Legality of Using LT vs. ST Tires

[freestoneangler]

Does anyone know if there are legal issues with using other than ST series tires on an RV whose tire placard/sticker lists those as the approved tire?  Legal in the sense that if the RV was involved in a serious accident that insurance companies could use this factor in claims and/or receiving a traffic fine.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

No legal issues at all, as long as the tire chosen is rated adequate for the load. There is no legal requirement to use ST tires on any trailer, either as original equipment or replacements. However, failure to use "adequate" tires for the size/weight of the trailer exposes the owner (and the shop installing them) to a civil suit if damages result somehow.  If you choose to use a tire other than what the trailer manufacturer recommends, then you assume at least partial liability for making a correct choice. If you use the recommended one, then you can point to the trailer manufacturer if there is a lawsuit. They are a bigger target than you!

Many new trailers, mostly larger ones, come with LT tires rather than ST.

 

[lavarock1210]

Using an ST tire on a car or truck may be a problem as it clearly states on all ST tires I have seen Trailer Use Only.

 

[John From Detroit]

Under the Commercial Vehicle codes.  There are indeed regulations as to what tires you can and can not use... I stress under the Commercial codes (NOTE: This info is specific to Michigan and your millage may vary)

But Motor homes and RV trailers are NOT covered in that part of the code.. They are under the basic Vehicle Code.. same as your car or pickup.. Except for one trip (Factory to dealer) when they are Commercial. (But you don't own it then).

 

[FastEagle]

It depends.

This is a quote from a NHTSA interpretation.

"Industry standards generally form the basis for demonstrating product safety and quality before courts, regulators, retailers, consumers and others."

This is a common tire industry standard; Replacement tires MUST  provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires (via inflation).

This is an excerpt from the vehicle in use regulation. ?A mismatch in size and construction between tires on the same axle, or a major deviation from the size recommended by the vehicle or tire manufacturer, is a cause for rejection.?

And, you might ask yourself why a tire manufacturer will not knowingly replace OE tires that are designed as ST tires with tires designed as LT tires?

The vehicle manufacturer is the only one with the authority to select and fit OE tires on your vehicle. In doing so they must submit documentation to NHTSA that the OE tires are an appropriate fitment for each vehicle they certify. That puts them in a mail fraud situation. How binding is that regulation. About $17,000.00 fine for each event.

The OE tires are benchmark tires. All subsequent replacements are supposed to be selected from the information found on the certification label. The vehicle manufacturer can offer an options list. Normally such a list will only include a replacement that the vehicle manufacturer deems appropriate. 

My reference materials date from the final tire rules of 2007. Nothing significant has happened since then with the exception of speed letters being added to tires imported from China. And, I see that the new GY trailer tires also have them.

ST tires are designed for the mundane tasks of supporting a specific load that has no drive, steer or traction requirements. They just cannot be adequately compared to tires of other designs like the LT.  If you go back to 2005 & 2006 and research Keystone RV trailers with 6000# GAWR axles, you will find that all of them were fitted with  LT235/85R16E  tires. Their failure rate was very similar to ST tires used on the same GAWR axles. There were 3-4 major brands used so it wasn?t just the Mission tires from China that were failing. So were the Uniroyal?s from Michelin.

So, a like sized LT tire, LT235/85R16E rated at 3042# of load capacity @ 80 PSI may be much heavier than the ST235/85R16E rated at 3640# @ 80 PSI. Come on, the LT is a mileage tire with much taller treads, compounds that are more dense than the ST needs. The list goes on. Strength is in the construction, not the add-ons.

Bottom line. Can an owner use whatever replacement that might be popular and get away with it. Sure, unless the trailer is registered in a state/Provence that has vehicle safety inspections that includes tire inspections. Is it legal? Speeding is not illegal until you get caught. A savvy litigator is going to know all about tire industry standards

 

[longhaul]

        The tire listed on the tire placard isn't a "approved " tire or only tire to be used.
      The tire placard is on the vehicle is per FMVSS 571 requirements. It requires the vehicle manufacturer to list his tire selection for that particular vehicle at the first retail sale but isn't regulatory  in nature when it come to replacement time for subsequent owners.

CFR 49 571.
  S10.3 The tires on each motor home and RV trailer at first retail sale must be the same size as the tire size on the label.

The only regulatory issue or legal issue is roadside enforcement...tires/wheels shall meet or exceed axle load ratings.

 

[COHauler]

I have this problem with my flatbed equipment 14K trailer. Nowhere I have looked can I find a LT tire that will support the maximum trailer ratings. I need a tire that has a rating of 3500+ lbs per tire.

To be honest though, I have never had an issue using a good radial ST tire, balance them (surprised how many people don't) and they have always served me well.

 

[FastEagle]

        The tire listed on the tire placard isn't a "approved " tire or only tire to be used.
      The tire placard is on the vehicle is per FMVSS 571 requirements. It requires the vehicle manufacturer to list his tire selection for that particular vehicle at the first retail sale but isn't regulatory  in nature when it come to replacement time for subsequent owners.

CFR 49 571.
  S10.3 The tires on each motor home and RV trailer at first retail sale must be the same size as the tire size on the label.

The only regulatory issue or legal issue is roadside enforcement...tires/wheels shall meet or exceed axle load ratings.

One cannot go out of context with NHTSA regulations. 571.120 also says the vehicle manufacturer must set cold recommended tire inflation pressures that are appropriate for that particular vehicle. Once that is done the tire may provide more load capacity than the axle rating. (See the catch 22 there)? I can reference numerous tire industry standards that will tell us to never use less cold tire inflation pressures than what is displayed on the certification label/tire placard.

You also need to tie-in certification, part 567. Tire placards are part of the vehicle certification process.

Precedent is set with 570.62 for vehicles 10000# and above. It is a valid NHTSA regulation.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

One cannot go out of context with NHTSA regulations. 571.120 also says the vehicle manufacturer must set cold recommended tire inflation pressures that are appropriate for that particular vehicle.

Sure, but there is nothing in NHTSA or anywhere else that says the OE tire is the ONLY acceptable one. Besides, regulation is  almost a non-issue with private vehicles once they get into the owners hands.  Civil suits (liability), however,could become a major concern if an accident occurs. If the vehicle has the same type & size tires as specified by the OEM, the owner has a prima facie case that the tires are "appropriate for the vehicle". However, once he elects to change the type or size, he could be asked to prove that his choice is still "appropriate".

 

[TonyDtorch]

it sounds like you are dreaming up things to worry about.

Our legal system is about money..  attorneys are money sharks....they will go after the biggest easiest money kill first. 
The insurance policy,  then the trailer manufacture,  then the tire manufacture,  then the tire shop,  they will be finished eating long before they ever get around to looking at you.

most times it's the speed/heat that kills trailer tires.  most LT and ST tires have a max speed rating of 65mph, and most people drive them at 65+,  the best thing you can do to prevent an accident in any RV is Slow down.

pick a proper load rated tire, drive safely, and have fun.

 

[freestoneangler]

My TT placard shows a GAWR, for both front and rear axles, of 3500 lbs.  The ST205/75R15 Power King tires show a max load rating of 1820 lbs.  So I have a whopping 140 lbs. of excess capacity.  PK does make a 'D' rated tire in this same size tire and rim (5.5 inch) that is rated at 2150 lbs. That increases my GAWR margin to 800 lbs... a little better.  To get an 'E' rated PK tire I'd have to change rims.

If you were going to switch these tires on this TT to an LT series, which ones would you choose?

 

[FastEagle]

Sure, but there is nothing in NHTSA or anywhere else that says the OE tire is the ONLY acceptable one. Besides, regulation is  almost a non-issue with private vehicles once they get into the owners hands.  Civil suits (liability), however,could become a major concern if an accident occurs. If the vehicle has the same type & size tires as specified by the OEM, the owner has a prima facie case that the tires are "appropriate for the vehicle". However, once he elects to change the type or size, he could be asked to prove that his choice is still "appropriate".

It is very difficult to explain tire regulations to anyone that has not done an in-depth study of them. They just cannot be taken out of context. They are linked. Sometimes the link is across 6-8 individually numbered regulations from the same category.

Of course NHTSA cannot say a tire fitment - by itself - is acceptable. They didn't build the vehicle. They just insure it's as safe as regulations can make it. Thus, vehicle certifications.

When a regulation's link is run from selection to fitment it becomes the standard fitment. There may be options but without them the only correct answer is from the vehicle manufacturer.

The process for RV trailers is muddy because there is no link between the vehicle manufacturer and the tire industry. For other highway vehicles the link is clear. Go to a retailer and look at the tire fitment recommendations for your vehicle and then pick a brand and design (M&S - Summer/Winter, Off road, etc. etc.). With RV trailers you have the vehicle owner's manual. It will tell you to use replacement tires just like the OEM/OE tires or list an optional size/design. It's a confusion factor that is not going to soon disappear.

In NHTSA regulations hypocrisy is avoided. When a precedent is set it is the go-to document for that information. I previously posted information from the "Vehicle in use" regulation. It is the go-to document for states with vehicle inspections. It is also the go-to document when any Federal or State DOT official has a need to inspect your vehicle.

Tire industry standards for replacement tires. Michelin does not build a 16" or smaller trailer tire.

MICHELIN:

?Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle.

?Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation ? or approved options ? as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

?The correct tire size designated for your vehicle should always be verified with the information in your vehicle owner?s manual in the glove compartment or on the tire information sticker on your driver?s side door.




 

 

[FastEagle]

My TT placard shows a GAWR, for both front and rear axles, of 3500 lbs.  The ST205/75R15 Power King tires show a max load rating of 1820 lbs.  So I have a whopping 140 lbs. of excess capacity.  PK does make a 'D' rated tire in this same size tire and rim (5.5 inch) that is rated at 2150 lbs. That increases my GAWR margin to 800 lbs... a little better.  To get an 'E' rated PK tire I'd have to change rims.

If you were going to switch these tires on this TT to an LT series, which ones would you choose?

None. There is no need. Just about every popular or unpopular ST brand build's that tire with a LRD load capacity of 2150# @ 65 PSI. But, are your current wheel assemblies capable of supporting the increased inflation pressure of 65 PSI?

 

[freestoneangler]

None. There is no need. Just about every popular or unpopular ST brand build's that tire with a LRD load capacity of 2150# @ 65 PSI. But, are your current wheel assemblies capable of supporting the increased inflation pressure of 65 PSI?

Don't know.  They are the upgrade aluminum rims, but I cannot find any label or stamped info on them as to maximum psi.  I'll need to contact StarCraft and see what they say.  So when you say "popular ST brands" which one of those would you choose?

 

[longhaul]

 

I have this problem with my flatbed equipment 14K trailer. Nowhere I have looked can I find a LT tire that will support the maximum trailer ratings. I need a tire that has a rating of 3500+ lbs per tire.

To be honest though, I have never had an issue using a good radial ST tire, balance them (surprised how many people don't) and they have always served me well.

Goodyear commercial grade all steel G614 RST LT235/85-16 G load range  3750 lb capacity and about the same diameter as a ST235/80-16. Goodyear markets them toward the regional service trailer industry.

The all steel commercial grade Hercules H-901 LT235/85-16 G load at 3750 lbs capacity. I have this tire on a 14k tandem and a 21k triaxle GN  trailers.

The ST205/75R15 Power King tires show a max load rating of 1820 lbs.  So I have a whopping 140 lbs. of excess capacity.

Two 3500 lb axles = 7000 lbs
Four 1820 lb capacity tires = 7280 lbs.
  If the 3500 lb axles are OEM then a 2000 lb per tire would give you a good reserve.

Depending on room in the wheel well and proper wheel pressure/wheel width requirements the Goodyear Wrangler HT in a LT235/75-15 C (50 psi) at 1980 lb capacity. Most LT tire makers carry this size.
    And a Wrangler HT in a LT215/75-15 D (65 psi) at 2090 lbs capacity.

Maxxis LT U-168 are a commercial grade tire with several 15" sizes and have became popular with all types of trailer owners.

Vanco 2 from Continental another popular tire for trailer users has several 15" sizes and load capacities.

I see the Yokohama RY215 in a 700R 15 D at 2040 lbs capacity is popular on some of the other RV websites.

Goodyear Cargo G26 2249 lb capacity in a 225/70R 15 C 65 psi  load range D for trucks/vans and trailers.

Do your home work on  all the numbers.

Some 15" aluminum wheels pressure are good to 80 psi and dictated by the stems pressure ie; ...High pressure rubber good to 100 psi.
Std rubber stems to 60 psi.
Best to always check with the wheel make or distributer. Some wheels pressure stickers are in the wheels valley  which means taking the tire off.

 

[COHauler]

    Goodyear commercial grade all steel G614 RST LT235/85-16 G load range  3750 lb capacity and about the same diameter as a ST235/80-16. Goodyear markets them toward the regional service trailer industry.

The all steel commercial grade Hercules H-901 LT235/85-16 G load at 3750 lbs capacity. I have this tire on a 14k tandem and a 21k triaxle GN  trailers.
Two 3500 lb axles = 7000 lbs
Four 1820 lb capacity tires = 7280 lbs.
  If the 3500 lb axles are OEM then a 2000 lb per tire would give you a good reserve.

Depending on room in the wheel well and proper wheel pressure/wheel width requirements the Goodyear Wrangler HT in a LT235/75-15 C (50 psi) at 1980 lb capacity. Most LT tire makers carry this size.
    And a Wrangler HT in a LT215/75-15 D (65 psi) at 2090 lbs capacity.

Maxxis LT U-168 are a commercial grade tire with several 15" sizes and have became popular with all types of trailer owners.

Vanco 2 from Continental another popular tire for trailer users has several 15" sizes and load capacities.

I see the Yokohama RY215 in a 700R 15 D at 2040 lbs capacity is popular on some of the other RV websites.

Goodyear Cargo G26 2249 lb capacity in a 225/70R 15 C 65 psi  load range D for trucks/vans and trailers.

Do your home work on  all the numbers.

Some 15" aluminum wheels pressure are good to 80 psi and dictated by the stems pressure ie; ...High pressure rubber good to 100 psi.
Std rubber stems to 60 psi.
Best to always check with the wheel make or distributer. Some wheels pressure stickers are in the wheels valley  which means taking the tire off.

I have seen the G Rated Ribbs and have a few friends running them. Good suggestion if your current wheels can be used. At 1200.00 for a set, it would be more tempting to move into a 17.5 wheel/tire combo. Cheaper, better rating, and last. Replacement tires are 200.00 each. Not a bad option either way.

I haven't had an issue with ST tires now since I had some bias ply factory craptastic load range C  that all blew out one at a time within the first 8k miles. Now I run only LR E ST tires and haven't had any issues since 2001. Only problems where self induced by being close to gross trailer rating and making sharp turns on pavement. This is where 17.5 wheel/tire sets shine.

Good topic.