Hertz returning to gas

[DonTom]

I do eagerly anticipate the time when EVs are truly ready to replace ICEs

IMO, we are already there, with a few exceptions for stuff such as being a toad. Also, the range drops to around half when using it to tow something--a worse drop in range than from a diesel or gas engine. But that endless torque is still there. But even that 50% loss in range will still get you across the USA these days.

I doubt if I could find a place where my Tesla could not go in the USA or Canada, even if I looked my best to find such. The same goes for my Chevy Bolt--but the Bolt's slow fast charging could be an issue, only 55 KW max, unlike the Tesla which will be as high as 250 KW. But they both charge the same speed on a home charge (12KW) and that is what I care the most about.

I wish I could say the same for all my EV motorcycles, which I ride much more than drive my EV cars. But I have one that would be good for driving across the USA, my Energica Experia(I had to special order it from Italy--not many of these in the USA).

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[LarsMac]

A lot of it is in mindset.
I can run 4 hours at a time, and I expect to have advanced somewhere between 250 and 320 miles - weather, traffic, and speed limits permitting - fuel up, eat, and do it again, before pulling up for the night. the car being the limiting factor will take a significant change in my expectations and behavior.
I've made adjustments for when we are running in the Dancer, already, so I'm not saying it can't be done.
We often run 200 - 250 miles the whole day with the RV, where we expect to put on 600-750 in a day's driving in the car. But then we don't have to mess with finding hotels and dining when we stop. so the time at stop is actually more significant than time on the wheel.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I can remember when getting gasoline took a full day, if you could find it at all in the SF Bay Area (late 1970's):

View attachment 173142

-Don- Auburn, CA

Same here. Grew up in SoCal and remember the gas shortage and seeing lines like that.

It's funny. That was the year I started driving and I remember that time, but I don't recall ever having to wait in a line like that for gas. I also remember them instituting some kind of even/odd license plate thing, but I don't recall that affecting me either.

 

[Tulecreeper]

IMO, we are already there, with a few exceptions for stuff such as being a toad.

And towing a 5th Wheel.

 

[DonTom]

A lot of it is in mindset.

For sure. A lot of people are always in a hurry, and they often do not even know why, IMO. Just a habit, in many cases.

I like to take my time when travelling. One of the reasons I hate doing RV reservations. I only do such when there is no choice.

Some EVs are good for practicing patience, IMO. Such as when I am slow charging at a restaurant charge station, usually with one of my electric motorcycles.

Food is taking forever to come. Great! I get a better charge!

Also, I am not going to speed on an electric motorcycle when charge stops are required. I get places faster by going slower, cannot make up for the longer charge times required for speeding.

However, with some EV cars, at some charge stations it is the opposite these days. The charge can be completed well before you're done eating, when charging at 250 or more KWs. My fastest charging motorcycles are my Enerigas, can only charge at 25 KW max. But the battery on my largest one is 22 KWH, unlike the 80 KWH battery in my Tesla.

So the Energica Experia will take about an hour or so from empty to full while on the road. In reality, most of my charges are 20 minutes or less. I rarely let it get much lower than 35% SOC before I recharge. By that time, I will appreciate the break.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Chef Duane]

It's funny. That was the year I started driving and I remember that time, but I don't recall ever having to wait in a line like that for gas. I also remember them instituting some kind of even/odd license plate thing, but I don't recall that affecting me either.

Oh yeah. I forgot about the odd/even license plate thing. Got my license in '75.

 

[lavarock1210]

"It's funny. That was the year I started driving and I remember that time, but I don't recall ever having to wait in a line like that for gas. I also remember them instituting some kind of even/odd license plate thing, but I don't recall that affecting me either."

When the majority of the cars in California are EV you can expect the same or worse. The electrical grid in California and most of the USA will not be able to handle fast charging of EV's without some type of control. I can even see even odd license for when you can charge. Also possibly having to make a reservation at a fast charger while on the road.

I was living in Salt Lake City during the gas crunch. I remember waiting in line only to have the station close before it was my turn because the station run out of fuel. There were also many stations in town that were closed during the gas crunch.

 

[DonTom]

That was the year I started driving and I remember that time, but I don't recall ever having to wait in a line like that for gas.

Where at?

I can only speak for the SF Bay area.

Back then, I only had my 1971 BMW R75/5 motorcycle.

I recall my parents had a full tank in one of their cars. They waited for hours do get it.

They let me siphon six gallons from their car gas tank to fill up my near empty motorcycle, just so I could get to work for the next couple of weeks.

Almost all the driving in those days was either to get to work or to get to an open (not many!) gas station. No Sunday drives and that type of thing back then.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Tulecreeper]

Where at?

I can only speak for the SF Bay area.

Back then, I only had my 1971 BMW R75/5 motorcycle.

I recall my parents had a full tank in one of their cars. They waited for hours do get it.

They let me siphon six gallons from their car gas tank to fill up my near empty motorcycle, just so I could get to work for the next couple of weeks.

Almost all the driving in those days was either to get to work or to get to an open (not many!) gas station. No Sunday drives and that type of thing back then.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Vacaville, CA

 

[DonTom]

When the majority of the cars in California are EV you can expect the same or worse.

Not even possible for many reasons. One is I can use a gas or diesel generator to charge up my EVs. Others are there are many solar charge stations, especially in the middle of the NV desert, such as on Hwy 50. Like this one:


Notice the solar roof. That is at Middlegate, NV on US 50, "the loneliest highway in America" .

I have used this charge station a few times on one of my electric motorcycles.

BTW, no gasoline near there.

And with as many people adding solar to their homes as it is, like this one, it just won't be anything like the phony gas shortages of the late 1970s--done to jack up the gas prices.

Think about this. A gas station line a mile long, because only one gas station is open. If that one gas station's gasoline was shared with 100 other gas stations, would there still be a long gas station lines?

Even if the gasoline supply was infinite, the lines would have been the same when only one out of 100 gas stations are open. It was very obviously planned to shut down most of the gas stations to artificially create the long lines.

There are too many ways to charge up an EV. We can convert gasoline or diesel into electricity very easily. There is no way to do the opposite.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Vacaville, CA

I figured it would be some distance from the SF Bay Area. I assume some still travelled there and back from the SF Bay area, even if that round trip took a half of their gas tank.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Tulecreeper]

I figured it would be some distance from the SF Bay Area. I assume some still travelled there and back from the SF Bay area, even if that round trip took a half of their gas tank.

-Don- Auburn, CA

I lived there from '73 to '80 and it was common for someone's parent(s) to commute to SF or Oakland daily.

 

[DonTom]

I lived there from '73 to '80 and it was common for someone's parent(s) to commute to SF or Oakland daily.

A round trip for the gasoline will be around 120 miles. Certainly, worth the trip in those days.

But I lived in Belmont back then which would be around 150-mile round trip drive to Vacaville.

I cannot remember where my parents got their full tank of gas, but I am fairly sure it wasn't anywhere near San Mateo where they lived at the time.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Onyrlef]

IMO, we are already there, with a few exceptions for stuff such as being a toad.

It's not a matter of opinion, we're not even close to having the infrastructure in place to replace ICE vehicles with EV's. Meantime manufacturers are shifting focus from building EV's to building Hybrids. Other than the very small % of drivers who are willing to tolerate the pita of owning an EV the rest aren't convinced and it's showing as sales have fallen precipitously. Tesla has the most advanced charging network in America and their sales have gone over a cliff. EV's are not yet ready for prime time and the numbers bear that out.

 

[Tulecreeper]

A round trip for the gasoline will be around 120 miles. Certainly, worth the trip in those days.

But I lived in Belmont back then which would be around 150-mile round trip drive to Vacaville.

I cannot remember where my parents got their full tank of gas, but I am fairly sure it wasn't anywhere near San Mateo where they lived at the time.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Yeah, I remember the sign right south of town that read "San Francisco - 52 Miles".

 

[DonTom]

It's not a matter of opinion, we're not even close to having the infrastructure in place to replace ICE vehicles with EV's.

True, it's not a matter of opinion, but fact.

But . . .here are the facts.

And everywhere else will say about the same.

"Most industry experts agree that the nation's electrical grid is up to the task of supporting EVs."

All this makes me wonder where the "opinion" originated. I come to the conclusion it's from very poor and unrealistic math, as if somebody expecting all EVs to charge every day during the peak times. Perhaps most EVs charge up while we sleep. And perhaps once a week or so, often having their charge start after midnight when other usage is very low.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Tesla has the most advanced charging network in America and their sales have gone over a cliff.

Just about anything that goes way up fast must come down about as fast. Now Tesla must compete with countless other cheaper EVs, even with other Teslas--the countless used Teslas that people can buy for half the price.

What is happening now is exactly what I expected a couple of years ago when I said it won't be long before EVs are cheaper than ICE. Now everybody has to drop their prices on new EVs when there are so many good used ones for sale, including around 2,100 from Hertz.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Onyrlef]

True, it's not a matter of opinion, but fact.

But . . .here are the facts.

And everywhere else will say about the same.

"Most industry experts agree that the nation's electrical grid is up to the task of supporting EVs."

Yeah, that's why ERCOT is telling us not to use large appliances and turn the thermostat up this week between 2pm and 10pm when the temps will be in the low 90's. Experts my .....

 

[Skookum]

Yeah, that's why ERCOT is telling us not to use large appliances and turn the thermostat up this week between 2pm and 10pm when the temps will be in the low 90's. Experts my .....

Texas is special and it's clear the grid there is *not* run by experts.

 

[LarsMac]

Texas is special and it's clear the grid there is *not* run by experts.

It's very generous of you to refer to Texas' Electrical Supply as a "Grid"