New 5th wheeler looking for some advice (Short Box, weight ratings, etc.)

[VanDrunken]

Last year, my wife and I bought our first RV and we love it. It is a Jayco 19H, and it's dry weight is 3600 lbs. We tow this trailer with a Mercedes-Benz ML500 (V8 SUV) that is rated at a towing capacity of 5500 lbs. Since this is the first rig I have ever towed I wanted to make sure it was something I could easily handle and learn at the same time. Needless to say, the first time i backed it up was interesting. I have since learned a lot and can back this puppy up with my eyes closed.

When I bought the trailer, I was fortunate enough to buy a hitch, weight dist, and sway bar that was basically used only once at a good price. The weakest point on the hitch was rated at 14,000 lbs. and was WAY overkill but I figured that I may be towing something bigger down the road and the price was right. The ML500 tows this trailer like it isn't even there. I can make it up steep inclines (10-14 degrees) and still maintain a 90km/hr speed, not that I do that all the time but it is possible.

So, since my wife and I love RVing so much, we were talking about upgrading our trailer, which got us talking about the life expectancy of the ML which is a 2002, which got us looking at a new tow vehicle. Long story short, I am planning on getting a new truck next summer, and a new 5th wheel the following spring.

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Tow Vehicle
---------------
Ford F-150 Platinum
4x4
SuperCrew
5.5' Box
Max Tow Package (Increases towing rating to 11,300 lbs.)

---------------
5th Wheel
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Jayco 31.5RLDS - http://www.jayco.com/php/products/floorplans.php?id=207&mod_id=1148
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs.) 8,900
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs.) 2,120
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs.) 11,400
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs.) 2,500

Since this is my first 5th wheel, I have many questions:

1. Jayco offers the Reese Revolution hitch for use with short boxes. Does anyone here have one and what are your thoughts? Also, what is your experience with towing with a short box? Why might I consider getting 6.5" box over the 5.5'?

2. Towing capacity of the truck is 11,300, trailer weighs 8,900 dry. When towing, trailer tanks will be empty and it is only myself and my wife (for now). Do you feel I have allowed myself enough headroom to carry my cargo, and still have a safe amount of power to tow this trailer?

3. What about tongue weight of the trailer? How do I know if the trailer will be too heavy for the truck? This one has me a bit confused.

4.  Any other suggestions that you think a new-to-5th-wheeling camper might want to consider?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Jammer]

I believe that, if purchasing a new TV, you'll find that you want a 8' box if you're going to tow a 5er.  Some of the other 5er owners can comment but the sliding hitches are not widely loved and adored.  They're more something you might use if you already had a short box TV and didn't want to sell it.

You have to watch the rear axle loading and may find that you're over.

Detroit has increased the towing capacity of their trucks in recent years without actually making the trucks any stronger.

I would get an F-250.

 

[VanDrunken]

As for the long box vs. short box, here is a video of the Reese Revolution hitch. http://www.goevergreenrv.com/page/107/Reese-Revolution-5th-Wheel-Hitch
With this hitch there is no need for a sliding pin box.

You have to watch the rear axle loading and may find that you're over.

This is what I wasn't sure how to verify.  What weights should I be comparing when taking axel weight into account?

 

[BruceinFL]

F-150 is not enough truck to tow that fifth wheel.

 

[Brother Bear]

I agree with ohers. I think you'd be better off with an F-250 or a smaller 5er.

 

[Joezeppy]

I agree with all the "bigger truck or smaller 5er" comments. You don't want to be right at the limits.  And, you will probably find that Ford states that the 5.5' box is not meant for 5th wheel towing.

The maximum "pin weight" as it's called for 5th wheel towing should be in the Ford literature for each of the various cab/box/wheelbase configurations. However, based on the above, I'm thinking it will not be listed for the F150 Super Crew).

 

[VanDrunken]

Well, in that case I will start looking for a smaller 5er.

Detroit has increased the towing capacity of their trucks in recent years without actually making the trucks any stronger.

Now, I did read that Ford has improved the way they make their frames. Could this be the reason for the increase in lbs. for towing?

The maximum "pin weight" as it's called for 5th wheel towing should be in the Ford literature for each of the various cab/box/wheelbase configurations. However, based on the above, I'm thinking it will not be listed for the F150 Super Crew).

Interesting. I am going to take a look and see what i can find.

EDIT: I have the F-150 brochure. Here is a footnote below the Towing Specs for their different truck configurations.

Conventional Towing Notes: Maximum loaded trailer weights shown. Trailer tongue load weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. The addition of trailer tongue load weight, and the weight of passengers and cargo, cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR )Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.
Note: See RV and Trailer Towing Guide for requirements, restrictions and 5th-wheel towing.

Here are the numbers for the truck I have built.

5.4L V8 4x4 SuperCrew with 3.73 Axle Ratio
GCWR Range: 16,700 - 17,100
145-in. (5.5') wheelbase: 11,200 lbs.
157-in. (6.5') wheelbase: 11,100 lbs.

 

[edjunior]

As for the long box vs. short box, here is a video of the Reese Revolution hitch. http://www.goevergreenrv.com/page/107/Reese-Revolution-5th-Wheel-Hitch
With this hitch there is no need for a sliding pin box.
This is what I wasn't sure how to verify.  What weights should I be comparing when taking axel weight into account?

Well, on that page, it states in the opening paragraph "Beds can be as short as 6 feet when used with specific Reese 5th wheel hitch applications."  So with a 5.5ft bed, you are too small. 

A pin weight of 2,120 pounds.  On the back of an F-150!  No way.

GVWR of the 5th wheel 11,400...you are already over the GVWR of the truck.

You really need to be more realistic.  That is way too much trailer for an F-150.  What you have listed there is almost exactly what I have (I have a 30ft Forest River Wildcat).  I pulled mine home with my 5.4L F-250, and it did okay (granted, mine was older) at best.  However, with that one experience of pulling it home, I started looking for a more capable truck.  I now have a diesel to do the job.  It pulls waaaay better, I feel better, and it's the right truck for the job.

Now, if you insist on staying with the F-150, and if you insist on staying with a 5th wheel, get the 6.6ft bed.  I don't even know why they ever started making those 5.5ft beds.  They are the most useless things.  Anyway, many new 5th wheel manufacturers are making the front caps more "short bed friendly".  But that does not extend to the 5.5ft beds.  Believe me, when you get in that truck and see the hulking wall of the 5th wheel behind you, it is unnerving to say the least.  Even now in my 8' bed, it's a little intimidating.

If you want to pull a 5th wheel, like the others, I strongly recommend at least an F-250 (or 3/4 ton truck).  They were made to do that job.  The 1/2 tons were not.

 

[edjunior]

Dang!  I just looked at the link for that Jayco.  That thing is 34'7".  Please Mr. VanDrunken.  Do not even consider this.  There is no way, no how, you should even be considering an F-150 for that.  No Way!

 

[joelmyer]

Get a bigger truck.

With a 5th wheel, the truck ccc is almost always exceeded before the gcwr.

ccc is the max gross of the truck minus the real weight of the truck before hooking up.  The real weight you really won't know until you put it on a scale.  Curb weight is the dry truck, 1/2 tank of fuel and a 150 lb driver.  You have to add an allowance for the driver real weigh, the passenger, hitch, bed liner, tool box, stuff, and any accessories not in the curb weight.

The 2020 "dry hitch weight" is a mythical number and probably is for a bare bones trailer.  A more realistic number is probably 25% of the trailer max gross.

So take the truck max gross, subtract the curb weight and then subtract a thousand pounds for all the stuff not in the curb weight - that's a good guess at your real ccc.  Take 25% of the trailer max gross - that's a good guess at your real pin weigh.  Compare.

Get a bigger truck.

Joel

 

[Carl L]

2. Towing capacity of the truck is 11,300, trailer weighs 8,900 dry. When towing, trailer tanks will be empty and it is only myself and my wife (for now). Do you feel I have allowed myself enough headroom to carry my cargo, and still have a safe amount of power to tow this trailer?

No way will that trailer be empty after the first day you tow it home.  You will fill it with:  propane, pots and pans, dishes, bedding, towels, food, soft drinks/beer, clothing, books, CDs, computers, tool kits, plates, utensils, barbecue, extra batteries, ground mats, sewerage gear, hoses, outdoor furniture, awing, jack pads and leveling blocks, etc, etc.  Moreover you will travel with at least a half tank of water so you can use your own plumbing en route -- you might not need to, but I guarantee your wife will want to.  Moreover if you arrive at camp and it is raining pitchforks, it nice not to have to stand outside the cold and wet rigging up pressure regulators and hoses.  I travel with a full water tank. 

Unladen weight is useless in evaluating towability of a trailer it is not an actual weight as load for travel.  Use gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) which is unladen weight + carrying capacity.  It is not an actual weight either, but it is a real number and is a good, conservative number to use for a trailer you cannot weigh.

Truck tow ratings are based on a truck with a 154lb driver and fuel and fluids.  Passengers, hitches, and other truck cargo needs to accounted for.  Discount the truck rating 10% to allow for that.  If the truck engine is not a diesel and you intend to tow in the mountain and Pacific west, make that discount 20% to allow for the altitudes and long steep grades out there.

I would not recommend any F150 for fiver towing.  Go 250, 350, or even 450 for the ones in the 34"+ range.  You may need duallies for the 20% of trailer-weight tongue weight of the bigger ones.

 

[SandR]

I have a 2007 F-150 crew cab with a 5.5' box.  The manual does not list a towing capacity for a 5th wheel because it is not recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[broncobilly]

The Rockwood 5th's are real nice and 1/2 ton towable, check them out here:
http://www.allseasonsrv.com/cf/shopmast/productdetailp.cfm?productid=52

 

[janpaul]

As for the long box vs. short box, here is a video of the Reese Revolution hitch. http://www.goevergreenrv.com/page/107/Reese-Revolution-5th-Wheel-Hitch
With this hitch there is no need for a sliding pin box.
This is what I wasn't sure how to verify.  What weights should I be comparing when taking axel weight into account?

That Reese box looks like a copy of what the Fifth Airborne pinbox does, I am in the fourth season with ours and it works like a champ.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I second just about every comment here. Too little truck and you shouldn't even consider a 5.5' bed length (which Ford also says). In truck nomenclature, a "short bed" is 6.5 ft, not 5.5.  Even the Revolution ad says 6.0 ft minimum!

The truck's payload rating will give you an idea of whether it can carry the 5W pin weight or not. It's not a perfect measure, because the payload is somewhat spread over both axles whereas the trailer pin weight falls mostly on the rear axle, but it gives you a rough idea.  Few half tons trucks can really handle 2100 lbs and that's the empty pin weight. When ready for the road, it will be more like 2500 lbs.

Take a look at the Fifth Airborne Sidewinder as an alternative to the Revolution. They invented this type of hitch.

 

[glen54737]

Detroit has increased the towing capacity of their trucks in recent years without actually making the trucks any stronger.

I would get an F-250.

I'll have to disagree they have been consistently putting larger brakes, more lugs on the wheels, heavier frames, upgraded transmissions and heavier roll cages in the cab and more horsepower.

I would also get the 250 because they have also been doing the same with that too.

 

[VanDrunken]

Guys,
Thank you for all of your excellent comments. This really is a learning experience for me as this is the first time I am going through this process of pairing a truck to a 5er. My father in law has a lot of experience with towing but he is not very good at explaining how the weight ratings should be calculated to tow safely.

So, based on many of your suggestions I will be looking at changing my plan do doing the following.

- look around for a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel. Hopefully, Jayco has one as I would really like to stay with that manufacturer.
- If I can find one then change the 5.5' box to the 6.5' box. (I didn't realize that the 6.5' box was still referred to as a
"short box" and they should probably call the 5.5' box the "tiny box")

- one day, upgrade to a 250 and the current 5er I am looking at (we all need a goal ).

 

[VanDrunken]

Would something with these specs be more realistic? Or am I still dreaming?

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs.) 7,795
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs.) 1,565
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs.) 10,200
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs.) 2,405
Exterior Length 30' 10"

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

That's more reasonable for a truck with an 11,000 lb tow capacity. Still need at least a 6.5 ft bed length, though.

 

[Carl L]

And then there is the question of where would he tow that trailer.  Out west it still is bit to heavy for a Ford 5.4L F-150 owing to the altitudes out on the plateaus and passes in the 11 Western States.  For there, I would want a trailer with a GVWR of no more than 9100 lbs.