GM will stop building vehicles with tailpipes in 13 years and 11 months.

[Lowell]

Do you eat lunch or stop for pee or coffee breaks?  The longest I have ever stopped at a Supercharger is 20 minutes, usually determined by how long it takes me to eat lunch.  Just a matter of combining tasks.  Nice thing about EV charging.  Hook up and walk away.

I didn't realize you could fully recharge in 20 minutes.  Good to know.

 

[Viajeros]

I didn't realize you could fully recharge in 20 minutes.  Good to know.

Well, quite honestly I have never charged from zero so I don't know how long that takes.  The lowest I think we have arrived at a Supercharger is 18 percent. 

But let me tell you how an average 800 km road trip goes.  I'll do this in kilometers because it is just more natural for me.  Otherwise I'll screw up the numbers. 

The EPA range of a Tesla Model 3 is 550 ish kilometers.  (maybe 350 ish miles?) 

We start the day at 100 percent from the driveway.  After two and a half or three hours we need a pee break for us and the chihuahua.  Maybe refill our coffee cup from the thermos and we are off.  That takes about 10 to 15 minutes max.  But, we take our breaks and lunches at Superchargers. (They are ubiquitous where we travel).  If you have been on the road for a few hours you are halfway through your battery...roughly.  Depends on speed, temperature etc.  As soon as you pull in you hook up.  Takes 3 seconds, billing is all automatic, no credit cards etc, the car sends it's serial number through the charger and you account is automatically billed.  10 or 12 minutes later you are back to 80 percent on the battery.  As soon as everyone is peed and walked we hit the road.  Same thing at lunch but probably a little longer as you are eating.  Once more in the afternoon for 10 or 12 minutes.  Check into the hotel where they have a destination charger, hook up, next morning you start again at 100 percent.  Rinse and repeat.  I don't think we have ever done more than 950 km in a day...and that is too long for us.  But you get the idea.  Don't stop to charge, charge while you are stopped. 

Anyway. hope that gives a glimpse into a normal travel day with an EV...or at least with a newer Tesla model 3).  The newer model S would be about the same although it has something like 650 km of range.  (not sure). 

Cheers. 

 

[DonTom]

I didn't realize you could fully recharge in 20 minutes.  Good to know.

Depends on the SuperCharger and what you call "fully". It's best to avoid charging below 20% or above 80% as much as possible for several reasons, but that range is also faster to charge. The ONLY time to charge to full is when you think you could need the range. I have yet to be in that situation since I have owned my Tesla. If I do fully charge, it will be at home, after midnight, the morning of  a trip of at least  couple of hundred miles. I plug in at any time, but my charging starts at midnight when I am home. BTW, Tesla uses the GPS for the charge times for different locations. Only set each location one time and the car will remember what time to charge at if they are different. Any new location will be instant charging, which you can also do, of course, from home by pressing a button on the screen to start instant charging even if set for a different time.


IOW, stopping at two different charge stations can be faster than only stopping at one, by avoiding the below 20% and above 80% charging.



But to charge to 100% is what I would  always set at a Supercharger, but I would probably never get there. Having it slow down near the end is an advantage sometimes, even when you don't want to charge to 100%. The price goes UP a few minutes after you're done charging if you don't disconnect, if the chargers there  are more than 50% being  used. Buy more time by setting the charge to 100% because sometimes the car will be nearly fully charged by the time you have lunch or whatever. You can keep an eye on your charging progress  with a Smartphone when away from the charge station, but you have more time when set to 100% if you don't want to rush back.


FWIW, I have only used a Supercharger two times in the more than two years I have owned my Tesla. One time in San Jose and the other time in Mt. View CA. All my other charging has been at home (any of my three houses).


-Don-  Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

The EPA range of a Tesla Model 3 is 550 ish kilometers.  (maybe 350 ish miles?) 

At 65 MPH. Mine was 320 miles when I bought it. I hear a software update since then was able to increase the range a bit, but I don't remember by how much.


Faster than 65 MPH will reduce range.



The peak range is at 38 MPH, then well over 400 miles on a full charge.


-Don-  Reno, NV

 

[jymbee]

There are very few, if any, things in this life that we are required to do or buy or have or whatever. If you don?t want an EV, don?t buy one. If you don?t want to read about EV?s, don?t read about them. EV?s are not a conspiracy propagated by far left wing zealots designed to stop folks from enjoying their gas guzzling, smoke belching behemoths. Every time somebody posts about EV?s there are those that have to trash the technology and now the trashing the OP.

Ah, yes. Your words being the voice of reason and facts. Unfortunately too often drowned out by... well-- you know.

 

[DonTom]

I didn't realize you could fully recharge in 20 minutes.  Good to know.

Not really from empty to full, but that would be rare anyway.

See here.

-20?30 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 80% full.- 60 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 95%.- 90 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 100%.

-Don-  Reno, NV

 

[Jayflight]

I laugh when I hear claims that electric vehicles will take over the industry by such and such date. Most folks speaking with  that forked tongue will probably not be around on certain dates that they throw out to be held accountable for spreading mythical dates. Not even Tesla can hold up to their professed peak performance. Battery vehicles  are as unreliable year round as solar charging to its maximum potential every day. These stories are in the same vein as people telling us that the coastal regions will be underwater by 2100.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07

DETROIT (AP) ? Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40% when interior heaters are used, a new study found.

The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as much as the cold. The range returns to normal in more comfortable temperatures.


Many owners discovered the range limitations last week when much of the country was in the grips of a polar vortex. Owners of vehicles made by manufacturers including Tesla US:TSLA  , the top-selling electric vehicle company in the U.S., complained on social media about reduced range and frozen door handles during the cold snap.






?As long as drivers understand that there are limitations when operating electric vehicles in more extreme climates, they are less likely to be caught off guard by an unexpected drop in driving range,? Greg Brannon, AAA?s director of automotive engineering, said in a statement.

 

[Viajeros]

I laugh when I hear claims that electric vehicles will take over the industry by such and such date. Most folks speaking with  that forked tongue will probably not be around on certain dates that they throw out to be held accountable for spreading mythical dates. Not even Tesla can hold up to their professed peak performance. Battery vehicles  are as unreliable year round as solar charging to its maximum potential every day. These stories are in the same vein as people telling us that the coastal regions will be underwater by 2100.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07

Old article. Technology moves fast. New Tesla?s are all equipped with both heat pumps and octovalves (which scavenge heat from the battery).  Cold weather losses are now much less.

EV technology is not like ICE technology. In 10 years car ranges have quadrupled. If you are looking at an article from a year ago you are waaaay out of date. By 2035 (GM?s tailpipe end date) the EV?s from today will be museum pieces.

 

[Jayflight]

Old article. Technology moves fast. New Tesla?s are all equipped with both heat pumps and octovalves (which scavenge heat from the battery).  Cold weather losses are now much less.

EV technology is not like ICE technology. In 10 years car ranges have quadrupled. If you are looking at an article from a year ago you are waaaay out of date. By 2035 (GM?s tailpipe end date) the EV?s from today will be museum pieces.

Sure, there are some advances.  But you readily admit there is  a loss of battery power still in cold weather.  But your Tesla still requires alternative energy sources and down time to recharge. Good luck with that if the energy sources are killed off. I will buy an electric vehicle for my full time vehicle when I see charging stations recharging AF1 in the air.  ;D In the mean time hybrid works really well and pretty darn dependable if I don't want to be stranded in the cold in particular.

These stories are purely political as these companies hold out their hands to the right politician in power.

 

[Jayflight]

This is a 2020 article created by Norway. Just  because the date is changed, the story line is the same.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/21/electric-cars-cold-weather-testing/

Electric vehicles are known to suffer diminished performance in cold weather, but some do a better job than others hanging onto their range capacity while cabin heaters and frigid outdoor temperatures sap power from their batteries. Recently, the Norwegian Automobile Federation put the 20 of the best-selling battery-electric vehicles in the country to the test, to see not only how winter weather affected their range but also their charging times.

The major findings: On average, electric vehicles lost 18.5% of their official driving range as determined by the European WLTP cycle. Electric vehicles also charge more slowly in cold temperatures. And interestingly, the researchers learned that EVs don?t simply shut down when they lose power but instead deliver a series of warnings to the driver, with driving comfort and speed levels maintained until the very last few miles.

Because it?s Norway, the world?s top market for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles by market share, the test included many EVs that aren?t available here in the U.S. But there are many familiar faces, among them the Nissan Leaf, Tesla Models S, 3 and X, Hyundai Kona (known here as the Kona Electric) and Ioniq, and Audi E-Tron.

 

[Viajeros]

Sure, there are some advances.  But you readily admit there is  a loss of battery power still in cold weather.  But your Tesla still requires alternative energy sources and down time to recharge. Good luck with that if the energy sources are killed off. I will buy an electric vehicle for my full time vehicle when I see charging stations recharging AF1 in the air.  ;D In the mean time hybrid works really well and pretty darn dependable if I don't want to be stranded in the cold in particular.

These stories are purely political as these companies hold out their hands to the right politician in power.

Buy what is right for you. But with your criteria it won?t be a gasser. According to fueleconomy.gov gas vehicles typically loose 15 to 24 percent of range in cold weather.

And the article lost all credibility with me when it mentioned that EV drivers were complaining of frozen door handles. Really???  I live in the north. Every vehicle I have ever owned is subject to that under freezing rain conditions. Too funny.

 

[Viajeros]

This is a 2020 article created by Norway. Just  because the date is changed, the story line is the same.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/21/electric-cars-cold-weather-testing/

Still out of date. The heat pump and octovalve came out in July of 2020. None of the vehicles they tested would have had it.

As well, Tesla?s usually don?t suffer from slower charging in winter. As long as the Supercharger location is in the GPS as the destination the car preconditions the battery so it?s ready for max charge when it arrives. I can personally attest to this on multiple occasions including driving the Coquihalla in coooold weather and arriving in Merritt. It?s an older V2 Supercharger and as soon as you are plugged it it pins at 150 KW. I haven?t arrived at a V3 Supercharger (250 Kw) in the cold but I suspect it would be the same.

 

[docj]

Faster than 65 MPH will reduce range.

How much of a range reduction would occur at 75 mph?  That's a pretty common cruising speed here in TX and much of the western US.

 

[Viajeros]

How much of a range reduction would occur at 75 mph?  That's a pretty common cruising speed here in TX and much of the western US.

We set our autopilot at either 110 kph or 120 kph depending on the highway. I?m sure there is a difference in the range but it?s not noticeable at a glance. I?ll take a guess at 5 or 10 percent...ish????  I would think since the physics are the same it would be the same as a gasser.

 

[Jayflight]

Still out of date. The heat pump and octovalve came out in July of 2020. None of the vehicles they tested would have had it.

As well, Tesla?s usually don?t suffer from slower charging in winter. As long as the Supercharger location is in the GPS as the destination the car preconditions the battery so it?s ready for max charge when it arrives. I can personally attest to this on multiple occasions including driving the Coquihalla in coooold weather and arriving in Merritt. It?s an older V2 Supercharger and as soon as you are plugged it it pins at 150 KW. I haven?t arrived at a V3 Supercharger (250 Kw) in the cold but I suspect it would be the same.

I take it you own a Mac too, which is better than everything else on the market. 8) ;D Like I said this current proclamation  is purely political. When GM came out with the Volt, the taxpayers was forced to support the buyers of the Volt to the tune of $ 7,500 IIRC  to get folks to buy them. That says it all for me, when there is not enough confidence that the vehicles can sell on their own merits.

And yes they still required either coal, or nuclear power to recharge their batteries.  So I ask again what do the lovers of EV plan on doing if we do away with the current resources that provides us energy to charge the vehicles or provide heat and air to our homes.

 

[Viajeros]

I take it you own a Mac too, which is better than everything else on the market. 8) ;D Like I said this current proclamation  is purely political. When GM came out with the Volt, the taxpayers was forced to support the buyers of the Volt to the tune of $ 7,500 IIRC  to get folks to buy them. That says it all for me, when there is not enough confidence that the vehicles can sell on their own merits.

And yes they still required either coal, or nuclear power to recharge their batteries.  So I ask again what do the lovers of EV plan on doing if we do away with the current resources that provides us energy to charge the vehicles or provide heat and air to our homes.

What am I going to do?  I?m going to keep plugging into the wall like I always have and let B.C. Hydro figure it out.  We heat our home with natural gas and nobody is trying to do away with it so I won?t worry about it. Works great, and it?s cold outside. .

Cheers.

 

[DonTom]

Not really from empty to full, but that would be rare anyway.

See here.

-20?30 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 80% full.- 60 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 95%.- 90 minutes to go from 20% battery remaining to 100%.

-Don-  Reno, NV

I just realized that was several years old. 350 KW Superchargers could be coming soon.

-Don-  Reno,NV

 

[Jayflight]

What am I going to do?  I?m going to keep plugging into the wall like I always have and let B.C. Hydro figure it out. We heat our home with natural gas and nobody is trying to do away with it so I won?t worry about it. Works great, and it?s cold outside. .

Cheers.

That's right, have not fear, natural gas is made from recycled beans. ;D

 

[docj]

After nearly 10 years of full-timing and >65,000 miles of motorhome driving over those years, my most memorable experiences have been away from the big cities.  When I read some of the comments about superchargers being almost ubiquitous, it made me question are they really all that available?

Attached is a current supercharger map for the State of Wyoming.  There are a total of 8 charging slots in West Yellowstone with another location in Jackson.  Given the extent of Yellowstone and Grand Teton parks there are lots of places that are many miles from a charger over hilly terrain that will shorten range.  Given the thousands of tourists who visit each year and the many, many miles you can drive in a single day of touring, that's not a lot of charging stations IMO.

By way of comparison, in 2019 we spent much of the summer on Prince Edward Island.  I've attached a map of superchargers on PEI--there are none.  The rural RV park we stayed at didn't even have 50A service.  So much for recharging at night!

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't see EVs as yet being practical in many rural areas. Yes, there appear to be plenty of charging stations in bigger cities, but if you live in a rural environment there aren't nearly as many. 

In the winter we live outside of Corpus Christi TX, a city of >300k people.  There are no superchargers in Corpus at the moment.  Yes, we could recharge every night at home, but we would have to carefully plan day trips to ensure that we could be near a charger somewhere during the day since there are few between us and Houston or San Antonio.

As for hybrids, yes, they have "unlimited range" due to their gasoline engines, but most can only go a modest distance on electric power.  When operating off their gasoline engines hybrids are basically no different from any other gasoline-powered cars with small engines.  The benefit of regenerative braking, which is important in stop and go driving, is insignificant in open road driving.

In summary, I don't disagree that with an increase in charging stations EV's could replace many, if not all, IC-powered private vehicles and many more commercial ones.  But IMHO I don't think we are there yet, at least not for meeting what I view as my personal requirements.  As they say, the devil is always in the details.

 

[Viajeros]

After nearly 10 years of full-timing and >65,000 miles of motorhome driving over those years, my most memorable experiences have been away from the big cities.  When I read some of the comments about superchargers being almost ubiquitous, it made me question are they really all that available?

Attached is a current supercharger map for the State of Wyoming.  There are a total of 8 charging slots in West Yellowstone with another location in Jackson.  Given the extent of Yellowstone and Grand Teton parks there are lots of places that are many miles from a charger over hilly terrain that will shorten range.  Given the thousands of tourists who visit each year and the many, many miles you can drive in a single day of touring, that's not a lot of charging stations IMO.

By way of comparison, in 2019 we spent much of the summer on Prince Edward Island.  I've attached a map of superchargers on PEI--there are none.  The rural RV park we stayed at didn't even have 50A service.  So much for recharging at night!

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't see EVs as yet being practical in many rural areas. Yes, there appear to be plenty of charging stations in bigger cities, but if you live in a rural environment there aren't nearly as many. 

In the winter we live outside of Corpus Christi TX, a city of >300k people.  There are no superchargers in Corpus at the moment.  Yes, we could recharge every night at home, but we would have to carefully plan day trips to ensure that we could be near a charger somewhere during the day since there are few between us and Houston or San Antonio.

As for hybrids, yes, they have "unlimited range" due to their gasoline engines, but most can only go a modest distance on electric power.  When operating off their gasoline engines hybrids are basically no different from any other gasoline-powered cars with small engines.  The benefit of regenerative braking, which is important in stop and go driving, is insignificant in open road driving.

In summary, I don't disagree that with an increase in charging stations EV's could replace many, if not all, IC-powered private vehicles and many more commercial ones.  But IMHO I don't think we are there yet, at least not for meeting what I view as my personal requirements.  As they say, the devil is always in the details.

Well, if you have no or poor EV infrastructure where you live or travel then don?t buy an EV. Superchargers and DC fast chargers are ubiquitous where we travel (West coast Canada and US)  so it?s a no brainer.