Is A 20 Year old MH Too old to buy?

[janal]

We purchased a 36 ft. 1995 Monaco Windsor this summer and are very pleased with our purchase. Previously we had a fifth wheel but sold it four years ago as we decided to take a time out from RV?ing and tour different parts of the world. This past summer we decided that we would get back into Rv?ing and would buy a used coach. We did not want to make a big investment as we were unsure of home much we would use a coach and if we were really into the RV lifestyle.

There are a number of things that you have to consider before buying a coach. Has the coach suffered damage as a result of an accident, has the coach been well maintained, has the coach been used by the previous owner and what is the overall condition of the coach. The big issue with used coaches of any age is the maintenance of the unit; many owners buy coaches and do not maintain them as they simply cannot afford to do so. From what I have learned a lot of people buy coaches and simply do not realize the cost of maintaining and operating them. There has been no consideration of the cost of oil and lube jobs, replacing tires, replacing batteries, servicing the engine and transmission and of course the shop rate when you go in for repairs, $90.00 per hour. A lot of people finance Rv?s and can barely make their payments let alone buy fuel and maintain their coach.

The other thing that we discovered is that there are a lot of coach owners that have purchased newer coaches with gas motors and are real unhappy with their gas mileage and lack of power. The engine life of a gas motor powering a large coach is going to be limited as is your ability to load it up and tow a vehicle.

I have a friend that does contract RV carpeting and upholstery work for a large RV dealer here in my home town. My friend has many horror stories about new RV?s that are so poorly made that they are in the shop more than they are on the road. My friend will tell you that many of the older coaches are far better made than the newer crop of coaches.

We gathered as much information as possible and decided that we would buy a well made used coach with a diesel motor and an Allison transmission. The Monaco we purchased has a Cummings motor and a six speed Allison transmission; the coach had 81,000 miles on it when we purchased it. Before we purchased the coach I met with the owner of the shop that had done the maintenance work on the coach and I was reasonably satisfied that the coach had been maintained properly. The appliances were in good shape and working properly, the furnace and air conditioners were functioning properly, the tires were in good condition, the motor and transmission were in good running condition although they both needed servicing, the generator was serviced and working, the dash air conditioning had recently been replace and the body of the coach was in reasonably good shape considering that the coach had spent most of its life in the warm California sun. The carpet needed replacing, one half of the windshield needed to be replaced as it was delaminated and there was a number of small repairs that needed to be made. When we returned home we took the coach in to have the motor checked out as there was an minor oil leak that need to be taken care of, the transmission was serviced, we had a wheel alignment done, the brakes were checked, the wheel bearing packed etc. The bill was $1,800.00 and the coach was given a clean bill of health.

We replaced the carpet and installed cork flooring in the shower area and in the bathroom, this really improved the interior look of the coach and updated it. We have a number of other projects to do in the spring but for now we are going to spend the next three months in southern California, Arizona and Texas.

Lastly, if you are going to buy a used coach and you want to avoid the service shop be prepared to take on a part time job servicing and maintaining your coach.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Smoky]

He asked a question about if it is true that most motorhomes eventually develop leaks in the roof.  He also asked, if this is true how do you safeguard against it.

Wow, I am interested in these questions and have been looking for an answer.  Anyone got an answer?

 

[Shayne]

On the rubber roofs you coat them regularly. 

 

[Smoky]

OK.  We have a one piece fiberglass roof.  I don't think the roof itself would leak, but seams and caulking?  How often does that have to be renewed?

 

[Jim Godward]

Smoky,

You are there!!  They should be inspected and repaired as necessary.  I suspect you may have a tape and they painted over that for the roof.  Inspect ALL seams and take care of any that are marginal before they leak.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I'd look for an older Holiday Rambler or Monaco coach. Also a American Coach (American Eagle or Dream) . Hawkins made some excellent coaches in the early 90's too. There are probably more but that should get you started.

Try to get one with a size speed auto instead of the 4 - much better.  I was never impressed with those 190 and 230 hp 5.9's. The 250, 270 and 300 hp versions were much better performers but they required the larger transmission, which drove the price up and put them in the more high end coaches.

 

[IwannaRV]

Where can I find the base price of a MH is when it was new? I thought NADA should have it but I couldn't find it.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Sometimes NADA lists it, but not often. 

Why do you care? Trying to identify the better brands/models, perhaps?

You should be able to get a 1996 Holiday Rambler Endeavor diesel for under $25k. In fact, you might even get one with a slide for around that price.

 

[IwannaRV]

Sometimes NADA lists it, but not often. 

Why do you care? Trying to identify the better brands/models, perhaps?

You should be able to get a 1996 Holiday Rambler Endeavor diesel for under $25k. In fact, you might even get one with a slide for around that price.

Yes, that and seeing the depreciation. What differentiates lets say a 96 32" Holiday Rambler Endeavor diesel from a Gulfstream 32' similarly equipped diesel? Is it the frame, the engine, how the box is put together, the interior, the appliances that set them apart?
Where are good places to look for "deals". I assume not rvtrader.com

 

[motojavaphil]

As I am reading this one thing sure comes through and that is staying on top of PM and fixing the things that have failed will help retain value and liviability.  It would seem that there are some schools, besides hard knocks, that a mechanically disinclined person like me could take to keep the rig in good condition.  Generally most systems seem to have a logical flow to them and can be figured out quickly if one takes the time.  I have also been blindsided by the way things are put together in MH's/5r's with what appears to be backwards engineering.  I will work on motorcycles, but things are in front of you.  In a MH many systems are hidden and you just know whats back there unless you have never been there.  Understanding basic plumbing, refrigeration, heating, electrical and mechanical seems like it would be invaluable in a rig 20 years old or even one year old.  I know my confidence level is strained when I attempt to work on or diagnose problems on my 7 year old coach.  I can only imagine on a 20 year old coach.  Do they have any classes out at Qz or anywhere?
Thanks, Phil

 

[Shayne]

Differences are Quality, quality,quality, quality control, quality control, quality control, and craftsmanship, craftsmanship, craftsmanship.  It's the same as buying something decent or buying JUNK  That's the best and only way I can explain them  I've had them. JMO  But it appears you don't want to listen to the people advising you.  Wise up and smell the roses and let that 20 yr old double priced junker sit  It will be your down fall.

 

[Jeff]

Phil:

I don't remember any at QZ but all the large RV rallies that FMCA and Affinty put on do. Escapees has some informational rallies but the Escapades are not large enough to draw the manufacturers that the other national rallies do.

 

[motojavaphil]

Thanks for the info on the  classes.  We are in the process of joining the FMCA just for that very purpose, to get access to tech stuff although this forum is awesome along those lines.  We will have attend a rally.
Phil

 

[Jim Godward]

I was going to suggest attending the QZ rally as many will be there with a lot of expertise.  I have learned a lot wandering around asking questions over the past 12 years there!! VVBG  Then if you ask the vendors at the show, many will help out and explain how to use their equipment too although it is sometimes hard to get to the displays.

There is usually a lot of help at the RV Forum rallies if you look lost.  There are a couple of guys that just love to drill holes in RVs too!  BG

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

What differentiates lets say a 96 32" Holiday Rambler Endeavor diesel from a Gulfstream 32' similarly equipped diesel? Is it the frame, the engine, how the box is put together, the interior, the appliances that set them apart?

All of those things, except perhaps the major appliances themselves. Actual appliances (tv, water heater, furnace, a/c) tend to be either identical of slightly different models from the same appliance manufacturers.  However, design of the water and electrical systems can and do vary quite a bit.

Quality of design, materials, construction and attention to detail is the difference.

The better rigs will generally have  a sturdier frame, higher torque engine and superior transmission, all of which will contribute to your enjoyment and long term reliability.  The 190 hp diesel with the 4 speed tranny was an attempt to get diesel prices down enough to be competitive with a gas chassis, but it was a poor tradeoff.

 

[Chet18013]

We have a 1991 Beaver Marquis. This was the top of the line when it was build. Still looks good. We have had the coach for 13 years now and love it. It has 140,000 miles on it and it is built on a 1,000,000 mile design Gelleg bus chassis. We have toured several of the big MH factories and what I see is that the newer coaches just don't measure up to the quality or workmanship of our old beast. We have had this coach in 49 states and all provinces of Canada, but one. It has always been stored under cover when not traveling. Yes, there have been a couple of leaks due to dried caulk which were promptly taken care of. The best thing you can do to prevent leaks is park it under cover when not traveling.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you have a good, older coach you can be happy with it. We certainly don't plan on getting rid of ours anytime soon. Besides, it's PAID for.

Chet18013

 

[Ron]

I just bet you will still have the Beaver even after you get that 1.5 Mil you mentioned elswhere Chet.

 

[Jackliz]

Are you just asking for trouble eeven if its been gone through by a tech?

It all depends upon how well it was maintained by the previous owners. We live fulltime in a 1993 Bluebird Wanderlodge that we purchased in 2004. We had a 1995 Serengeti, previously. We talked to a LOT of Wanderlodge owners before purchasing. Bluebirds, built like a tank and with quality. 


Regards,
Liz

 

[Chet18013]

I just bet you will still have the Beaver even after you get that 1.5 Mil you mentioned elswhere Chet.

You got that right , Ron.

Chet18013

 

[Ron]

You got that right , Ron.

Chet18013

Guess we should claify that your Bever is from the old school and was manufactured by Beaver BEFORE Safari got hold of them and did their number on them.