Grey water dumping without septic/sewer

[JudyJB]

Your clay soil would make a terrific hazardous waste dump because if there is as much clay as you describe, nothing will drain through it.  In fact, they line those big dumps, aka sanitary landfills, you see with clay to protect the nearby land from being polluted with toxic chemicals! 

If you really want this to drain, you need to look for some sand or gravel on your property, or dig a really, really big hole and fill it with a lot of gravel and sand. 

You might be able to install a holding tank and then have someone come once a month to pump it out. 

 

[Rene T]

To the OP, how far down is the clay and how thick is it?

 

[Newguystu]

I?m not completely sure. In our area there is a lot of clay, but there is some sand and rock mixed in. While we don?t have the nice organic black soil, we do still have some drainage. I need to perform a personal perc test to see exactly how it drains. But I will say while it?s soggy when it rains, it does manage to perc well over the course of a few hours. And my property sits atop a hill per say, so we haven?t had an issue with drainage so far.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Well, in my time today I have discovered that there are indeed good cast iron submersible pumps that will pump sewage or effluent up to 10 feet up in the air without issue, and are automatic working off a float system.  If I was able to wire in a self activated pump to a smaller tank, say 50 gallons or so, and the pump would kick on once the level reached a certain point, then the system would be self maintaining in that respect.

It's called a sewer lift station and you can buy complete kits or put together the components on your own. Basically just a macerator-type submersible pump and a tank of suitable size.  I've installed one from scratch and worked on several more used in various campgrounds where I've been employed. [One of the things I learned is that I should NOT tell the boss that I know about lift stations, but that is story for around the campfire!]
You will find lots of info online if you Google 'sewer lift station', including design info and parts sources.

 

[jymbee]

The regulations are well-meaning, but often overly restrictive due to the emotion surrounding environmental concerns.  There are places where tossing the remains of a drink from your glass onto the lawn can get you fined!

Or a farmer who has been driving a tractor over a stream for decades now being told he needs to install a bridge to prevent sediment from being stirred up. Gimme' a break...  :

The rules & restrictions here are especially strict-- unnecessarily so IMO-- given we live in a NYC watershed area. The irony is that given all the hoops one has to jump through to be "legal" many just say to hell with it and install all kinds of makeshift septic/cesspool systems without any kind of approval. One of our properties does have an old fashioned cesspool-- built with field stone walls & creosote boards (!) that was installed about 50 years ago and is still functioning. As that's a negative factor were one ever to want to sell we have looked into what it would cost to install an approved system. Due to the proximity of various water sources the estimates came in well into five figures.

 

[Bobtop46]

The plan for a mini lift station is a good one, and one that I have done recently.  Keep in mind your area of the country and frost depths.  The recommendation to rent a 4" trencher  is an excellent one.  We trenched the gravity part and uphill sections in under four hours with a half day rental (with zero experience using one). 

Here is the pump that we used.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRKI9B9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is the tank we used:

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/sewage-basins-septic-tanks/sewage-sump-basins/plumbstar-usa-trade-24-x-36-sewage-poly-basin/psu1013/p-1444436215044-c-8672.htm?tid=7862987039659011773&ipos=8

Here is the tubing we used to the septic tank.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Advanced-Drainage-Systems-2-in-x-100-ft-IPS-100-PSI-UTY-Poly-Pipe-2100100/202282494

You need to get the lid kit that goes with it, and the 4" inlet kit.  The 4" is easily reduced to 3".  The rest is 3" plumbing to your cleanout or rv dump spot.  Wiring for the pump must be planned for.  We used direct bury wire run alongside the 3" piping. 

For reference our system gravity drains (about 65') from side of garage (where RV is parked) to the tank at the bottom of the hill.  From there the it's pumped uphill  (95' total length at 7% upgrade) to the septic tank.  We dump gray 2x a week and black once a week.  One of the gray dumps is stand alone, the other is black first followed by gray.

PM me for detailed info interested.

 

[Bobtop46]

Lol..

"Look mommy, its a poop fountain"

When We pretested our system (for feasibility) we connected the 2" piping to the pump inside the tank filled with water, with the piping just laid on the ground, and turned on the pump.  Even with 100' of pipe uphill, water still shot up in the air about 2 feet at the top of the hill.  I was impressed by the pump.

 

[Newguystu]

Sounds like a plan. I will just have to be conservative this month and get in touch with my plumber next week. I?ve got a few options to go with but I think the pump is going to be the easiest at least on the maintenance side. All I?ll have to do is dump the black once a week and I can let the greys fill a few days prior to rinse the lines. Thanks for the links and first hand experiences.

I got power hooked up to my home today via the 30 amp plug, and everything seems to be a-ok minus the fridge not cooling while the freezer is getting cold. So we?re getting there.

 

[Lou Schneider]

I got power hooked up to my home today via the 30 amp plug, and everything seems to be a-ok minus the fridge not cooling while the freezer is getting cold. So we?re getting there.

That may be normal.  The freezer has to get down to it's operating temperature before second stage cooling makes it's way to the refrigerator cooling plate (behind the fins).

If the freezer is empty try putting a couple of containers of water in there to provide some thermal mass.  After they freeze, then see if cooling begins in the refrigerator.

 

[Newguystu]

Yep, looks like all is well. I read some troubleshooting on the Dometic fridges and I decided to wait 24 hours before freaking out. As of this afternoon it?s already down around 40 while the freezer is freezing ice trays in hours so there?s that.

I was also able to find a PDF on Kentucky?s sewer and septic requirements, and there are sections on grey water which appear to be doable. I?m going to call my plumber Monday and if need be, meet with my health dept inspector a few days later and try to reason with him. After all, we?re looking at around 20-25 gallons a day output from grey and this doesn?t seem like an alarming flow rate. I?ll update on what we hash out as soon as I have some details!

I really appreciate all the responses! Thank you all so much.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Watch what words you use when asking for rules and inspector advice. You already have a septic system; what you are asking about is ways to deliver some additional gray water to it.  That is a major difference from installing a new septic. Basically you are inquiring about adding another waste water source to an existing septic. The fact that it happens to be uphill is merely an engineering complication, not a health or building code difference.

The gray area (pun intended!) is that you are essentially adding a second home/apartment to the existing septic system and most places have strict rules on the size of the septic vs number of sinks & toilets that can dump to it. The inspector may not have much latitude on that. Further, while you are claiming you will only dump gray water, you are in fact making a plumbing connection that includes black water as well. Since the difference is only the pull of a valve handle, few inspectors could ignore that.

Once you speak to an official other than hypothetically, you are usually pretty much stuck with what you are told. It's hard to change your story after that.

 

[Rene T]

Before going and alerting the town, I would speak to your plumber 1st.

 

[malexander]

If you're unsure of what you "really need", I'd talk to a plumber/septic installed FIRST.
I am a licensed plumber, electrician, HVAC contractor (master in some states). The problem with asking or talking to inspectors is, if they're not really sure about what you're wanting to do, they'll make up an answer to cover themselves. Then maybe even get nosey and start "keeping an eye on you".

I'm not advocating doing anything illegal, but I'd stat with a couple of plumbers first.

 

[Boonieman]

What Gary said is exactly right. Be careful what you say. When we were having our house built I told the septic installer I wanted to have a connection to dump our little blue portable potty tank into the septic from time to time. My thoughts were if we had extra company, they could stay in the fiver and I could just dump the the tow behind potty tank with a four wheeler and not have to take the camper somewhere to dump.
  The installer said ?I can?t install anything like that, but I can install you a clean out, what you do with it is up to you.? He said septic sizing is based on many factors like number of bedrooms, whether or not you have a garbage disposal, etc etc. He said no environmental inspector in this county will approve anything that allows a random indeterminate waste stream into a septic system. As he said, a small tote dumped into a septic system realistically isn?t going to hurt a thing, assuming your system is healthy. But, I guess through experience inspectors have seen the worst out of us and don?t want to be liable.

 

[Dragginourbedaround]

Folks here might be hesitant to respond because of those issues.

Folks here are never hesitant to respond  ;D

 

[Newguystu]

Well I did get information from my local health dept inspector and he suggests putting it directly into septic to prevent any legality issues. Because many people classify the galley water to in fact be black water the only drains I could put into the ground would be shower and bathroom sink, which still leaves me pumping 2 tanks bi-monthly by hand.

So it looks like an in ground pump system is going to be my only option. And if I choose to send all tanks I assume I have to buy a grinder style system which seems to cost more. BUT it eliminates the labor of having to dump tanks for grey, and I can simply pull the black valve twice a month and let the pump send it to my septic tank.

By the way, big props to the little Flowjet 12v pump I bought. Coupled with a 3/4? 75ft hose it did the best, and pumped uphill about 6 feet. It?s a temporary solution but I suggest everyone have one on standby.

 

[Senator]

I run all my grey water from my house right on the lawn.  It's sloped and it's the greenest grass in the yard.  What is a septic system going to do, put the same water a few feet under the grass?

 

[TheBar]

Water from a washing machine or shower is true grey water and I would not object to running it on your lawn. Kitchen sink water will contain scraps of food. Which might be great fertilizer but would attract ants and cockroaches which I would object to.

 

[cavie]

stay away from the building department. Get your answers from a local building contractor.