How to Determine Which 1995 Damon Challenger Model a Non-RV Dealer is Selling

[jim_manley]

Hi,

I'm considering buying a 1995 Damon Challenger from a non-RV used car dealer, and they clearly know nothing about it, calling it a "1995 Chevy P30 motorhome", despite the prominent Challenger logo on all four sides.  It is built on the P30 chassis and does appear to have the 7.4L/454 cubic-inch Chevy engine, a fully-rated version of the constrained engine in Corvettes and Chevy muscle cars from the late 1970s to the early 1990s.  The latter was done to appease insurance companies over HP-to-weight ratio worries, which isn't a problem in a "barge" like the Challenger!

I haven't seen it yet, as it's 120 miles away, and I'm waiting to hear if the dealer can provide the Challenger model number, but, in the meantime, I'm trying to find out as much about it as possible.  The VIN and what I assume is the Damon serial number are in a photo of a portion of the title/registration/something-official, and 30 photos of the vehicle can be seen here:

https://billingsautofinder.com/1995-Chevrolet-P30/Used-VanMinivan/Billings-MT/11314102/Details.aspx

It looks great inside and out in the photos, as it was probably stored indoors when not on the road, and it has 29,980 miles on it.  That means it was driven an average of about 1,250 miles per year over its 24-year lifetime, and the best part is that it's being offered for $14,900!  I'd guess that it was a Grandpa/Grandma-mobile used to visit the kids and grandkids, and everyone's gotten older, with Grandpa/Grandma not able/needing to drive it any more, and the kids not wanting/able to park/store/fuel it.  Of course, the engine's condition depends on how much of a lead foot Grandpa had (especially up hills), but, all of the documentation is reportedly provided, including dealer service records that cover all of the required maintenance intervals and repairs/maintenance performed.

I'll still perform inspections on the compression for each cylinder, brake pads remaining, conditions of belts, evidence of gasket/oil/coolant/transmission leaks, suspension condition, water supply and drain line leak dry rot inside cabinets and under floors, etc.  I will also send engine fluid samples to a lab to see what metals are in them, which is a good indicator of what's abrading more than nominally in wearing-surface components.  1995 is the last year of normally-aspirated (carbureted) engines before fuel-injection became de rigueur to meet significantly-increased pollution control requirements starting in 1996.  So, I'll have to dig out my timing strobe and associated tools to perform tune-ups on this quad-carbed bad boy.

It has two rooftop air conditioners, so that will keep me busy with additional things that can go wrong (A/C compressor seals, especially if they haven't been used for a while, for starters).  Being in Montana, however, that's not as critical as in Phoenix, where I just spent what felt like a month ... last week.  I'll be using the motorhome mostly as mobile housing while doing university Summer lab and field research in severe hardship locations such as Yellowstone and Grand Tetons NPs (I do have to actually collect geology samples!), and some of that will be adjacent to rivers filled with just-barely-snowmelt ... at a sweltering ~33 degrees F.

If anyone can provide some recognition training from the photos accessible via the above link (there's a tab to see larger photos) to determine at least what length it is, if not the model number, I'd be greatly obliged.  It appears from the NADA site that there are at least a dozen 1995 Damon Challenger models on Chevy chassis, ranging from 26 to 34 feet in length.  Using 19.5 inches as the wheel diameters as a mensuration (measurement estimation from photo intelligence) standard, plus there being only one couch forward of the kitchen and convertible table, it appears that it's at least a 30-foot model.  The one full side photo was taken from even with the front, so the portion of the photo of the area toward the rear suffers from perspective distortion.  I don't know the side window sizes, but, the rearmost one would make a good mensuration standard back there.

Any other recommendations on things to look for and check would also be highly appreciated, especially from owners of this vintage.  In the meantime, Google Images is my friend, along with posts and manuals I can find here on the site and Out There on the WWW, but knowing the model will make that a lot easier than comparing photos and drawings to what's on the dealer site.  Once I've decided whether to buy this beast, I'll post my background and what I've discovered about my new-to-me "hobby" project in the Introduce Yourself thread.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

Absolutely identical to the last class A I bought except it only had one roof a/c so I added a window a/c in the bedroom. The model is Challenger, it is made by Damon. It is 32 feet long and definitely the 454. I bought it in 2012 for $6200. I drove it two years and then in Florida it crapped out on me so I decided it was a message from god that after ten years of pinballing all over the country full time it was time to settle down. I lived in it for three more years and then I sold it for $1000 to my nephew. I could have gotten a few more grand for it if I had put it on the open market, but I wanted my nephew to move to Florida. My nephew died last month and I ran an ad in Craigslist and gave it away. It smelled pretty bad since he was dead inside it for a week before he was discovered.

The low mileage is not an advantage, it is a disadvantage. It means it was not used much and that usually means it wasn't taken care of very well. All the rubber will be stiff and in need of replacement. It will nickel and dime you to death no matter how good it looks. If you buy it make sure you have towing insurance. I had to have it towed about six times. One time for 75 miles. That would have cost a fortune.

Here is a post I made a few months after I had bought it:

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,52922.msg489211.html#msg489211

 

[jim_manley]

Hi Tom,

I'm really sorry to hear about your nephew and the circumstances of his passing.  I hope he enjoyed a full life right up until the end.

Thanks very much for the extremely fast and highly informative reply, and the link to some crazed individual with the same name as yours!  Just ... WOW!!!  I'm more interested in the condition of pretty much everything except the engine, which has reportedly had all of the required maintenance done not by just mileage, but, as you pointed out, also time.  Like I said though, I haven't seen it, nor have they posted any photos of the engine or undercarriage.  That would require bending over, opening access panels, and other things that certain people who wear white patent leather shoes and matching belts just don't do.

The listings I've seen suggest that there are 2xx and 3xx model numbers for the various lengths built in 1995 on the Chevy P30 chassis with the 454 engine.  The model numbers seem to correspond to the length, and there's another, longer model number such as those shown on this page - any idea what, exactly, is pictured on the dealer's site, based on the VIN and what I assume is the Damon serial number:

https://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/1995/Damon-Corporation/Motorhomes

I've got the tools and talent to give it a good going over, and I might bring the shop teacher along for his even more expert opinion (I'm the science, technology, engineering, and math teacher at the high school).  I'm an engineer professionally courtesy of the Admiral Rickover School of Underwater Hard Knocks, an airplane and rotorcraft pilot (I built a helicopter, an autogyro, and a seaplane) and I'm a Maker for fun.  I was also later one of the people in SillyCon Valley who brought bits and pieces of the WWW to the masses (we're still debating as to whether that was really as good an idea as it sounded back in the 1990s!).

If I buy this thing, my father-in-law has a shop building on his 40-acre farm where he keeps his late-1970s Class A in tip-top running condition (he's a former Air Force mechanic who's worked on everything, and is a superb welder, to boot).  So, together, we can probably break anything not already broken, but, then fix it all.

I'd really be buying this for the pristine exterior, interior, and structure (if they really are as the photos suggest), and even if I had to replace the engine, transmission, and/or suspension sooner, rather than later, it would be worth it.  Those are pretty common engines and were at their peak of their design arc just before the fuel injection upgrade happened.  In fact, the follow-on 494 cubic-inchers are just the same block with a longer stroke that was designed in from the beginning.  You always start with more metal than you would ever need and gradually increase the bore and stroke until something explodes .... then, you just grab the next block in the collection and don't go quite so wide and deep!

My Mom managed movie theaters for United Artists, and just after she was assigned her first theater to manage, "A Hard Day's Night" was released.  It didn't say in the promotional literature that the theater would be sold out, filled with screaming female teeny-boppers every show for months (you weren't in Wayne, NJ, back then, were you? ).  One very excited girl threw her arms up and out and caught her hemopheliac friend square in the nose with an elbow, causing a gusher like you wouldn't believe, and that the paramedics could barely keep under control on their way out to the meat wagon and the hospital.

"I Don't Wanna Hold Your Hand", but, I might hold your beer (or other imbibement) while being regaled with tales of derring-do that involve serious arm waving and other gyrations to provide the full entertainment effect.  If this becomes The Hobby Project, I'd appreciate answers to questions the designers and builders never thought of, as well as trading sea stories, whether or not they involved combat, or even being at sea!

All the Best,
Jim

A Paperbaaack Wriiiter, Wriiiter, Wriiiter, being a Real Nowhere Man, making all his Nowhere Plans, out here in Strawberry Fields, Forever ...

 

[Lou Schneider]

Hi Jim, welcome to The RV Forum!

I had a 1995 Damon Intruder 350B.  Ask the dealer to look at the decal next to the outside grab handle and see if there's a model number located there.  That's where it was on mine.

Here's a link to the 1996 Challenger brochure, there probably isn't much difference between the 1995 and 1996 models.  Based on the bathroom sink being to the left of the shower, it looks like the 315, which would make it 32 ft. long.

https://media.rvusa.com/library/1996_challenger.pdf

I think you'll find those are 16" wheels and tires, not 19.5.  Ford and Chevy didn't go to 19.5 wheels and tires until a couple years later when they wide-tracked the chassis to match the 102" wide bodies the motorhome manufacturers were making.  At least that's what my 350B had, though it was on the Ford Chassis.

On the good side, 16" tires cost much less than 19.5s, there's a wider market for them as they're used all over the place on 1 ton duallies while the 19.5s are pretty much exclusive to Class A motorhomes and big rigs.

That's one of Damon's long wheelbase, short rear overhang motorhomes. Like my 350B, it should be very stable on the highway as long as the front end is in good shape.  It's resistant to side winds and gusts from passing trucks, if anything they will make the motorhome lean smoothly away from them, which can be fixed with slight countersteering.  Not the back and forth whiplash you'll encounter with a shorter wheelbase and longer rear overhang.

The P30 chassis used airbags inside the front coil springs to share the load because there wasn't enough room for heavier springs.  Make sure the airbags are intact and inflated to the correct pressure for the front end load.  If they're low or missing the front end will ride too low, messing up the steering geometry and making the suspension bottom out on every bump you come across.

Towing insurance (Road Service) is a must with any motorhome.  Just plunk down the $100-150 a year and be done with it.  You'll make it back the first time you need it.  Coach-Net is the gold standard, similar plans are offered by Good Sam, FMCA and Escapees.

 

[SeilerBird]

Hi Tom,

I'm really sorry to hear about your nephew and the circumstances of his passing.  I hope he enjoyed a full life right up until the end.

It was pretty sad. He didn't have a full life at all. Total alcoholic. I doubt he even remembered his last year.

Thanks very much for the extremely fast and highly informative reply, and the link to some crazed individual with the same name as yours!  Just ... WOW!!!  I'm more interested in the condition of pretty much everything except the engine, which has reportedly had all of the required maintenance done not by just mileage, but, as you pointed out, also time.  Like I said though, I haven't seen it, nor have they posted any photos of the engine or undercarriage.  That would require bending over, opening access panels, and other things that certain people who wear white patent leather shoes and matching belts just don't do.

Everyone (dealer or private party) will lie to their own mother to sell an RV. It looks good in the photos but the photos could be 15 years old.

The listings I've seen suggest that there are 2xx and 3xx model numbers for the various lengths built in 1995 on the Chevy P30 chassis with the 454 engine.  The model numbers seem to correspond to the length, and there's another, longer model number such as those shown on this page - any idea what, exactly, is pictured on the dealer's site, based on the VIN and what I assume is the Damon serial number:

https://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/1995/Damon-Corporation/Motorhomes

No clue whatsoever. Mine was a 1994.

I've got the tools and talent to give it a good going over, and I might bring the shop teacher along for his even more expert opinion (I'm the science, technology, engineering, and math teacher at the high school).  I'm an engineer professionally courtesy of the Admiral Rickover School of Underwater Hard Knocks, an airplane and rotorcraft pilot (I built a helicopter, an autogyro, and a seaplane) and I'm a Maker for fun.  I was also later one of the people in SillyCon Valley who brought bits and pieces of the WWW to the masses (we're still debating as to whether that was really as good an idea as it sounded back in the 1990s!).

I would suggest that you hire a real live RV mobile mechanic to go over the RV. You and your shop teacher will not really know what to look for. A professional will cost a few hundred bucks but could save you from making a many thousand dollar mistake.

My Mom managed movie theaters for United Artists, and just after she was assigned her first theater to manage, "A Hard Day's Night" was released.  It didn't say in the promotional literature that the theater would be sold out, filled with screaming female teeny-boppers every show for months (you weren't in Wayne, NJ, back then, were you? ).  One very excited girl threw her arms up and out and caught her hemopheliac friend square in the nose with an elbow, causing a gusher like you wouldn't believe, and that the paramedics could barely keep under control on their way out to the meat wagon and the hospital.

"I Don't Wanna Hold Your Hand", but, I might hold your beer (or other imbibement) while being regaled with tales of derring-do that involve serious arm waving and other gyrations to provide the full entertainment effect.  If this becomes The Hobby Project, I'd appreciate answers to questions the designers and builders never thought of, as well as trading sea stories, whether or not they involved combat, or even being at sea!

I don't drink whatsoever but I would be happy to answer any and all questions you might have. I am here every day so either post them here or send me an email.

The Dutchess of Kircaldy always smiling
And arriving late for tea
The Duke was having problems
With a message at the local Bird and Bee.

Betcha don't know that one without Google. I saw the Beatles live in 65 at the Hollywood Bowl and in 66 at Dodger Stadium. I saw George in 74 at the Long Beach Forum on the Dark Horse tour, Paul in 76 at the LA Forum, Ringo in 78, Paul in Florida three times in the last few years and Ringo about two years ago here in Florida.

 

[jim_manley]

Hi Lou,

Thanks for the Howdy Neighbor!  I actually had a college classmate legally named Howdy Neighbor from Somewhere Out in The Middle of Nowhere ... says the guy transmitting from The Middle of Montana.  When you get to The Middle of Nowhere, a sign points down a rough, gully-ridden animal track with a sign pointing to it that says, "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Montana - Keep Going Until Despondence Overtakes Thee and Thou Shalt Have Arrived".

The 19.5-inch wheels are based on data on some official-looking form posted in the photos on the dealer site, attached below.  It's also based on their size when compared to the only slightly larger apparent width of the side door in the photo of the right side of the vehicle, attached below, which should be at least 24 inches wide, AIUI.

I'm very familiar with the air suspension bladders, as they're used to actively dampen out vibrations (via computer control) on a ~10-foot diameter, 20-ton, far-IR and visible-light reflector telescope.  It's carried on board the NASA/DLR (Deutsches Zentrum f?r Luft und Raumfahrt e.V. - German Aerospace Center) Stratospheric Observatory For Infrared Astronomy (SOFIA) aircraft, which is a highly-modified 747SP that I worked on a number of years ago.  The road stability will be most welcome if the Challenger behaves as you described.

I've been a big fan of towing insurance ever since my first tow vehicle's clutch died in 1976, and the alternative would have been to leave a recently-acquired boat on its trailer on a shoulder of I-80 well East of Reno for days while the TV's clutch was replaced.  I've been not only towing stuff for a while, but, designing and building my own tiny homes and teardrop trailers.  If I buy it, the Challenger will be my first Class A that my wife will be in full-time while I get to go play around in geological sandboxes and labs during the day.  I've already got a Dish Tailgater antenna and Wally receiver with a DVR ready to install on whatever I wind up acquiring.  I suppose I should think about projecting the video on a screen on the bedroom ceiling, given my habit of falling asleep after dinner while getting up-to-date on the craziness of the world I did my part to keep at least a bit more sane than insane while deployed overseas during a career in the Navy, mostly during humanitarian operations.

Thanks again for the welcome and I'm looking forward to contributing at least as much as I receive from the experts here.  The rallies sound like lots of fun, and maybe I'll wind up helping organize some up here where we take breathtaking scenery seriously - ours just threatens to freeze you to death instead of fatally broiling you when you make a navigational error!

All the Best,
Jim

Hi Jim, welcome to The RV Forum!

I had a 1995 Damon Intruder 350B.  Ask the dealer to look at the decal next to the outside grab handle and see if there's a model number located there.  That's where it was on mine.

Here's a link to the 1996 Challenger brochure, there probably isn't much difference between the 1995 and 1996 models.  Based on the bathroom sink being to the left of the shower, it looks like the 315, which would make it 32 ft. long.

https://media.rvusa.com/library/1996_challenger.pdf

I think you'll find those are 16" wheels and tires, not 19.5.  Ford and Chevy didn't go to 19.5 wheels and tires until a couple years later when they wide-tracked the chassis to match the 102" wide bodies the motorhome manufacturers were making.  At least that's what my 350B had, though it was on the Ford Chassis.

On the good side, 16" tires cost much less than 19.5s, there's a wider market for them as they're used all over the place on 1 ton duallies while the 19.5s are pretty much exclusive to Class A motorhomes and big rigs.

That's one of Damon's long wheelbase, short rear overhang motorhomes. Like my 350B, it should be very stable on the highway as long as the front end is in good shape.  It's resistant to side winds and gusts from passing trucks, if anything they will make the motorhome lean smoothly away from them, which can be fixed with slight countersteering.  Not the back and forth whiplash you'll encounter with a shorter wheelbase and longer rear overhang.

The P30 chassis used airbags inside the front coil springs to share the load because there wasn't enough room for heavier springs.  Make sure the airbags are intact and inflated to the correct pressure for the front end load.  If they're low or missing the front end will ride too low, messing up the steering geometry and making the suspension bottom out on every bump you come across.

Towing insurance (Road Service) is a must with any motorhome.  Just plunk down the $100-150 a year and be done with it.  You'll make it back the first time you need it.  Coach-Net is the gold standard, similar plans are offered by Good Sam, FMCA and Escapees.1
[/q11uote]

 

[jim_manley]

Everyone (dealer or private party) will lie to their own mother to sell an RV. It looks good in the photos but the photos could be 15 years old.
No clue whatsoever. Mine was a 1994.
I would suggest that you hire a real live RV mobile mechanic to go over the RV. You and your shop teacher will not really know what to look for. A professional will cost a few hundred bucks but could save you from making a many thousand dollar mistake.
I don't drink whatsoever but I would be happy to answer any and all questions you might have. I am here every day so either post them here or send me an email.

The Dutchess of Kircaldy always smiling
And arriving late for tea
The Duke was having problems
With a message at the local Bird and Bee.

Betcha don't know that one without Google.

I'm glad we both don't drink alcohol, and I never have, especially after watching my Mom die of liver cancer at an all-too-early age.  Smoking didn't help, either, but, every time she tried to quit. she gained weight - the companies that make those poisons don't deserve to be in business when that sort of addiction is part of their business plan.

Of course the people who wear white patent leather shoes and matching belts lie  ... they don't get eaten by sharks when they wind up floating in the ocean out of professional courtesy.  The price is a starting point, and everything is negotiable, so, if this rig is worth buying, I won't be paying the asking price.  One of the reasons I needed the model number (which Lou was able to kindly provide) was so that I can accurately determine the average and upper limit of what the market has borne for this make, model. vintage, and condition.  My father-in-law will be able to come and lend his decades of expertise keeping Class As running like tops, since I've only been under pretty much everything with an infernal combustion engine, up through the types of trucks with chassis that these RVs are based on, for over 50 years.  I've also been building tiny homes on wheels and teardrop trailers, as well as full homes, for quite a while, too, to include carpentry, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, networking, etc., so, that should have some benefit.

As for 15 year-old photos, normal people aren't aware that digital photo files contain metadata that includes the date and time they're taken, along with other interesting factoids such as what camera model they were taken with, camera settings such as shutter speed, f-stop number, GPS coordinates and magnetic compass direction (if so equipped) ... and/or scanner model if originally from film/prints, and/or image editing software program used if they're doctored.  While metadata itself can be edited/stripped, you have to know it's there to be able to do that, and I'll bet you didn't know _that_.

Of course I know "Cry Baby Cry" from "The Beatles" without Gurgle, if you mean the song with the lyrics, "The Duchess of Kirkcaldy ... " - yes, spelling does matter, even in lyrics ...

George was the real musical genius, BTW, in terms of composition, lyrics, licks, and humanity, while Paul has been a corporate sell-out for bubble-gum pop forever, John was a political media whore egged on by Yoko, and Ringo ... well, we all know how powerful and influential "Octopus Garden" was ... your mileage may vary. of course.  If that doesn't poop on your parade too badly, then we'll get along juuuuust fine, and I'll value your MH opinions in any case ...

All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

I am not a normal people. I am a retired professional photographer and I understand metadata all too well. I am glad you do too because using old photos is a common tactic among RV sellers. I hope you are able to get the unit. I was very happy with mine. I lived in it for five years. Yes the tires are 19.5 as I remember. I have already thought of several things to tell you about if you should buy it.

Both my parents died at an early age due to alcohol. The smoking didn't help them either. So sad to watch the people you love destroying their lives and there is nothing you can do about it except make a point of not making the same mistakes. I have outlived both of them by a lot of years.

I bet neither George nor John knew how to spell Kirkcaldy either. That will teach me to copy and paste. I agree, spelling does matter.

 

[jim_manley]

I am not a normal people. I am a retired professional photographer and I understand metadata all too well. I am glad you do too because using old photos is a common tactic among RV sellers. I hope you are able to get the unit. I was very happy with mine. I lived in it for five years. Yes the tires are 19.5 as I remember. I have already thought of several things to tell you about if you should buy it.

Both my parents died at an early age due to alcohol. The smoking didn't help them either. So sad to watch the people you love destroying their lives and there is nothing you can do about it except make a point of not making the same mistakes. I have outlived both of them by a lot of years.

I bet neither George nor John knew how to spell Kirkcaldy either. That will teach me to copy and paste. I agree, spelling does matter.

Ah, good, another nerd who understands physics at a level to actually do useful as well as artistic things!  I'm teaching STEM for mostly practical and selfish reasons, one of which is to literally help keep the lights on as Boomer techs retire in increasing numbers each year, each taking their half-century of expertise with them.  It's extremely scary that we are millions of people short of the number needed in the educational and training pipeline today to keep civilization alive, let alone comfortable, in the U.S. alone.  That's not just engineers and scientists, but, the all-important technicians (some of whom are probably on this forum providing Really Useful Stuff).  They've been denigrated as being replaceable cogs in The Machine, with no creativity, sophistication, or other qualities that elitists value ... until the power, plumbing, HVAC, network, vehicle, medical equipment, etc., stop working at 2 AM in The Middle of Nowhere, or even on The Top Floor of Somewhere.  I love Mike Rowe's scholarship program that recruits kids who didn't wind up going to college, and encourages them to learn skills in a trade, technology area, and so forth, which routinely pay in the high five figures to six figures, without any college courses required at all.  That's basically what I did in the Navy as an officer, as part of my many other primary and collateral duties.  I found I had to do the same for even young engineers in SillyCon Valley who knew lots of theory, but, couldn't actually do anything even remotely useful.

I determined from the Challenger's license plate that the previous owner lives/lived in a county adjacent to that in which Billings is located, where the MH is for sale.  I'll be able to track him down (if not through the dealer) and, if he's still alive and willing/able, he may be able to answer some questions which may be useful, and for which the dealer has no clue.  Many rubber components, even in the 1990s, have been made from synthetic compounds which aren't susceptible to dry rot, hardening, and other damage that those made from natural rubber are, especially if they're kept cool, dry, and out of UV exposure.  Tires are an interesting exception simply because they're still basically made the same way as they have been for the past century, primarily for economic reasons, mixing a version of what amounts to a subset of rubber tree sap, with carbon black, sulphur, steel belts, and some other secret herbs and spices mixed in for durability, wet and dry friction, flexibility, strength, chemical stability, etc.

Perfect spelling is required to develop software - even one misplaced character can cause a pile of millions of lines of code to come crashing down in a useless heap during a build.  I can spell pretty well at upwards of 200 wpm, which is both a valuable skill as well as a professional hazard.  Family and friends say that I suffer from diarrhea of the fingertips when I get anywhere near a real or virtual keyboard and start writing e-mails, texts, posts, etc., as you've now discovered, much to your misfortune - sorry about that!

So much fun, so little time ... I'm hoping that the Challenger, or something similar, will help increase the fun opportunities that have nothing to do with keyboards, displays, networks, or even electricity, at least for reasonable periods of time ...

 

[SeilerBird]

I started writing software in 1980 on an Atari 800 in Basic. In the 90s I had a web site for 8 years called Graphics Depot. So I totally understand the need for proper spelling and punctuation. If you complain too much about someone's spelling and/or punctuation you will get labelled a spelling ****. So I tend not to correct too many people. But it does amaze me how many people get two, too and to mixed up, along with many variations of they're, there and their. But then again if spell check doesn't tell them then they never know.

 

[Old_Crow]

Lots of what Judge Judy would call "fluff" in that description.  I think you're right that the seller doesn't know much about the rig since he can't tell "high end premium wheels" from plain old stock stainless steel wheel covers.
That being said, the rig looks good in the pics, and could give you many miles of smiles, especially if you're handy with tools and don't mind tinkering with it(this forum is a big help there).  Our first motor home was an '89 on a P30 that we bought when it was over 20 years old.  We owned it 5 years, put more miles on it in that time than the original owner did in the whole 20+ years she owned it and got more for it than we paid when we sold it.  Only major expenses in that 5 years were caused by storm damage while it was parked in my yard.
Good luck!

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Just so you know... The VIN won't tell you anything about the motorhome model or equipment - it is assigned to the chassis and was created before the chassis was sold to a Damon to carry a motorhome body. Basically the VIN is going to decode to say it's a certain year of Chevrolet Forward Control chassis with a 454 engine. The year the chassis was built may not even be the same as the final coach model year, so don't be surprised if the VIN says 1993 or 1994.

Re the "Vehicle Options" shown in that listing:  A 1995 P30 doesn't have ABS, Traction Control or A stability system. Nor does a 1995 Challenger have child safety locks, air bags, interior rearview mirror, split bench seat or numerous other things listed there. In short, it's a pack of lies, total fabrication.

The vehicle placard in the photo does indeed state that it has 19.5" wheels (8R19.5, a size no longer widely available). Unusual for a 1995, but not unheard of.

It looks to be very clean and well-kept. If it were not, the value would be under $10,000, but this one may be worth a premium. The NADA value is all but meaningless for a 25 year old RV - condition is all that matters.

 

[Ernie n Tara]

Don't count too much on synthetic elastomers having better resistance to aging than NR. NR doesn't like ozone or UV, but otherwise ages as well as synthetics and resists fatigue damage twice as well (typically has twice the fatigue life). By actual test synthetics like neoprene and nitrile do age out in line with the seven year recommended life.

The reason synthetics may seem to last longer is that they are often in low fatigue applications. Basically, that means they are often over designed for the application.

Ernie

 

[TheBar]

IMHO low mileage is better unless it sat with dirty oil in the engine for years. The engine/transmission seals tend to dry out quicker when not used but other rubber parts are dependent only on age.  For that price if you have to replace seals it is still a bargain. Since you have maintenance records seals may not be an issue. If kept inside my formula is take the age and divide by 2. It doesn't age nearly as fast out of the elements. I bought my 97 five years ago. It had 55K miles and everybody told me I'd have nothing but problems since it sat unused for 10 years. But I checked it out thoroughly before I bought it.  I've had zero problems/repairs and use it about 90 days a year. From bumper to bumper everything is still like new and functions like new.  You will need to re-caulk everything because caulk ages much faster than rubber. Also change all fluids, engine, transmission, differential, purge brakes, power steering, and radiator. If not you may have problems.

 

[SeilerBird]

I just looked at the brochure and mine was definitely a 313 and I would bet that the one you are looking at is 313 also. It is weird seeing what it looked like when it was new. The one I bought was owned by a pair of very "friendly" ladies who were living in it full time and they had put up new wallpaper and painted everything white. Removed the dining room furniture and couch. Put up metal window shades and put down wood flooring. They also owned 19 cats. It made it real easy to keep it clean. And I loved it because it saved me the trouble of ripping all that stuff out myself so I could fit in all my musical instruments and a 55 inch 4k TV.

 

[jim_manley]

Lots of what Judge Judy would call "fluff" in that description.  I think you're right that the seller doesn't know much about the rig since he can't tell "high end premium wheels" from plain old stock stainless steel wheel covers.
That being said, the rig looks good in the pics, and could give you many miles of smiles, especially if you're handy with tools and don't mind tinkering with it(this forum is a big help there).  Our first motor home was an '89 on a P30 that we bought when it was over 20 years old.  We owned it 5 years, put more miles on it in that time than the original owner did in the whole 20+ years she owned it and got more for it than we paid when we sold it.  Only major expenses in that 5 years were caused by storm damage while it was parked in my yard.
Good luck!

Hi Wally,

This thing will only need to cover about 1,000 miles through this Summer to get me between university campuses and provide a place to call Home Away From Home.  If it's up to it, perhaps a bit more mileage will allow for trips to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons NPs and back, and that will only require a couple of hours each way from the university campus.  After that, if it's going to need a lot of work, for a while it may become a nice Man Cave, Ma'am Cave, She Shed, Lady Lounge, Hen Pen, Dame Dome, Femme Den, Heel Haven, Girly Grotto, Her Haunt, Lady's Lair, Fox Hole, etc.

Thanks for responding, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[jim_manley]

Just so you know... The VIN won't tell you anything about the motorhome model or equipment - it is assigned to the chassis and was created before the chassis was sold to a Damon to carry a motorhome body. Basically the VIN is going to decode to say it's a certain year of Chevrolet Forward Control chassis with a 454 engine. The year the chassis was built may not even be the same as the final coach model year, so don't be surprised if the VIN says 1993 or 1994.

Re the "Vehicle Options" shown in that listing:  A 1995 P30 doesn't have ABS, Traction Control or A stability system. Nor does a 1995 Challenger have child safety locks, air bags, interior rearview mirror, split bench seat or numerous other things listed there. In short, it's a pack of lies, total fabrication.

The vehicle placard in the photo does indeed state that it has 19.5" wheels (8R19.5, a size no longer widely available). Unusual for a 1995, but not unheard of.

It looks to be very clean and well-kept. If it were not, the value would be under $10,000, but this one may be worth a premium. The NADA value is all but meaningless for a 25 year old RV - condition is all that matters.

Hi Gary,

Yep, I know the VIN is from the chassis/engine manufacturer, but, it's useful for CarFax and similar records searches, if any shops submitted descriptions of work they did to the Big Databases in the Sky.  I can also use it to verify the claims that "all required maintenance was performed" and by whom.  A lot of people don't know that shops (even independents) submit that data (unless you specifically tell them not to ... because the FBI is on your tail?) as they get paid for that data.  It's important for parts, assembly, vehicle, and RV manufacturers, marketeers, government safety and regulatory agencies, etc.  As I've noted, there's a second number after the VIN that I'm guessing is the MH manufacturer serial number.

I did laugh out loud when I saw all of the stuff listed like the ABS, traction control, child safety locks, air bags, interior rearview mirror, and split bench seat ... although it does have split bench seats ... split among the living and dining areas!  Those fibs are the kind of thing I use to jaw a seller down, because they don't want me to report them for a lack of truth in advertising, do they?

Thanks for the groups and All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

Heel Haven? I love it. ;D

 

[jim_manley]

Don't count too much on synthetic elastomers having better resistance to aging than NR. NR doesn't like ozone or UV, but otherwise ages as well as synthetics and resists fatigue damage twice as well (typically has twice the fatigue life). By actual test synthetics like neoprene and nitrile do age out in line with the seven year recommended life.

The reason synthetics may seem to last longer is that they are often in low fatigue applications. Basically, that means they are often over designed for the application.

Ernie

Hi Ernie,

My best friend from high school is a chemical engineer and his specialty is synthetic compounds.  I teach chemistry and spent a career as a multi-disciplinary engineer, but, those are probably marks against me!  Some materials are chemically stable as long as they're not exposed to extreme temperatures, humidity, UV, strongish acids/bases, compression/tension/twisting, etc., while other stuff continues to undergo reactions internally, and the latter is what can't be counted upon to remain "factory fresh", even if sealed up in packaging and stored in a cool, dry place.

Performance is almost always a function of cost, which is usually the determining design factor, especially in consumer products, and particularly those lower in the price spectrum that may not get a lot of use by less-than-full-timers, like RVs.  I'm both a scientist and engineer and people think the difference is that engineers just apply what scientists discover about stuff, but, that's not even half the story.  Engineers are required to take (and actually excel in) economics, while scientists aren't, because engineers have to deliver things that meet specs within very strict contract cost and schedule requirements.

If scientists know in advance how much it's going to cost to discover something, then they're not actually performing science - way more than half the time, their hypotheses are complete bunk and have to be discarded or modified before anything even remotely valuable is confirmed.  I performed work for the Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency, which contracted with the people who actually did invent the Internet, among lots of other Very Cool Stuff most civilians never hear about.  If someone wasn't failing at least half the time, they would pull their money and give it to someone else, because they weren't taking enough risk.

Anywaaaay, thanks for the input, and I'm sure that, during my inspection, I'm going to, paraphrasing George C. Scott in "Patton", " ... put my hand in a pile of goo that a few moments earlier was my best friend's face", except it will be some former NR or synthetic seal, cushion, gasket, insulation, ad nauseum (emphasis on the nausea).  I'll be sure to post ugly photos of any deceased material I come across ... I'm hoping I don't find any remains of drifters, hobos, murder victims ... large ticket item salespeople and lawyers will be OK, though!

All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

The one thing you will probably need to do is remove a dreaded poop pyramid. Just about every old RV has one. When you go camping and there is a sewer hookup, people who don't know any better just open both the black drain valve and the grey drain valve. But that s wrong. The black valve should be closed. If left open there is not enough liquid to carry the solids out of the tank. So the solids build up and form a poo pile. In order to inspect for a poop pyramid you need to drill a hole in the tank so you can see inside. There is a 90 degree bend between the valve and the tank so you can't see in there. There is 90 degree bend at the bottom of the toilet and another one going into the tank so there is no way to see inside of the tank. There are two options. You can install a tank rinser like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BUQOCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or get an endoscope camera like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYTHWK4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Search the forum for "Poop pyramid" and you can read a few stories...