Newbie Questions & Hidden Costs

[camper0711]

Hello everyone!

My wife and I have been talking about getting an RV for a while now, and after spending the afternoon at an RV show this past weekend we've decided we will.  We're at least 2 years out, of course, because the vehicle we have now is not suitable for towing anything other than a pop-out and with 3 kids under 5 I don't like the idea of them being mere millimeters of mesh from the outside world.  We thought about a Hi-Lo, Trailmanor, or possibly a Chalet but size is an issue--we don't want to outgrow it too quickly.  Not to mention with the Hi-Lo and Trailmanor, cost is much higher than a comparable full-size trailer.  Regardless, I'm in research mode and am going to be taking my time with it since I want to make the best choice.  Plus, neither of us are too excited about 2 toddlers and an infant on a long road trip anytime soon.

So longer story cut short, we're looking at going with something like a 32' Kingsport with a bunkhouse.  As I mentioned, we're about 2 years out due needing a new tow vehicle to go with it, and our wanting to hold off on anything until then. 

I've got a lot of questions, but the one I'm most curious about revolves around any 'hidden costs' that might be incurred with the purchase of camper.

For example, I know we'll have to lay down a concrete pad in order to park the trailer when it's not in use.  The last thing I want is to have it get 'stuck' after the rain, or have it sink into the yard.  I'm sure there are other complications with having it 'park' for a few weeks at a time (we plan to go out at least one weekend a month and on holidays).

So I ask those with the experience:  What other costs out there might you get hit with (other than insurance) that you didn't know about, but wish you did?

Also, I don't know if it's a touchy subject, but what are the rules for carrying firearms in your trailer?  I'm not anxious to do so, especially with the tight quarters and the kids, and honestly don't expect to unless I end up being a full timer or staying outside the campgrounds (which I can't imagine doing with young kids for safety sake).  That's just a curiosity thing really, and I'm much more interested in the hidden cost question if you only have time to answer one. 

Thanks!

Camper0711

 

[Carl L]

So longer story cut short, we're looking at going with something like a 32' Kingsport with a bunkhouse.  As I mentioned, we're about 2 years out due needing a new tow vehicle to go with it, and our wanting to hold off on anything until then.

 

Either 5th wheel or travel trailer, that will be a unit with a gross vehicle weight of some 11,000 lbs and will require a fairly beefy truck -- one with a tow rating of of 12,000 to 14,000 lbs depending on where you will tow and whether it is a diesel.

I've got a lot of questions, but the one I'm most curious about revolves around any 'hidden costs' that might be incurred with the purchase of camper.

Annual preventatiive maintenance -- wheel bearings, propane systems, fridge, furnace, fridge, and A/C.  Replace deep cycle batteries every 5-6 years, sooner if run to full discharge.  Replace tires every 5-7 years regardless of tread wear.  Tools (see list in Library).    Hitch mechanism -- $800 to $3000 depending on requirements.

For example, I know we'll have to lay down a concrete pad in order to park the trailer when it's not in use.  The last thing I want is to have it get 'stuck' after the rain, or have it sink into the yard.  I'm sure there are other complications with having it 'park' for a few weeks at a time (we plan to go out at least one weekend a month and on holidays).

Well a lot of folks store in a commercial storage facility, or a campground they frequent or is nearby.  If you have the room and want to store on your property, gravel is an alternative to concrete.  Do consider running power to the site, 20-30 amp would be ok for your purpose of storage.  That will keep the batteries in shape -- they should be charged monthly otherwise.  It also allows burning de-humiifying lamps.  Running a sewer line is also nice, allowing you to dump your tanks after coming in off the road.    A water line if also nice if the site is away from the hose bibs on your house.

Also, I don't know if it's a touchy subject, but what are the rules for carrying firearms in your trailer?  I'm not anxious to do so, especially with the tight quarters and the kids, and honestly don't expect to unless I end up being a full timer or staying outside the campgrounds (which I can't imagine doing with young kids for safety sake). 

That will depend entirely on the state you are in.  The South and SW are generally cool with the idea, but do not even think of driiving into Massachuesetts with one.  Secure storage is non-existant in a stock trailer.  If you carry a pistol in the unit with kids around use a small coded gun safe like the ones shown HERE 

 

[camper0711]

Either 5th wheel or travel trailer, that will be a unit with a gross vehicle weight of some 11,000 lbs and will require a fairly beefy truck -- one with a tow rating of of 12,000 to 14,000 lbs depending on where you will tow and whether it is a diesel.

The trailer we have in mind I think has a GVWR of about 9k lbs fully loaded, and as much as I like the 5th wheels my wife wasn't quite so impressed.  If we go full-time in 20 years or so, she agrees they're the way to go.  The truck I'm looking at is going to be either a Ford 250 or Chevy 2500HD--Crew cab (4 door) in either case.  Might go up to a 350 or 3500HD, but that will depend on the trailer.  Probably won't be diesel, as it won't just be used for towing.

Well a lot of folks store in a commercial storage facility, or a campground they frequent or is nearby.  If you have the room and want to store on your property, gravel is an alternative to concrete.   Do consider running power to the site, 20-30 amp would be ok for your purpose of storage.  That will keep the batteries in shape -- they should be charged monthly otherwise.   It also allows burning de-humiifying lamps.   Running a sewer line is also nice, allowing you to dump your tanks after coming in off the road.    A water line if also nice if the site is away from the hose bibs on your house.

Good call on the gravel, didn't think of that.  Certainly would be a LOT cheaper.  Don't think the association will let me run a sewer line, but that's something to consider.  I can certainly charge the batteries monthly, but we do plan to use it at least once a month.  I'm skeptical about the storage facility, around here they're a bit away and the cost is starting at $100 a month.  Not only the monthly charge, but the distance would make it less than ideal.  It is an option though. 

Didn't know about the tires, that's definitely good info.
 
Thanks fot he other info too, I appreciate it!

~Camper0711

 

[Honest John]

Howdy and Welcome!

At our former home we parked the trailer on gravel and had 30 AMP service installed so we could plug in and use all facilities (including A/C since we live in a hot climate).  When we purchased our new home we had 50 AMP service installed in the RV parking area adjacent to the house, since we considered upgrading our RV at some point.  (Later we did upgrade our RV and needed 50 AMP service, so it was a smart move.)  I'd suggest that if you have electrical put in you consider going with 50 AMP, it may cost more, but is very nice if you later need it.

Fortunately, the house has a sewer clean out point (so a plumber can run a snake under the house) on the side of the house where the RV is parked.  This allows me to hook up and dump tanks when necessary.  You might check to see if you have a similar arrangement.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I doubt if you need much of a pad to park that trailer - most people have nothing but their lawn.  My 34,000 lb motor home is parked on sandy soil 5-6l months a year. I used to have two parallel rows of 4x8x16 blocks in the ground where the wheels on my previous trailers rested, but I got tired of re-laying them every time we decided to change our parking spot, so now I just park.

But if your parking site is hilly or slanted, level it out.

 

[rankjo]

You seem to be putting this off because of concerns about a trailer not being secure enough. But what about an older smaller Class C??
Our ancient Class C had a full size double bed over the cab which would suit two full size adults, but three smaller kids would love being up there!!
And down below, you have the dinette as an adult double (or a kid's triple for that matter, and put the adults up above the cab), and we had a couch which made another double. We slept six adults in a 22 footer for short periods, so two adults and three small kids would be easy.
Plus fewer security issues, (though as a Canadian I abhorr handguns, especially in motorhomes).
You can buy a Class C for the same price as a new trailer (I think, though I never had a trailer)
Just something to think about.
Rankjo

 

[camper0711]

Thanks for more help!

John - good info about electrical, between you and Carl offering the same I figure it could really be something that I may want to do.  Where I plan to put it isn't too far from the garage, so would running an extension cord be enough?  I remember my dad 'plugging in' his old Pace Arrow years ago, but to be honest I don't know what he was doing.

Roamer - I'll keep that in mind too.  I hadn't thought about a couple rows of pavers, that might work out too.  I thought about just parking it, but I don't want to chew up the yard too bad.  Our ground is riddled with rocks and stones, and a higher elevation and lots of sun make it hard to keep grass alive.  A small 'parking area' we have on the side yard turned into a swamp really fast, and now I have to blacktop it or throw gravel down just to keep it from getting chewed up more.

Rankjo - Not a security problem with the trailer, but more a tent-camper or popup.  We thought about a used Class C, and that still might not be completely out of the question.  My fear with that though, is engine problems and I'm no mechanic.  That and gas prices.  Trust me, the C is VERY appealing due to the 'all in one' factor, but we like the idea of unhooking and driving our car around...and I don't want to deal with a TOAD.  Like I said, it's not out of the question but cost for a recent year with slide-outs would be exceptionally high.  We are considering a used one from Cruise America in a few years though, we do like the one they're offering.  No slide though :/

Thanks again everyone, lots of things to think about and I really appreciate that!  I want to make a good decision, because if we buy the wrong thing we probably won't use it so much or our experience would be clouded with 'shoulda, coulda, woulda'.

~Camper0711

 

[cougar3514v]

Plus, neither of us are too excited about 2 toddlers and an infant on a long road trip anytime soon.

Our toddler and dog were the reason for going with the camper.  The year before we bought our fifth-wheel, we took a grand total of 3 days of vacation as a family, and the dog had to be boarded at a kennel because we were staying in a hotel.  Grand total for the vacation (2 nights stay in Myrtle Beach) was almost $1000.  Okay, some of that was fuel, but half was the hotel and much of what remained was restaurants and the kennel for the dog.

The first year we had the camper, we spent over 40 days vacationing.  What a difference!  One of those trips was my and my son's first trip to Disney World at the Fort Wilderness Campground.  Many of our trips, however, were short ones.  We live about 100 miles from Gatlinburg and we made 4 or 5 weekend trips just in the first year.

Imagine being able to eat with your toddlers in your home every night instead of a restaurant.  I don't know if you have any pets, but most campgrounds allow them.  We don't have to be out of the room by 11 so that housekeeping can clean up.  If we do go out, we have a refrigerator for the leftovers my son didn't eat, but will want to eat at 9 PM for some reason only known to God and Matthew.  My wife and I were just talking in the car on the way to work this morning about how our airline fees for a trip we made to Boston in February would have paid for almost 2000 miles of fuel for the truck and camper.  We are thankful we didn't wait any longer than we did.

I've got a lot of questions, but the one I'm most curious about revolves around any 'hidden costs' that might be incurred with the purchase of camper.

There are also little things like propane, winterizing, and such.  I do much of the work myself, so the cost isn't much.  I have my son help me so that he can learn the importance of maintenance.  If you do decide to go with a 5'er (and yes, I did see your comments about your wife's opinion), beware that the hitch will be expensive, probably around $1K.

As for the firearms, I know a lot of people have them, but we've decided not to.  We have little stick on alarms on each of the entry/exit points so that we know if someone is coming in or if a little person is trying to get out.  Black labs also make really great alarm systems.  He's the sweetest dog on the planet unless you try to hurt my son.  He'll kill you then.  I do have an aluminum ball bat next to the bed, but I'm not entirely sure if it'll do any good.  My personal opinion is that people who are fully trained by the military have friendly-fire accidents.  I don't trust myself that much.  That is my own opinion about my own capabilities and should not be read as an opinion of what anyone else should or should not do.

It's great that you're doing the research nice and slowly.  That's what we did. The only "incorrect" prediction I was given by the members of this forum was that a lot of people trade up soon after buying their first camper.  Our first camper suits us perfectly and we'll be using it for years. I'm thinking it was our patience that allowed us to do it that way.

-Dave

 

[cougar3514v]

Oh, and one other thing.  We haven't yet invested a lot of money in the "storage" of our camper.  We just park it on the grass next to the house, (someday we'll pave) and use a house adapter connected to a 20 AMP GFC circuit in the garage to keep the batteries charged and to be able to turn on the lights if we go into it at night.  I am planning on getting a 30 AMP external circuit installed, but we don't really have an excess of cash either.

-Dave

 

[camper0711]

Thanks cougar.

Trust me, we know we'll save on travel costs. Due to us having 3 kids almost back to back, it chewed through my vacation time pretty fast so I don't have all that much.  We won't be considering a real 'vacation' until next year when I build up my vacation time again, and most of our trips are to visit family (We're in PA, they're in another part of the state, Virginia, and NJ) and at least 2.5 hours away.  Hitting a wedding in NJ this weekend, and we could park an RV at my parents (my dad had a sewer dump line put in years ago for thier old RV) for free.  As it is now, we're paying $230 for 2 nights hotel off-season.  No dog to board, but know that's a HUGE expense.

The primary reason we're waiting is due to finances, otherwise we'd have one already.  We want to knock out some debt before getting invested in a camper, the last thing I want is to buy it and park it.  Thought about waiting 4 years when all but the mortgage is gone, but I don't want to let too much time go by as I want to get the kids started young.  I figure 2 years is a fair compromise, and I wouldn't be too upset about taking on a loan at that point.  Besides, that's about the time when my wife and I want to hit Disney, and a new RV would be perfect to do it in.  I'm lucky in that I have every other friday off (pay for it during the week though), so two 3-day weekends a month makes it easy to do 1 short trip a month. 

Love the idea about the alarms, too.  Never thought of it, but that's a perfect solution. 

I've heard about the 'quick trade up' too, which is why we're looking at a larger travel trailer or 5th wheel.  I'm still hoping I can turn my wife around, but she's looking at the price-tag.  The 33' Gulfstreem Kingsport she loves is 19k at a local dealer, and the 34' Jayco Eagle 5th wheel that I love is 30k at the same dealer.  I do like the Gulfstreem, and 11k is a huge price difference for similiar floorplans.  Obviously there are plenty others to choose from, but those were the two we've seen in person that we both really liked.  Either way, both would suit us well for a few years.

Definitely will look into the power now, everyone makes it sound like it's essential. 

~Camper0711

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

You can plug the RV into any power available, but lower power (amps) restricts what you can run. If you just want to keep the battery charged and maybe the fridge cool, an extension cord (12 or 14 gauge) to the garage is fine. If you might want to run the a/c then the extension cord probably won't cut it. A 30A RV outlet gives you pretty decent power (probably all a rig like the Kingsport can use) but a 50A outlet provides for future, more sophisticated trailers. If you have to pay an electrician to come and install it, you may as well do it right the first time.

You should be suspicious that the Gulfstream is so much cheaper than the Jayco, yet appears to be equipped about the same. There will be surely be substantial differences but you are probably unaware of them. Try to learn as much as you can about the chassis (trailer frame, axles, brakes, etc), appliances, features, etc. to see if you can figure what what the Jayco has that the Gulfstream does not.  I'm not saying the Gulfstream is wrong for you (and $11k is a lot of money!), but  make sure you are OK on the value for the dollar.

An RV is an expense rather than an investment. You will lose a substantial amount of money trading, more even than on a car, so be cautious going in.

 

[ArdraF]

It's great that you're doing the research nice and slowly.  That's what we did. The only "incorrect" prediction I was given by the members of this forum was that a lot of people trade up soon after buying their first camper.  Our first camper suits us perfectly and we'll be using it for years. I'm thinking it was our patience that allowed us to do it that way.

Dave, I think you did it right by going slowly.  In my opinion the reason so many people trade up so soon after buying their first RV is because they didn't take their time.  We've met some owners who initially traded every six months or so because they didn't take the time to really figure out what they wanted the first time around.  In at least one case I'd have to say they had more money than common sense because every time they went to a rally one or both of them "fell in love with" a new model and traded in the "old" one.  When we met this couple they were on their THIRD high-end motorhome in about a year.  Heck, their underbay storage bays weren't even full yet!    In other words, they really didn't stop to think about what they really wanted or needed.  Most folks can't afford to make big mistakes like that....

ArdraF

 

[Honest John]

Thanks for more help!

John - good info about electrical, between you and Carl offering the same I figure it could really be something that I may want to do.  Where I plan to put it isn't too far from the garage, so would running an extension cord be enough?  I remember my dad 'plugging in' his old Pace Arrow years ago, but to be honest I don't know what he was doing.

Roamer - I'll keep that in mind too.  I hadn't thought about a couple rows of pavers, that might work out too.  I thought about just parking it, but I don't want to chew up the yard too bad.  Our ground is riddled with rocks and stones, and a higher elevation and lots of sun make it hard to keep grass alive.  A small 'parking area' we have on the side yard turned into a swamp really fast, and now I have to blacktop it or throw gravel down just to keep it from getting chewed up more.

Rankjo - Not a security problem with the trailer, but more a tent-camper or popup.  We thought about a used Class C, and that still might not be completely out of the question.  My fear with that though, is engine problems and I'm no mechanic.  That and gas prices.  Trust me, the C is VERY appealing due to the 'all in one' factor, but we like the idea of unhooking and driving our car around...and I don't want to deal with a TOAD.  Like I said, it's not out of the question but cost for a recent year with slide-outs would be exceptionally high.  We are considering a used one from Cruise America in a few years though, we do like the one they're offering.  No slide though :/

Thanks again everyone, lots of things to think about and I really appreciate that!  I want to make a good decision, because if we buy the wrong thing we probably won't use it so much or our experience would be clouded with 'shoulda, coulda, woulda'.

~Camper0711

An extension cord will provide some power, but not enough to run very much.  (You can run lights, a fan etc. That won't support running A/C or a large heater)  It would be better if you have 30 or 50 AMP service installed, and this requires an electrician.  If they install 50 amp service and an RV type connector you will be able to plug in just like you were in an RV park and use all of the facilities of your RV.

 

[MarkInNC]

From 1 Newbie to another.

I have not picked up a new ultralite yet.  But, sometime within the next two weeks.

I have been working on getting my tow prepared and making lists of the initial things Ill need for using the new addition.

*Hitch, ball platform, and ball.  (about 250), self install.
*Trailer Lamp Converter and harness. (about 75), self install.
*Assist air bags to stiffen up the rear. (about 290), self install.
*Electric brake controller. (about 125), self install.
*Anti-Sway bar. (about 100), self install.
*Cable and connector for lamp hook up. (about 25), self install.
*Bedding start for two via Walmart, (about 125).
*Kitchen stuff start via Walmart, (about 150).
*Potable water hose, (15).
*Wheel chocks, plastic level trays, level, lawn chairs, mat, outside carpet, second gas bottle, battery upgrade, AC cord converter, (about 600).
*long list remain...

Mark

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Good list - many people do not realize how the start-up costs can add up.  Some comments:

I would expect to get a trailer lamp converter (4 light/2 light universal converter, if needed) for under $20 and the wiring + connector plugs for another $10-15.

A Tekonsha Prodigy controller, about as good as it gets, is $100

I recommend that you get an Equalizer or Reese Dual Cam hitch. They costs more than others but you won't need the extra sway control

You didn't mention the tow vehicle make & model, but you really should not need the air bag assist. In any case, I would not add them until the need was indicated.

 

[steved]

along with wal-mart try the dollar stores for some of your needs you will be surprised what you find !!

 

[Carl L]

Hitch, ball platform, and ball.  (about 250), self install.

If you do, you had better have a good heavy duty torque wrench in your tool box -- something that can handle 300-400 lb. ft. of torque.  An impact wrench would be nice too.  I recommend SAE 8 bolts for the hitch mounting.

*Assist air bags to stiffen up the rear. (about 290), self install.

Give that a pass until you see if it is needed.  I do not think it will.  The function of the weight distributing hitch is to transfer 1/2 the hitch weight to the front axle.  Mount your hitch and adjust it first and drive a while before you spring for something that may screw you up.

 

[MarkInNC]

Yep, all the bolts were replaced with grade 8's, 3's came with the Hidden Hitch.  I used a breaker bar not a torque wrench, but I am fairly certain that I was able to apply at least 3 or 400 ft/lbs of force.

I don't have the height to put a weight distributing hitch on.  But, the trailer is very light, (dry weight 2200lbs).  The tounge weight is 250. A test weight of 300 loads the rear of the tow down by about an inch and a half.  So, a pair of small air bags designed for towing situations, will stiffen up the rear just a bit.

Mark

 

[Carl L]

I don't have the height to put a weight distributing hitch on

.

Man, what are you towing with, an East LA low rider?  ;D