M
MTRancher
Guest
I can't help but think some of this had to do with the driver also!
OOPS GVWR GCVWR Does it Matter - A leson learned
- Thread starter Ron
- Start date
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Carl L
Moderator Emeritus
ai guy said:
You are wrong.? The F-150 can be an excellent tow vehicle -- for trailers within its capabilities.? Light and converntionally hitched trailers.? Trailers over a GVWR of, say, 5500 lbs or a 5th wheel units should be moved up to F-250s or more.
I agree with Carl. I have a Dodge 1500 1/2 ton and pull a 28 ft lite TT with gusto. I've pulled it through the mountains of Colorado over 10,000 ft and had no problems maintaining decent speed and good handling. A 1/2 ton is fine if you stay "comfortably" within the GVWR GCVWR limits of the truck. That means one needs to consider the "lite" trailer models or the smaller length models.
I pull a 27' Prowler with an unladen weight of 5700lbs. WIth all the propane and all the stuff inside I'd guess it weighs in around 6000. My truck is a 1/2 ton 2006 Chevy Silverado 4x4...4.8 litre engine... with a maximum towing weight of 6400. Living here in the Adirondacks of NY with all these mountains I haven't had a problem going or stopping. I usually tow in regular drive (not overdrive) and have only used the towing switch a couple times. I've had a slight loss of speed on some of the longer uphill grades. My next truck I'll get the 5.3 litre engine ...More Power !
motojavaphil
Well-known member
Ron, Just a quick question on GVWR. When they do the GVWR on a 5r do they do that with all tanks full, including propane? I got to looking at some numbers and was surprised. Water is about 8lbs per gallon so if you had a 100 gallon freshwater tank that is 800lbs.
Thanx, Phil
Thanx, Phil
Karl
Moderator Emeritus
Phil,
Here are the definitions of GVWR and Curb Weight. As you can see, only the curb weight is an actual weight measurement, and even it does not include water, propane, etc. - just your base vehicle weight with fuel. It may or may not be a true weight, but represents what a standard, base model of that unit should weigh. Each rig is not weighed individually. The GVWR is not an actual measurement but simply a not-to-exceed, calculated number. I'm sure Gary or Carl will correct me if I got anything wrong. Oh, and water is 8.3lbs/gal and propane is 4.2lbs/gal.
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle (Base Curb Weight plus options plus cargo plus passengers). The vehicle's measured GVW must never exceed the GVWR. The GVWR along with other maximum safe vehicle weights, as well as tire, rim size and inflation pressure are shown on the vehicle's Safety Compliance Certification Label, located on the left front door lock facing or the door latch post pillar.
Base Curb Weight
Weight of the vehicle including a full tank of fuel and all standard equipment. It does not include driver, passengers, cargo or any optional equipment.
Here are the definitions of GVWR and Curb Weight. As you can see, only the curb weight is an actual weight measurement, and even it does not include water, propane, etc. - just your base vehicle weight with fuel. It may or may not be a true weight, but represents what a standard, base model of that unit should weigh. Each rig is not weighed individually. The GVWR is not an actual measurement but simply a not-to-exceed, calculated number. I'm sure Gary or Carl will correct me if I got anything wrong. Oh, and water is 8.3lbs/gal and propane is 4.2lbs/gal.
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle (Base Curb Weight plus options plus cargo plus passengers). The vehicle's measured GVW must never exceed the GVWR. The GVWR along with other maximum safe vehicle weights, as well as tire, rim size and inflation pressure are shown on the vehicle's Safety Compliance Certification Label, located on the left front door lock facing or the door latch post pillar.
Base Curb Weight
Weight of the vehicle including a full tank of fuel and all standard equipment. It does not include driver, passengers, cargo or any optional equipment.
Just a suggestion to all. Get the rig set up as you would for a "normal" trip, full water, food, enough clothes for the wife to live for 13 years 
and full fuel tanks (propane and tow vehicle).. Go to any of the truck stops with a scale and weigh 1) the truck with trailer hitched, then 2) pull forward and weigh the whole rig.
Pay the scale fee, and A) save the print out knowing you are within the design limits of the truck, hitch etc. or B) with check book in hand, head for the dealer to get a larger tow vehicle.
Folks, I can guarantee that what you think you are towing is not what's actually back there!
Johncmr
and full fuel tanks (propane and tow vehicle).. Go to any of the truck stops with a scale and weigh 1) the truck with trailer hitched, then 2) pull forward and weigh the whole rig. Pay the scale fee, and A) save the print out knowing you are within the design limits of the truck, hitch etc. or B) with check book in hand, head for the dealer to get a larger tow vehicle.
Folks, I can guarantee that what you think you are towing is not what's actually back there!
Johncmr
Karl
Moderator Emeritus
Modification: Weigh just the two front wheels of the truck before weighing the whole truck - That'll give you rear axle weight. Also weigh trailer without truck on scale. That'll allow you to derive pin/hitch weight.
Carl L
Moderator Emeritus
Johncmr said:Just a suggestion to all. Get the rig set up as you would for a "normal" trip, full water, food, enough clothes for the wife to live for 13 years
Pay the scale fee, and A) save the print out knowing you are within the design limits of the truck, hitch etc. or B) with check book in hand, head for the dealer to get a larger tow vehicle.
Folks, I can guarantee that what you think you are towing is not what's actually back there!
Johncmr
More than that. We have a file in the library that gives he procedure for a complete weighing of a traler. To see click HERE.
Dang folks this has got me to thinking. Now I have an 06 F-150 and it has disk brakes front and rear. But the issue of the trailer brakes being ineffective in reverse is worriesome at best. I tow a 5000 to 5500 lb, loaded trailer, and almost every time I am in the hills. Sometimes on dirt roads with a grade. I do have good all terrain tires on the truck, and good tires on the trailer. I often have my wife, myself, & one golden retriever, and about 300 lbs in the bed of the truck. I have pulled 10% grades on pavement, going over the pass between Victor, Idaho and Jackson Hole, Wyoming. My truck worked hard but made it over without stopping.
It would be a quick nightmare, to realize when you have to stop on a 10% grade, that your rig is pulling you backwards off a 1000 ft cliff! :'(
It would be a quick nightmare, to realize when you have to stop on a 10% grade, that your rig is pulling you backwards off a 1000 ft cliff! :'(
OP
OP
Ron
Moderator Emeritus
The important consideration is whether or not you are within you weight limits. When one exceeds the weight limits for their rig thay are placing themselves, anybody with them, and anybody around them in Jepardy. The guy that got pulled backwards was very likely over loaded since he had quite a load in the back of the pickup in addition to the trailer.
I have a 2001 Bobkat bumper pull that shows a dry weight of 5360 #. With all tanks empty except potentially 60 # of propane, the rig with front jack block weighs 5720 #. Sure need to weigh them on certified scales.
About steep gravel hills. Was at a bluegrass festival in Hugo Oklahoma, had to camp underneath a very steep gravel hill. Truck was a Toyota tacoma v6 4x4, camper was a 77 25' powler (weight about 5000#). When we left I put the tacoma in high range 4wd and got out and locked the hubs in. Was raised in them thar hills so I knew enough to have all the momentum needed to climb the hill when I reached the bottom of it. I do this by hitting fast and decelerating as I climb thus not letting the tires break traction, ideally, you will have only enough umph to crest the hill with little or no throttle applied. What I was unaware of until I reached the top was a group of beer drinking spectators (20 or so) giving me a HUGE applause.
It occurred to me after it was over that they had all taken bets as to if I would make the hill or go sliding back down to the bottom in a heap. By the way, my wife, got out and walked to the top of the hill. All breaking issues a side, a good positive locking 4x4 should be part of any tow package that is going to be used on gravel and hills.
Bo
About steep gravel hills. Was at a bluegrass festival in Hugo Oklahoma, had to camp underneath a very steep gravel hill. Truck was a Toyota tacoma v6 4x4, camper was a 77 25' powler (weight about 5000#). When we left I put the tacoma in high range 4wd and got out and locked the hubs in. Was raised in them thar hills so I knew enough to have all the momentum needed to climb the hill when I reached the bottom of it. I do this by hitting fast and decelerating as I climb thus not letting the tires break traction, ideally, you will have only enough umph to crest the hill with little or no throttle applied. What I was unaware of until I reached the top was a group of beer drinking spectators (20 or so) giving me a HUGE applause.
It occurred to me after it was over that they had all taken bets as to if I would make the hill or go sliding back down to the bottom in a heap. By the way, my wife, got out and walked to the top of the hill. All breaking issues a side, a good positive locking 4x4 should be part of any tow package that is going to be used on gravel and hills.
Bo
Tom
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2005
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Karen, from our Glossary of RV Terms ....
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR):
The maximum allowed weight for a vehicle with all of its contents and passengers along with the weight of any towed vehicle and its contents.
Hope that helps.
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR):
The maximum allowed weight for a vehicle with all of its contents and passengers along with the weight of any towed vehicle and its contents.
Hope that helps.
Reminds me of a close call I had with my flatbed trailer...
Took my brother-in-laws wife's explorer to pick up an old 8n ford tractor... Used my 16 foot trailer. The trailer is cheap and does not have leveling jacks or ramps with feet, I usually blocked up the back of the trailer with logs.. Anyway, on this trip we went to pick up the tractor on a property that was on a hill... Put the ramps down, started driving the poorly running 8n up on the trailer. The trailer tilts down, the rear of the Explorer tilts up, and then starts sliding down the hill toward a tree... I yelled back to my brother-in-law to put it in reverse and back it off... Thankfully it kept running and backed off... The explorer hopped a few times and missed the tree by 2 feet.
So, related to the story at the beginning of this thread, I feel that the TT could have been improperly balanced....? Could have had the water tanks fulll, and if they were in the rear of the trailer the center of weight would changed once the trailer was on an incline, therefore taking weight off of the rear wheels of the truck...... Now that I think about it, even if loaded properly, a steep incline would probably shift a portion of the weight off of the hitch... taking the weight off of the wheels, making the truck slide back......
Was the truck in the initial story underpowered and unable to climb the hill or were the tires spinning?
With trailers, hills bring the risk level up. Now after reading this story, if I ever end up on a big gravel hill I believe I will lock my 4x4 hubs in just to be safe... and also think about a back up/bail out plan should the units start sliding backward....
Took my brother-in-laws wife's explorer to pick up an old 8n ford tractor... Used my 16 foot trailer. The trailer is cheap and does not have leveling jacks or ramps with feet, I usually blocked up the back of the trailer with logs.. Anyway, on this trip we went to pick up the tractor on a property that was on a hill... Put the ramps down, started driving the poorly running 8n up on the trailer. The trailer tilts down, the rear of the Explorer tilts up, and then starts sliding down the hill toward a tree... I yelled back to my brother-in-law to put it in reverse and back it off... Thankfully it kept running and backed off... The explorer hopped a few times and missed the tree by 2 feet.
So, related to the story at the beginning of this thread, I feel that the TT could have been improperly balanced....? Could have had the water tanks fulll, and if they were in the rear of the trailer the center of weight would changed once the trailer was on an incline, therefore taking weight off of the rear wheels of the truck...... Now that I think about it, even if loaded properly, a steep incline would probably shift a portion of the weight off of the hitch... taking the weight off of the wheels, making the truck slide back......
Was the truck in the initial story underpowered and unable to climb the hill or were the tires spinning?
With trailers, hills bring the risk level up. Now after reading this story, if I ever end up on a big gravel hill I believe I will lock my 4x4 hubs in just to be safe... and also think about a back up/bail out plan should the units start sliding backward....
OP
OP
Ron
Moderator Emeritus
redbug2 said:
The truck appeared to be underpowered for the load. The truck had a shell on the back and it appeared to be full of who knows what. When the truck powered out the driver attempted to the reverse movement using the brakes. Appeared all four tires were locked up but sliding. Have no idea what he had in the trailer or how it was loaded. The guy did indicate he had no problem the time before when he came out of the same place. But he may not have had the stuff in the back of the pickup.
Carl L
Moderator Emeritus
Translation: The twit had managed to skin by before. This time the odds caught up with him.
