a campground with a dump site close to my place.

Tow vehicle is a 2017 F350 diesel so I'm covered for the unit I am looking for.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Few dealers do anything other than a cursory inspection and the general rule is to wait to see what the buyer notices and fix that. And only that.  In most cases the sales guy will assure you that "we go through everything", but in practice it's little more than a quick look around. In some stores, it's the sales guy who walks through and reports what needs to be fixed.  The sales department has to pay a tech investigate and to do repairs, so even a few hours of work cuts sharply into the profit margin.  Once they have you signature to accept delivery, you have lost all leverage, so insist on seeing all promised repairs finished.  And demonstrated if not obvious.

Back in the day when RVs sold at 12-15% off MSRP, they could afford to do more service, but todays deep discounts leave almost no room for that.

 

[grashley]

You sound like you have thought through much of this.  You are clearly on the right track!

Buying used is a great idea.  Web sites include    PPL.com (100% used consignments),  RVTrader,com,  RVT.com,    E Bay,    Local RV dealers  We bought our FW used last November.  Sold new in 2009 for $73K, bought used for $26K.  Great condition.

Your truck will be fine for the FW you are looking at, but it DOES have its' limits, around 15K  GVWR for the FW.

For tank drainage, if you are on YOUR land, I would just dump the gray tank on the ground, a bit away from and downhill from the camper.  If you can, dump the black tank into the outhouse.

The MOST IMPORTANT factor in ANY RV purchase is Floor Plan!  Do NOT compromise on Floor Plan!
The best time to buy is when you find the perfect camper at a price you are happy with.

Happy Hunting!

 

[MN Blue Skies]

Hello from a fellow Minnesotan.  If you plan to do extended trips you might find that a 5th wheel under 30' will be tight quarters even though there are only two of you.  As grashley said the floor plan is very important.  We have a 35' rear living room 5th wheel and love the floor plan.  I disagree with grashley on dumping the gray water on the ground.  I'd hate to see you run into trouble with the local government.  As far MN dealers go I wish we could be more optimistic.

 

[Freeborn]

You sound like you have thought through much of this.  You are clearly on the right track!

Buying used is a great idea.  Web sites include    PPL.com (100% used consignments),  RVTrader,com,  RVT.com,    E Bay,    Local RV dealers  We bought our FW used last November.  Sold new in 2009 for $73K, bought used for $26K.  Great condition.

Your truck will be fine for the FW you are looking at, but it DOES have its' limits, around 15K  GVWR for the FW.

For tank drainage, if you are on YOUR land, I would just dump the gray tank on the ground, a bit away from and downhill from the camper.  If you can, dump the black tank into the outhouse.

The MOST IMPORTANT factor in ANY RV purchase is Floor Plan!  Do NOT compromise on Floor Plan!
The best time to buy is when you find the perfect camper at a price you are happy with.

Happy Hunting!

.

Thanks Grashley for the good advise.

How does a person go about determining what floor plan works best for them?  This unit will spend 95+%  of its/or time sitting on our farm.  I plan on building a deck in front of it where we can relax.

Thanks much!

 

[Freeborn]

Hello from a fellow Minnesotan.  If you plan to do extended trips you might find that a 5th wheel under 30' will be tight quarters even though there are only two of you.  As grashley said the floor plan is very important.  We have a 35' rear living room 5th wheel and love the floor plan.  I disagree with grashley on dumping the gray water on the ground.  I'd hate to see you run into trouble with the local government.  As far MN dealers go I wish we could be more optimistic.

Thanks MN Blue Sky.

Until we retire our trips will be one week, no longer.  After we retire we may upgrade depending on our experiences.

We need to get out and do some shopping, (sitting in units) to get an idea of what we do and don't like.

Thanks much!

 

[Back2PA]

How does a person go about determining what floor plan works best for them?

You literally have to sit in it. Sit on the couch and look around. Does it feel homey?  Do you have to twist your head to watch TV? Are there end tables and lights where you want them? What does it feel like when you first step through the door? Is there enough counter space in the kitchen? Do the cabinets make sense? Is the pantry big enough? Etc etc. Make a list of things you have to have, things you'd like to have, and things you don't want. Keep the list updated as you view new rigs.


Think of it like buying a house. After you take your time looking at a few, pretty quickly you'll figure out the type of layouts you prefer. Take lots of notes!

 

[Freeborn]

You literally have to sit in it. Sit on the couch and look around. Does it feel homey?  Do you have to twist your head to watch TV? Are there end tables and lights where you want them? What does it feel like when you first step through the door? Is there enough counter space in the kitchen? Do the cabinets make sense? Is the pantry big enough? Etc etc. Make a list of things you have to have, things you'd like to have, and things you don't want. Keep the list updated as you view new rigs.


Think of it like buying a house. After you take your time looking at a few, pretty quickly you'll figure out the type of layouts you prefer. Take lots of notes!

Thanks Sun2Retire,

Good advice.  One thing that will be important is that I can fit.  I'm tall, 6'8" and I know I will have to bring in a chair specific for me but I think that will work.

We are looking at units this weekend, will take lots of notes.

Thanks!

FB

 

[clockdrfla]

Size, storage and would consider an extended warranty plan if buying used.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

One of the most critical things in a floor plan (but often ignored) is the bathroom, i.e. shower, commode and sink.  Stool height and room, elbow and headroom in the shower, a place for towels & toothbrushes, sink size & height, etc.  All small things but very irritating if inadequate. A tall person will have special concerns in the bath area.

Another overlooked area is galley counter space and storage (drawers and cabinets). Where will the coffee pot, toaster, etc. sit, places for pots & pans & silverware, canned/boxed foods, etc.  You have to think about all those things in advance, because there are very limited options for changing them once you buy.

You mentioned bringing in a chair, but that presumes there is some open space to put it.  Most RV furniture is built in, so its not like furnishing an empty room to your tastes.  You may have to remove a built in sofa or side table to make room for that chair.  Probably not difficult in most cases (most items are just screwed or bolted in), but something that needs to be investigated before you buy.

 

[Alfa38User]

You mentioned 6'8". You will have problems in the front room (over the hitch) in most cases. I am only 5' 8" and that area is a little tight even for me. The shower may also be a concern with that height but if a skylight is equipped it will less of a problem, in many cases. No problem in the main areas though as mine is at least 10 feet high.

 

[Freeborn]

One of the most critical things in a floor plan (but often ignored) is the bathroom, i.e. shower, commode and sink.  Stool height and room, elbow and headroom in the shower, a place for towels & toothbrushes, sink size & height, etc.  All small things but very irritating if inadequate. A tall person will have special concerns in the bath area.

Another overlooked area is galley counter space and storage (drawers and cabinets). Where will the coffee pot, toaster, etc. sit, places for pots & pans & silverware, canned/boxed foods, etc.  You have to think about all those things in advance, because there are very limited options for changing them once you buy.

You mentioned bringing in a chair, but that presumes there is some open space to put it.  Most RV furniture is built in, so its not like furnishing an empty room to your tastes.  You may have to remove a built in sofa or side table to make room for that chair.  Probably not difficult in most cases (most items are just screwed or bolted in), but something that needs to be investigated before you buy.

Agree on the bathroom, I'll have to fit on the pot or no deal.  I can't tell me how many showers I have been in where the shower head hit me directly in the chest.  I know I'll have to deal/minimize some of this but hopefully we can find a compromise.

I didn't realize the furniture was screwed/bolted to the floor.  We will have to see how that can be worked around.  Most of the chairs look pretty small online.  I can see this is going to be a learning experience.

Thanks again,

FB

 

[Freeborn]

You mentioned 6'8". You will have problems in the front room (over the hitch) in most cases. I am only 5' 8" and that area is a little tight even for me. The shower may also be a concern with that height but if a skylight is equipped it will less of a problem, in many cases. No problem in the main areas though as mine is at least 10 feet high.

Yep, I figured the front area would be a challenge.  I know I won't be standing up in that area but as long as I can sit-up in bed I'll be OK.  I'll end up changing in the main area as it just is easier.

Funny story, years ago I was staying in abed and breakfast in Germany.  I was literally showering with my head sticking out of the roof of the house (skylight).  In the back yard there was a donkey, geese, chickens and goats.  With my height you have to do what you have to do.

Thanks much!

FB

 

[darsben]

With your height maybe a travel trailer would do better for you. Usually the same headroom throughout the unit. So no unexpected head bumping

 

[Freeborn]

With your height maybe a travel trailer would do better for you. Usually the same headroom throughout the unit. So no unexpected head bumping

That could be an alternative and we will look at it.  I do want a unit that is maneuverable and that I can tow a second trailer.  My wife and I are active people, we like to bike, kayak, ATV, hike etc. so we would like the option to pull a second trailer so we can hall more stuff.

 

[grashley]

Excellent advise on finding the right floor plan, then the right camper. 

The right floor plan includes features like a one room bath or one with the toilet in a separate room.  Is the kitchen a few cabinets on one wall, or is the island or peninsula style more to your liking?  Do you need to see the TV from the kitchen?  Walk around bed?

Once you answer these questions, move on to the right camper with these features.

There is no substitute for sitting in lots of campers. 
Remember, some things can be changed, others can not.  A low toilet can easily be replaced with a tall model, but if there is not enough room around the toilet to be comfortable, a taller toilet will still be a tight fit!  Adding counter space is really tough!

Get in the shower and take a fully clothed dry shower.  Can you wash your hair without bruising your elbows?
Is the seating location compatible with watching TV, reading or doing crafts?