Lets talk solar panels

[1930]

This is all new too me. Ive been under the impression that solar panels arent worth the investment cause the system simply dosent last long enough to justify the initial cost.

I just googled HOW LONG DO SOLAR PANELS LAST IN FLORIDA  and came up with this : Solar panels typically last between 20 to 30 years with many producing energy beyond that timespan. Lavrova notes that many systems installed as early as the 1970s are still producing power, albeit a little less than when they were brand new.

Ok so assuming this is correct than Ill guess its the batteries that make the systems seem less attractive to consumers?

Id like to know who here has solar panels, general usage so we can understand what you are able to do with them, approx cost and some specifics so that they can be purchased.

Im talking about average Joe solar panels, not a system that cost multiple thousands of dollars

Thanks

 

[1930]

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4qcoEXYqK0 is an excellent video

 

[JDOnTheGo]

As you have found, there are all kinds of inaccurate rumors when it comes to solar.

Solar absolutely works. I have lived on solar power for nearly five years and spend most of my time boondocking (no hookups). I didn't even own a generator until recently.

The first thing I would do - in terms of concept/thinking - is separate the solar charging system from the battery bank.  A typical RV that spends any time away from a full hookup site has/needs a battery bank.  The solar system is just an alternate means of charging that system.

You've mentioned cost.  Only you can decide if solar is worth it for your style of use. Solar equipment is NOT expensive. A general rule of thumb is $1/watt for the panels. Then you need a charge controller, some cables, and some mounting. Often the expense you hear about is from those that pay someone for the labor.  I wrote this post about my last coach with some facts about my system and my opinion regarding it's payback.  The solar charging system on my current all electric coach is a bigger system and the payback is even better - for me and my lifestyle. Links with specifics are in my signature. 

I don't think you can define an 'average Joe solar panels' system.  They are all very different.  This is one of the negatives. People generally don't want to learn what is needed to design/construct a solar charging system that will meet their needs. Sure, you can just slap a panel or two on your RV and be happy with it but that is certainly not ideal. Of course, some pay an installer to tell them what they need (and install it). I've seen that go terribly wrong more often than it goes right. That said, there are some good installers out there.

Obviously, not everyone needs/wants to live entirely on solar - or lives in an area were that is possible. In that case, solar is a huge asset in properly caring for your batteries.  Most folks don't want to understand how their batteries work or what kind of care they need but that is the only way to get good life out of them.  Once a person understands that a generator, with limited runs (in the morning/evening) is NOT fully charging their battery bank and that this is a negative for their lifespan, the benefit of some amount of solar charging to complete the charge becomes obvious.

Finally, this is one of those topics that has lots of different opinions and often becomes heated. I'm not sure why when solar works so well, is silent, doesn't smell, requires nearly zero maintenance, and costs nothing after the initial purchase.

 

[1930]

As you have found, there are kinds of inaccurate rumors when it comes to solar.

Solar absolutely works. I spent most of my time boondocking (no hookups) and have lived on solar power for nearly five years. I didn't even own a generator until recently.

The first thing I would do - in terms of concept/thinking - is separate the solar charging system from the battery bank.  A typical RV that spends any time away from a full hookup site has/needs a battery bank.  The solar system is just an alternate means of charging that system.

You've mentioned cost.  Only you can decide if solar is worth it for your style of use. Solar equipment is NOT expensive. A general rule of thumb is $1/watt for the panels. Then you need a charge controller, some cables, and some mounting. Often the expense you hear about is from those that pay someone for the labor.  I wrote this post about my last coach with some facts about my system and my opinion regarding it's payback.  The solar charging system on my current all electric coach is a bigger system and the payback is even better - for me and my lifestyle. Links with specifics are in my signature. 

I don't think you can define an 'average Joe solar panels' system.  They are all very different.  This is one of the negatives. People generally don't want to learn what is needed to design/construct a solar charging system that will meet their needs. Sure, you can just slap a panel or two on your RV and be happy with it but that is certainly not ideal. Of course, some pay an installer to tell them what they need (and install it). I've seen that go terribly wrong more often than it goes right. That said, there are some good installers out there.

Obviously, not everyone needs/wants to live entirely on solar - or lives in an area were that is possible. In that case, solar is a huge asset in properly caring for your batteries.  Most folks don't want to understand how their batteries work or what kind of care they need but that is the only way to get good life out of them.  Once a person understands that a generator, with limited runs (in the morning/evening) is NOT fully charging their battery bank and that this is a negative for their lifespan, the benefit of some amount of solar charging to complete the charge becomes obvious.

Finally, this is one of those topics that has lots of different opinions and often becomes heated. I'm not sure why when solar works so well, is silent, doesn't smell, requires nearly zero maintenance, and costs nothing after the initial purchase.

If this is the only reply to this thread than I am SATISFIED.

I am gonna check out the link you gave.

4 words for you

You are the man  )

 

[Kevin Means]

RV solar is not a one-size-fits-all thing, and that (understandably) confuses people. For all practical purposes, RV solar is just an alternate means of recharging your batteries, like JDOnTheGo said, but there are several other variables that will affect the usefullness of RV solar, so it really should be looked at on a case by case basis. What works well for one RVer, may not work well for another, even in the same RV.

Other things to consider, for example, are your location, and the time of year. In the winter months, for example, a 400 watt array in Seattle won't recharge your batteries anywhere near as efficiently as the same array in Phoenix - even on cloudless days. During the summer months, they'll both charge more equally, because the sun is almost directly overhead, but in the winter, the sun is much lower on the horizon in Seattle. It could take five times the number of panels to achieve the same charge in the same time period. Tilting rooftop mounted panels toward the sun would help a lot, but that can be problematic for RVers.

In my experience, RVers tend to rely more on solar during the winter (cooler) months, because when it starts getting hot, we want to run our AC to stay cool. That means we're either going to have to plug into shore-power, or run our generator. When we do that, our batteries recharge via our converter, so solar isn't relied upon as much.

We've had solar on our RVs for the last 20 years, and I wouldn't be without it, but most of our camping is boondocking in the Arizona and So Cal deserts, so solar works well for us. If we were going to be plugged in most of the time, I doubt I would have installed as big an array. We've got a fairly large battery bank to go along with a fairly large solar array, but our coach has a large residential fridge, so it's a pretty power hungry RV.

There are some things to think about before making the leap to solar, because it can get expensive, but it doesn't have to break the bank. It's not for everyone, but if you boondock a lot and your system is designed and installed well, it's great. It beats the heck out of listening to your generator droning away several hours a day.

Kev

 

[Isaac-1]

I too have solar on my RV, as well as some other related experience using it on a sailboat, and other small off grid applications.  In my case the solar on my motorhome was installed by the previous owner, and is not exactly what I would have done, but is close enough that I don't feel a need to change it.

As mentioned above one size does not fit all, though some solar beats no solar.  As a general rule of thumb I would say 250 watts of solar panels is the bare minimum one should consider for use on an RV that gets weekend only use and has enough battery capacity to last most of the weekend with moderate use (2 deep cycle batteries).  Most weeks these will generate enough power to recharge the batteries for the following weekends use.  Within certain limits more is better, though at some point you will want to get a larger battery bank so as to stay within the batteries charge acceptance rate.  With a 2 deep cycle battery setup, I would tend to say you would want 300-400 watts worth of solar panels, with a 4 deep cycle battery setup that can go up to 800 watts of panels.  This assumes you have the RV in a location that gets good sunlight and is not shaded during the middle of the day.  In the southern US you can expect to average about the equivalent of 5 hours of rated  solar output per day on average (more in the summer, less in the winter), in other words you can expect to get 500 watt hours out of a 100 watt panel per day.

The problem with solar is that it is not always reliable, so it is good to have a generator backup for those weeks where you never see the sun.  As to cost counting panels, solar controllers, wiring, mounting brackets, etc. expect your cost to be around $1.50 - $1.75 per watt of panel installed not counting the batteries, maybe a little higher with the new import tariffs.

 

[solarman]

This is all new too me. Ive been under the impression that solar panels arent worth the investment cause the system simply dosent last long enough to justify the initial cost.

I just googled HOW LONG DO SOLAR PANELS LAST IN FLORIDA  and came up with this : Solar panels typically last between 20 to 30 years with many producing energy beyond that timespan. Lavrova notes that many systems installed as early as the 1970s are still producing power, albeit a little less than when they were brand new.

Ok so assuming this is correct than Ill guess its the batteries that make the systems seem less attractive to consumers?

Id like to know who here has solar panels, general usage so we can understand what you are able to do with them, approx cost and some specifics so that they can be purchased.

Im talking about average Joe solar panels, not a system that cost multiple thousands of dollars

Thanks

I would say that solar panel lifespan is not really an issue for an RV'er, for residential use then yes, it becomes a factor.
payback for residential grid tie systems could be as soon as 3 to 4 years or as much as 10 to 12 years depending on location.
for the RV'er and off grid user, there is no payback as the cost of batteries nullifies any apparent gain from the panels.
batteries have a limited lifespan and therefore need replacing at cost.

unlike off grid applications, space becomes the limiting factor for an RV and therefore limits the size of a solar array.
certainly for smaller RV's, this could be in the 300 to 1000 watt range. there are exceptions to this of course and some
members here have in excess of 1000 Watts.

Usage:

well many, there are some who use solar as a battery maintainer
there are those that have solar just for bragging show and tell rights
there are those who use solar as a primary power source for boon docking
and probably many more reasons..

the number one is probably boon docking. it is possible if you have a small enough power use to
exist for a long time on solar, but due to weather or other exceptions will eventually fire up the generator !

I have solar on both my rv's, my wife and i prefer boon docking and can spend quite some time
on solar alone, however there are times due to location and inclement weather conditions we have
had to fire up the generator.

average Joe panels..

well average Joe is in for a surprise when budgeting for solar.
solar is not cheap, period.

let's budget for a simple 300 watt system
panels: $1.00 per watt so $300
MPPT controller: $100
batteries: two golf cart 6v 225 Ah @ $90 each

total excluding cables and panel fixtures is approx: $580

my question to you would be "why do you think you need solar" ?







moderator, should this thread be better served moving to the solar location ?

 

[1930]

I appreciate the information/replies, Im not sure that I need solar yet, but when I do Id like to make an educated decision on what might suit me best rather than ordering a one size fits some kit.

I dodnt know there was a solar subsection. Ill have to find that. Thanks

 

[Larry N.]

moderator, should this thread be better served moving to the solar location ?

Where is that? I just looked, and I can't find such a thing, which is probably why I didn't remember seeing one.

 

[solarman]

Where is that? I just looked, and I can't find such a thing, which is probably why I didn't remember seeing one.

here... http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/board,99.0.html

it's a child of tech talk

 

[Larry N.]

Ahhh, I forgot about child boards. Thanks.

 

[Dragginourbedaround]

We have a 100 watt suitcase that we use when boon docking or dry camping. It has cut my generator use at least by half. We have two G31 batteries so when we're able to get back on the road I will add another 100 watts. Right now it is inside my coach sitting on my dash and charging my batteries while in storage. Last check they were 13.3v.