herekittykitty
Well-known member
Assuming the reason for buying a light/ultra light TT or 5th wheel is for fuel savings and perhaps being able to use a lighter tow vehicle, are there good reasons for NOT buying one?
Light/Ultra Light, or not?
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driftless shifter
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I can't give a definitive answer. My career as a commercial driver and lifelong hobby playing with anything powered by infernal confustion, have taught me that lite and ultra lite usually mean less durability. Due diligence and research will reveal the quality built brands, which may or may not be the lightest in weight. If you plan to drycamp off remote roads and trails I would want one stout enough to withstand the flex/twist of that type of use. If your main use will be CG to CG, using paved roads/highways it may not matter as much. I've seen at least one recent topic on here, of frame problems, with a 5'r, after an Alaskan trip. That's a kinda rough ride, in long stretch's, from what I understand. There are people on here that know 5'rs very well. They'll be along with better answers than mine.
Bill
Bill
driftless shifter
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I left a sentence or 2 out.
It depend on how far they cut to achieve weight loss. An aluminum frame, built with proper alloy and thickness can be lighter and better than steel. One built with less expensive alloy and/or thinner gauge, not so much.
It depend on how far they cut to achieve weight loss. An aluminum frame, built with proper alloy and thickness can be lighter and better than steel. One built with less expensive alloy and/or thinner gauge, not so much.
JiminDenver
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We have a Amerilite Ultra lite 25 ft trailer. Most of the weight and cost saving things are right up front. The rig is narrower by 6 inches and shorter too. The cabinets have OSB but the doors are solid. The sinks, tub and toilet are plastic. The windows are single pane, the propane tanks are only 20 pounders, a single door fridge. There are things that you can't see too but the frame and flooring isn't one of them. The frame is the same as their other models and the floor is 5/8 wood, not foam core like in some other light weights. The tanks are not inclosed or heated and are only 30 gal each.
Of the things that are different, most have no impact on our camping experience. The plastic sinks hold water, the toilet hasn't given out under my 230 lbs, the cabinets haven't buckled and being a bit narrower and shorter means that we can make it down those tight trails with low branches better than a bigger rig. The one thing I'd like is bigger tanks.
No matter what they call a trailer, do your research and make sure it will meet your needs inside and out.
Of the things that are different, most have no impact on our camping experience. The plastic sinks hold water, the toilet hasn't given out under my 230 lbs, the cabinets haven't buckled and being a bit narrower and shorter means that we can make it down those tight trails with low branches better than a bigger rig. The one thing I'd like is bigger tanks.
No matter what they call a trailer, do your research and make sure it will meet your needs inside and out.
Lou Schneider
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By far the largest factor in fuel mileage is the frontal area of the trailer. That's why the lightweights are narrower, to reduce the cross-area they have to carve through the air.
If you're seriously concerned about fuel costs, consider one of the expandable/collapsible trailers made by Trailmanor. Or a used Hi-Lo. Not only are they lightweight, but since they fold down to a profile that drafts behind the tow vehicle, they tow quite economically.
If you're seriously concerned about fuel costs, consider one of the expandable/collapsible trailers made by Trailmanor. Or a used Hi-Lo. Not only are they lightweight, but since they fold down to a profile that drafts behind the tow vehicle, they tow quite economically.
We have a 2005 Forrest River Cherokee Light. It is as wide and long as other 28 footers not in the "light" class. We have been very satisfied with out TT but we don't full time in it. It gets used 3-4 times a year for 4-7 days at a time. It has held up well for us. It weighs 6300 lbs loaded as we travel. That makes it well within the capabilites of our 1/2 ton tow rating. I think the reason for a "light" weight trailer has more to do with the tow vehicles capability than with fuel milage.
T
Trailer traveler
Guest
Many light weight trailers do not have much cargo carrying capacity. This can result in overloading which then causes tire and frame issues. Another thing to be aware of is that lightweight trailers are often equipped with OEM tires and axles that barely meet the requirements of the GVWR and often depend on proper pin/tongue weight to prevent overloading.
As mentioned by others, how and how much you use the trailer will affect how well it holds up.
As mentioned by others, how and how much you use the trailer will affect how well it holds up.
OP
OP
herekittykitty
Well-known member
Wow, thanks for all the info! You guys answered (what I didn't realize was) my underlying question: would you use one for full-timing?
After only a few responses the answer is a clear, resounding NO!
After only a few responses the answer is a clear, resounding NO!
Light weight trailers are light for a reason. Cheap thinner materials, less insulation, smaller holding tanks. If you want to live full time, and we are in the same area, you will want a trailer with the most insulation and room you can afford. Lady next to us is in a Montana fifth wheel. It has not moved in 12 years. Buy what you can afford and is large enough to be comfortable. If you don't have a truck I'm sure you can find someone or a dealer who will deliver and setup for you for a small additional fee. You can then always buy a truck later if you decide to travel.
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
Depends on what you use it for. We bought an "ultra lite" Palomino and absolutely love it. Of course, "lite" is relatively...it grosses near 8000 lbs and is 30' long, so it's getting into 3/4 truck territory to pull it. We use an older F250, and I'm looking at a new Cummins soon.
We use it 5-6 times a year for long weekends, or a week long vacation in the mountains. It's perfect for that. Not sure it would be ideal for full timing, but we bought it new and have had it almost 2 years. We take good care of stuff, and it's showing no signs of wear. No frame/axle/tire issues....yet anyway. Couldn't be happier with it.
YMMV, of course.
We use it 5-6 times a year for long weekends, or a week long vacation in the mountains. It's perfect for that. Not sure it would be ideal for full timing, but we bought it new and have had it almost 2 years. We take good care of stuff, and it's showing no signs of wear. No frame/axle/tire issues....yet anyway. Couldn't be happier with it.
YMMV, of course.
CounselorMike
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herekittykitty said:
We went from a Motorhome to a TravelTrailer - Coleman (CTU249RB) 28 ft Ultralight by Dutchman and are regretting it. We thought "Coleman" knows camping and therefore they would have a great RV. We were wrong. Not sure if it is because it is an ultralight or a Dutchman. We have had major problems out of it. We brought it a 9 weeks ago and it has had to have service 3 times. The Refrigerator went out in the first time out. Poor workman ship too! The floor of the Shower, I almost broke through the first time I used it and I"m only 180 lbs. Service told us it was missing a proper support structure. Paneling came off the first time out because of staples pulling out from the drive. Interior doors rubbing and scratching veneer finish. Screen door, plastic molding between tires and a few other items not installed correctly.
So, not sure if it is because it is an Ultralight or Coleman (Dutchman product) but it is a bad product which we are stuck with!!! We are having to take it back in to Dealer to get more work on it and only after 9 weeks, WOW!!!
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
"Coleman" doesn't actually build anything and hasn't for many years. The Coleman company just leases out the rights to use the Coleman name on a product, cause many people feel that "Coleman" represents quality in outdoor products. They make an effort to assure that the licensed product doesn't harm the Coleman brand reputation, but that's not the same as making sure it is the best possible product.
Dutchman generally builds for the low end market, so you mostly get what you pay for in terms of build quality and features. However, there is no excuse for defective components or dangerous construction. That's a basic requirement.
Dutchman generally builds for the low end market, so you mostly get what you pay for in terms of build quality and features. However, there is no excuse for defective components or dangerous construction. That's a basic requirement.
WFD
Well-known member
Sounds to me like Counselor Mike's issues have more to do with quality of workmanship than being an Ultralight....fridge issue has nothing to do with ultralight, neither does a missing floor support. Doors and the like not installed properly also not the fault of Ultra Light...sounds more like a knock on Dutchman than method of construction.
herekittykitty said:
http://www.cruiserrv.com/products/enterra
I have a Enterra 314RES from Cruiser RV... it is considered "Lightweight", 35' weighing in at 7700 with 3100 cargo carrying capacity. We will be temporary full-timers starting in December (about 8 months or so) and it will be plenty to fit our needs. I have no complaints about the quality and with three slides there is plenty of room.
I answer your question with another question... what would be your reason Not to buy a "light weight"?
OP
OP
herekittykitty
Well-known member
[quote author=FireBean]I answer your question with another question... what would be your reason Not to buy a "light weight"? [/quote]
If you go back to my initial post, you'll see that that was my question: IS there a reason not to buy an ultra lite?
Would certainly love to save both the fuel and gain the CCC, but was uncertain whether there was a reason to avoid an ultra-lite.
I've since found this brand. They market themselves--their importance--as the lightness of their products, but the way I found them was a forum thread discussing wood rot.
An all-aluminum trailer means no wood rot and no rust. Have no idea what they cost, but I'm not sure that for full-timing I'd like to live with an ALL-metal structure, and if the way most manufacturers make a product "lite" is by using substandard appliances and manufacturing techniques, then that's not suitable for living in every day.
If anyone full-times in an ultra-light trailer that they love, I'd be very interested to hear about it. How long have you had your Enterra? I will take a look at it.
If you go back to my initial post, you'll see that that was my question: IS there a reason not to buy an ultra lite?
Would certainly love to save both the fuel and gain the CCC, but was uncertain whether there was a reason to avoid an ultra-lite.
I've since found this brand. They market themselves--their importance--as the lightness of their products, but the way I found them was a forum thread discussing wood rot.
An all-aluminum trailer means no wood rot and no rust. Have no idea what they cost, but I'm not sure that for full-timing I'd like to live with an ALL-metal structure, and if the way most manufacturers make a product "lite" is by using substandard appliances and manufacturing techniques, then that's not suitable for living in every day.
If anyone full-times in an ultra-light trailer that they love, I'd be very interested to hear about it. How long have you had your Enterra? I will take a look at it.
COMer
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We spend about seven months per year in our Rockwood Ultra Light fifth-wheel. We have had no issues related to how the trailer was made. I don't think that "lite" has to mean that is is made with low quality. And I have heard of trailers sold as high end that have had major quality problems. I would look carefully at what you see and determine if the way it was built compromises anything that would be important to you. It may not.
yolo
Well-known member
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
However, they are not. Sturdy walls, strong chassis and high quality interiors result in as much or more weight than any other brand.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
First of all, "light" or "lite" in a RV name or description means almost nothing. Pure marketing hype in most cases. The RV in question may or may not be any lighter than its competitors that don't have the same word applied anywhere. Forget the name and read the specs.
Second, the only way to be lighter is to leave something out. Sometimes you can save weight by using a more expensive material, but if you want to be both light and inexpensive the path is to use thinner materials or less of them. One of the easiest places to reduce weight without reducing eye appeal is to make the chassis (frame) thinner and less rigid and use smaller tires & axles.
Third, a lighter RV doesn't necessarily save a lot on fuel. More weight primarily increases the rolling resistance of the tires, but that's not the main factor is RV fuel consumption. Air resistance of that big front end is by far the major fuel (power) consumer and for a given size of RV that is more-or-less the same regardless of how much it weighs.
Fourth, a lighter RV does not typically gain in CCC. It would do so only if the chassis, axles and tires remain super-sized while other components are reduced in weight. That seldom happens - it is typically the massive weight of the chassis and running gear that gets reduced first.
Second, the only way to be lighter is to leave something out. Sometimes you can save weight by using a more expensive material, but if you want to be both light and inexpensive the path is to use thinner materials or less of them. One of the easiest places to reduce weight without reducing eye appeal is to make the chassis (frame) thinner and less rigid and use smaller tires & axles.
Third, a lighter RV doesn't necessarily save a lot on fuel. More weight primarily increases the rolling resistance of the tires, but that's not the main factor is RV fuel consumption. Air resistance of that big front end is by far the major fuel (power) consumer and for a given size of RV that is more-or-less the same regardless of how much it weighs.
Fourth, a lighter RV does not typically gain in CCC. It would do so only if the chassis, axles and tires remain super-sized while other components are reduced in weight. That seldom happens - it is typically the massive weight of the chassis and running gear that gets reduced first.
OP
OP
herekittykitty
Well-known member
Thanks, Gary. REALLY good points.
