My GFCI won't reset

[MartyB]

I'm stumped guys....  For the second time.
The GFCI in my bathroom has blown and will not reset.  We plugged a heater in the outlet.  It worked for a while, then it tripped off.  It will now reset.
This is the second time.
The first time stumped me as well.  As my 5er was going into the shop for some other work.  I left it to them.  The fix, (for whatever reason) was to install another wire from the breaker panel to the GFCI.  And it worked.  Until now.  5 months.
I am not a completed noob, but I'm just not getting it.  There IS power going out of the breaker, but nothing is reaching the outlets.  I don't have a voltage probe for a few more days.  (Isolation)
I'm still working on it while we are in quarantine, but my hair is falling out.
Any ideas without seeing the set up?

 

[Heli_av8tor]

The GFI outlet could be the first on a string of outlets. If there are more downstream I would disconnect the feed to them coming out of the GFI. This eliminates the possibility of a fault downstream. If the GFI outlet still won't reset then it is faulty. If it resets then the problem if after it.

 

[SeilerBird]

Sounds like a defective GFI to me.

 

[MartyB]

And that is were the difficulty lies.  Last time I thought is was the GFCI.  It wasn't.
As far as a string involving the GFCI.  You are correct.  It is going to take me awhile to figure it out.  The wire doesn't go to the GFCI first.  It is going to a wall plug in the bedroom first.  I think.  THEN it goes to the GFCI.  Then it branches out from there.  At least 3 mlre outlets.  Maybe 4.
I'm gonna have to take the walls apart again to double check.

 

[sadixon49]

In general GFCIs fail in 1 of 2 ways. First, as you described, the heater took the circuit out and the gfci will not reset, this is the classic symptom of no power to the gfci. Are you sure that you have power to the gfci? Second, is the gfci tries to reset, but trips immediately. This is where you have to worry about downstream issues, the outside recepticles is a good place to start looking in this case. For my money I wouldn't do anything until I was sure, SURE, I had power to the gfci.

 

[jubileee]

For me, the bath gfi tripping was always moisture in the outside outlets. Took me years to figure it out. You probably don?t have to take the walls apart, just unhook power to the dead downstream outlets and hopefully find culprit.

 

[mel s]

I'm stumped guys....  For the second time.
The GFCI in my bathroom has blown and will not reset.  We plugged a heater in the outlet.  It worked for a while, then it tripped off.  It will now reset.
This is the second time.
The first time stumped me as well.  As my 5er was going into the shop for some other work.  I left it to them.  The fix, (for whatever reason) was to install another wire from the breaker panel to the GFCI.  And it worked.  Until now.  5 months.
I am not a completed noob, but I'm just not getting it.  There IS power going out of the breaker, but nothing is reaching the outlets.  I don't have a voltage probe for a few more days.  (Isolation)
I'm still working on it while we are in quarantine, but my hair is falling out.
Any ideas without seeing the set up?

MartyB
"There IS power going out of the breaker, but nothing is reaching the outlets" sounds like an output breaker on your inverter/charger may be TRIPPED.

(On many/most? RVs the "incoming shore power" passes through those "inverter breakers" on it's way to the receptacles in the RV).

 

[Heli_av8tor]

The tests I described requires only removing the GFI outlet.

 

[MartyB]

Thanks for your thoughts gang.  I need a voltage probe in order to proceed.  I am in quarantine for another week and have no way to get one.
I took the walls apart yesterday because the dealer who did the work last time indicated on the work order  that was done.  It actually wasn't difficult to see what they did and replicate.
My bad was I didn't take pictures of what I saw.  I have put it back for the  time being since I don't have the probe to follow the current.  I can say I remember power going to the GFCI was not the first place it went.

Mel,  I don't understand what you are saying.  Are you saying there is another breaker I don't know about?

 

[John From Detroit]

There are 3 reasons why a GFCI will not reset and at least two of them "Feel Different"

Reason #1: Ground fault down-stream  Many GFCI outlets power not only that which is plugged into the front but additional "Down line" or "Down stream" outlets. For example the GFCI in mu half bath powers the outlets in the main bath, kitchen, Dining table and patio.  The problem could be Downline, IN this case it does reset, but insta-trips  This sounds different than a "Won't reset"

NO POWER to outlet. NOTE since you plugged a heater in this is a PRIME SUSPECT.. to test you need test gear (either a 120 volt test light or a voltmeter) pull the GFCI and check it  NOTE USE CAUTION dangerous voltages present.

Heaters pull around 12-13 amps amps normally, the wireing in RV's may not be up to that. HOWEVER usually the supply side of the GFCI can take 15 amps no sweat..  Still sometimes the Romex to GFCI connection may be a bit... less than Ideal.. Mine is a wirenut twisted lead connection. not my favorite.

Finally we have a defective GFCI..... Rare but it happens.

 

[sadixon49]

There are 3 reasons why a GFCI will not reset and at least two of them "Feel Different"

Reason #1: Ground fault down-stream  Many GFCI outlets power not only that which is plugged into the front but additional "Down line" or "Down stream" outlets. For example the GFCI in mu half bath powers the outlets in the main bath, kitchen, Dining table and patio.  The problem could be Downline, IN this case it does reset, but insta-trips  This sounds different than a "Won't reset"

NO POWER to outlet. NOTE since you plugged a heater in this is a PRIME SUSPECT.. to test you need test gear (either a 120 volt test light or a voltmeter) pull the GFCI and check it  NOTE USE CAUTION dangerous voltages present.

Heaters pull around 12-13 amps amps normally, the wireing in RV's may not be up to that. HOWEVER usually the supply side of the GFCI can take 15 amps no sweat..  Still sometimes the Romex to GFCI connection may be a bit... less than Ideal.. Mine is a wirenut twisted lead connection. not my favorite.

Finally we have a defective GFCI..... Rare but it happens.

John, I tried to say the same thing, but you can turn a phrase much better than I, and of course, I forgot that, yes, the gfci itself could be bad.

Just a note about GFCIs, invented in the early 70s, they are, or were, extremely sensitive to lightning strikes anywhere on the line feeding them. That's why they come with the test button. You do test them every month don't you? Early GFCIs often failed on, and you would not know they were not working, if you didn't test them. Home inspectors in high lightning strike areas would often report 75 to 80% failures, when tested.  In the late 90s, early 2000s, UL began requiring that GFCIs fail off.  The newest GFCIs have a self test feature. This leads us back to the OPs problem , yes, it could be as simple as a bad GFCI.

 

[mel s]

Mel,  I don't understand what you are saying.  Are you saying there is another breaker I don't know about?

Marty B
Some inverter/chargers have one, (or more), 120V output breakers ON, (or IN), the inverter itself.

 

[MartyB]

OK, thanks Mel.  I've had the breaker / converter box out.  There is nothing that I don't recognize on or  near the box.
I know I jumped the gun by posting this problem without being able to test everything at once.  I'm checking my park for someone with some electrical tools.
Once again.  There is power leaving the breaker.  When I get a probe, I will follow the wire.
I'll post a picture of the back of the GFCI.  ALL the wires that you see are dead.  The thing is.  Where I thought the wire goes to first, is dead too.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The GFCI won't reset if it has no incoming (line) power, so your first task is to find out why those wires are dead.  But since you say you don't have a "voltage probe", how do you know they are all dead?

 

[cic317]

IF you believe there is no power coming into GFI, double check your circuit breakers. Sometimes they trip but don't appear to be on a quick look. Physical turn off and back on to reset breaker. Then try to reset GFI. If no good, when you get a meter check for power incoming, The back of GFI should be labeled Line-power in and Load- power out to additional protected outlets down the line. If the GFI will not reset, disconnect wire on Load side then try again. If it resets then your problem is down the line. You have to trace wire to the devices down the line and inspect each 1 until you find the problem.

 

[MartyB]

The GFCI won't reset if it has no incoming (line) power, so your first task is to find out why those wires are dead.  But since you say you don't have a "voltage probe", how do you know they are all dead

 

[MartyB]

I have a multi meter.  With less than basic knowledge.
When I touch the meter to the wires I get really low numbers.  Not zero, but just weird / nonsensical.  That  gives me the courage to touch them.  They are not working.

 

[lynnmor]

You said that the GFCI outlet is not the first in line from the breaker.  Find the first and pull it out to see if there is a wiring fault.  Perhaps a push-in wire popped loose.  Since you are getting some voltage, it does appear that you have a very poor connection.

 

[John From Detroit]

Ok on teh single wire end you say the black/white pair is DEAD (the LINE end near the bare wires?)

IF so that's the problem that should be HOT... either there is another breaker in the line or there is a junction box in the line or there is another outlet before teh GFCI (this is not  proper but it may happen)

Check all outlets and do a "Works/don't work" map
Now turn OF the breaker and re-map  IF there is a diffeence check that outlet

ALso are you 100% sure you are testing the proper breaker?

IN MY RV: the Inverter was added after market so the inverter's breakers.. are in a different box. (Often in the inverter itself. but in some cases it's a different box)  This is one of the inverter circuits.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I have a multi meter.  With less than basic knowledge.
When I touch the meter to the wires I get really low numbers.  Not zero, but just weird / nonsensical.  That  gives me the courage to touch them.  They are not working.

A multimeter is all you need for this problem.  It should be set for AC voltage (200V or less) and the measurement probes go between the black wire and white wire on the Line terminals.  If the reading is not at least 100 volts, you know there is a problem with the power source and need to check again further upstream (closer to the breaker). Keep checking until you find where the power is lost.  At the breaker, measure between the black wire on the breaker and the buss bar where all the white wires are connected.


There are some good basic multimeter (VOM) tutorials online - here are a couple:
https://randomnerdtutorials.com/how-to-use-a-multimeter/https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Use-a-Multimeter-Basics/