PERFORMANCE CHIPS
- Thread starter tebrown
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
sheltie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Posts
- 526
tebrown said:
I don't know specifically to what you are referring, but I have an UltraPower upgrade to my 8.1l and I've been very happy with it for the past two years. With regard to increasing gas mileage, they claim a possibility of .5-1 mpg increase, which I believe is accurate. However, I'd venture to say that most of us get it because of the "kick in the butt" increase over the stock gasser. I agree with Ned that if many of the claims were true, they would be under the mandate of the federal government. Personally, I wouldn't believe anything that someone claimed that a chip would significantly increase your mpg.
gwcowgill
Well-known member
Most of the chips get some power gains by tinkering with the timing. As far as increasing mileage, I did not see any increase in fuel economy on my vehicles where I have run the chip and only moderate power increases. I had a chassis dyno when I was teaching and have tested several different chips in different vehicles. Some chips gave more power under certain conditions.
The real question is can you recover the costs? I don't think so if you are looking for economy. On diesels be careful with Exhaust Gas temps when running a chip as the added fuel tends to push temps up and even engine temps sometimes exceed the capacity of the cooling system.
The real question is can you recover the costs? I don't think so if you are looking for economy. On diesels be careful with Exhaust Gas temps when running a chip as the added fuel tends to push temps up and even engine temps sometimes exceed the capacity of the cooling system.
BillB3857
Well-known member
I may be old fashioned, but I firmly believe that if the overall design of the vehicle could accommodate an increase of power, the manufacturer of the vehicle would have already added it. They are always trying to one-up the competition. Using an aftermarket power adder puts you at risk of overloading other components such as exhaust system (over heating), transmission (untold internal damage), and anything else in the drive train. My tow vehicle was purchased with the power needed to do what I wanted it to do without trying to add power.
Reading various forums, I find that those that have the most problems are those that have somehow modified their vehicle. (Larger tires, power adders, lift systems, etc.)
End of rant 8)
Reading various forums, I find that those that have the most problems are those that have somehow modified their vehicle. (Larger tires, power adders, lift systems, etc.)
End of rant 8)
gasman28110
New member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Posts
- 2
I have the SCT tuner on my F 2005 250 EXT cab SB. IF you FOLLOW what the tuner programmer tells you, will have no issues with the tuner. IF I drive my truck as I SHOULD when in the 120HP tune, I will gain 1-2 MPG over stock. If I do not drive as I should then I have made several Mustangs look funny at the stop light. If I am pulling my 36' 5er to the coast I will de-tune to 50HP tow mode and have absolutely no issues with heating and plenty of take off power on the grades. As a disclaimer, I will add that if I and when I go to the mountains I will return to the stock tune and keep a sharp eye on the EGT's.
gwcowgill
Well-known member
Note, many of the tuners indicate that they are for off-road use only and in many cases will invalidate any warranty. Some of the tuners also leave a fingerprint on todays computerized vehicles so you just can't remove it and try to get warranty work done.
Although some still call them 'chips', I believe it's been quite a few years since vehicles used chips. These were the ones that were actually plugged into the vehicle and left there. No adjustment, no nothing. Plug in play so to speak. Today's programmers are just that. With electronics in these new vehicles more like conventional computers, both manufacturers and aftermarket companies have vastly more control and tunablility. As with the statement that if they worked the manufacturer would already incorporate it, or the government mandate it is not really true. The manufacturer has to make there product appease the masses and legalities of the states it sells them. So alot of compromise is done to make the vehicle work sufficiently for everyone and still pass all laws in all 50 states. Now, with that being said, some may very well be happy with there stock truck, which is fine. But there is also those that always want a little better. Modifying ones automobile has been going on since the first car hit the road. Me personally, buying a programmer strictly for added mileage gains only doesn't make sense. Mainly because it would take many, many miles of driving to recoup the costs. This is on diesel trucks, and would be more so on gas powered trucks.
I do run a programmer on my Dodge/Cummins. It's a Smarty Jr. and have it set on performance, which is a 100hp addition. I've installed this roughly 3 years ago and never removed it. I daily drive at this setting, and tow with this setting (14k 5'er). But I've also done other things to. I have an aftermarket cold air intake, a performance free flow exhaust, and most importantly guages. What this has gained me is roughly 2 miles per gallon overall increase in towing, but more importantly more usable power for when I need it.
So as for the original question, yes they can work. But just buying one hoping for a 5mpg increase will just lead to disappointment. Programmers usually have more results with diesel motors than gas versions. And with diesel programmers they all very in what they do. Some will cause very high EGT in a stock truck, others not so much. Just remember that the lower numbers ---30hp, 50hp--- will for most intents get the better mileage and still have acceptable EGT. When you start getting into the larger numbers ---100hp,150hp, 200hp --- these are offroad, racing, sled pulling levels and will melt down a stock truck in a heart beat. So the first thing to do if you want to go the programmer route is research, research, research. Know what you are getting before you get it. And to me, the most important mod one should have, and the very first one, is gauges. Especially on a diesel. If you don't know what's going on inside, then quite possibly the insides could wind up outside.
I do run a programmer on my Dodge/Cummins. It's a Smarty Jr. and have it set on performance, which is a 100hp addition. I've installed this roughly 3 years ago and never removed it. I daily drive at this setting, and tow with this setting (14k 5'er). But I've also done other things to. I have an aftermarket cold air intake, a performance free flow exhaust, and most importantly guages. What this has gained me is roughly 2 miles per gallon overall increase in towing, but more importantly more usable power for when I need it.
So as for the original question, yes they can work. But just buying one hoping for a 5mpg increase will just lead to disappointment. Programmers usually have more results with diesel motors than gas versions. And with diesel programmers they all very in what they do. Some will cause very high EGT in a stock truck, others not so much. Just remember that the lower numbers ---30hp, 50hp--- will for most intents get the better mileage and still have acceptable EGT. When you start getting into the larger numbers ---100hp,150hp, 200hp --- these are offroad, racing, sled pulling levels and will melt down a stock truck in a heart beat. So the first thing to do if you want to go the programmer route is research, research, research. Know what you are getting before you get it. And to me, the most important mod one should have, and the very first one, is gauges. Especially on a diesel. If you don't know what's going on inside, then quite possibly the insides could wind up outside.
ironrat
Well-known member
For the most part depending on who's chip you got they do add power. You could see mpg increase if you drive it the same as you did before the chip, but most of us will use the power and that negates the mpg increase. As far as the OEM's would do what the chips do, usually not because most chips will not pass smog inspections. The OEM's and the after market can most certainly make more power than they sell the vehicle with, but it is a smog issue why they don't not that it can't make power.
Hi Kenz:
You didn't indicate what milage you get pulling the 5er or what year or engine. I have a 2011 GM and they increased the HP by 40 and the torque by 100 and claimed 11% better milage. I didn't see that and the truck weighs 800 lbs. more than the 07. You can't notice the power difference but there is a huge handling advantage to the newer heavier chassie. I agree you can buy power but at what cost and you are still on the same suspension and brakes. I get 10.2mpg pulling 12,500 lbs. My friend got the same milage with the same truck pulling 6000lb. travel trailer. The only thing we can figure is the aero dynamcs. MIRACLES just aren,t there.
You didn't indicate what milage you get pulling the 5er or what year or engine. I have a 2011 GM and they increased the HP by 40 and the torque by 100 and claimed 11% better milage. I didn't see that and the truck weighs 800 lbs. more than the 07. You can't notice the power difference but there is a huge handling advantage to the newer heavier chassie. I agree you can buy power but at what cost and you are still on the same suspension and brakes. I get 10.2mpg pulling 12,500 lbs. My friend got the same milage with the same truck pulling 6000lb. travel trailer. The only thing we can figure is the aero dynamcs. MIRACLES just aren,t there.
SargeW
Site Team
Manuel nailed it. The EPA is the biggest problem. More power is more fuel, more air, and timing change. And not getting caught...GIB said:
Many poeple will state that if the manufactures wanted to have extra power then they would have made the motor to produce the power. The other comment is that the motor is set at the optimum performance from the factory. Manufactures actually detune their motors. The reason for this is liabilty and warranty. If the motor is detuned to run less HP & Torque, then there is less chance of warranty issues. The manufacture will actually have less warranty issues by doing this, thus saving them costs.
I have one of the old superchips in my 97 Ford PSD. Its been a solid performer and when I drive it easy, I do obtain better mileage. However, when I need the extra power towing my enclosed sled trailer up a canyon then I have it. I have 4:10's in the rear and get about 17-18. If I run 80, then its about 15 with out towing. Towing I get around 13-14, but my trailer is taller then my pickup so I lose some to wind.
I have been wanting to get a tuner for my 2002 HR Endeavor. I know Bully Dog makes one as does others. Too get the best out of your upgrade you will need to open up your exhaust to less restrictive 4 or 5". Also look at a free flowing intake. Once that is done then the tuner will help as well. Pushing more fuel thru your motor with restrictive intake and exhaust will only make your exhaust temps higher and you will not be able to use your tuner to the best set up.
I have one of the old superchips in my 97 Ford PSD. Its been a solid performer and when I drive it easy, I do obtain better mileage. However, when I need the extra power towing my enclosed sled trailer up a canyon then I have it. I have 4:10's in the rear and get about 17-18. If I run 80, then its about 15 with out towing. Towing I get around 13-14, but my trailer is taller then my pickup so I lose some to wind.
I have been wanting to get a tuner for my 2002 HR Endeavor. I know Bully Dog makes one as does others. Too get the best out of your upgrade you will need to open up your exhaust to less restrictive 4 or 5". Also look at a free flowing intake. Once that is done then the tuner will help as well. Pushing more fuel thru your motor with restrictive intake and exhaust will only make your exhaust temps higher and you will not be able to use your tuner to the best set up.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
IMO the "tuners" (chips) may give you some benefits in certain usage scenarios, especially if you add them to a passenger car or light truck, whose stock tuning is a compromise designed to meet the expectations of drivers everywhere and the laws of 50 states. It is certainly possible to fine tune a modern engine for better performance or mpg IF you know where and how the vehicle will be driven. By the way, the standard "chip" in a gas engine used in a Class A is almost surely going to be different than the same engine in a stock pick-up or van - it will already be tuned to better handle the vastly different vehicle & performance characteristics. And the different EPA requirements for a medium or heavy duty vehicle. Ditto for the small Cummins diesel - the set-up is different in a Dodge pickup truck than in a Class A motorhome chassis.
In general, though, you aren't going to see any magic improvement. Automotive engineers have decades of experience and data on the optimal ways to handle the typical drivers needs in the broad range of conditions that most of us encounter.
In general, though, you aren't going to see any magic improvement. Automotive engineers have decades of experience and data on the optimal ways to handle the typical drivers needs in the broad range of conditions that most of us encounter.
mercoupe50
Well-known member
I second Gary's post. A diesel engine in a pickup is "tuned" at the factory for a broad range of applications such as economy, towing and oerformance trying to satisfy the broad range of applications. Tuners will zero in on a particulat application. A motorhome does not see that broad range of applications so they are tuned for the one specific application they serve.
denmarc
Well-known member
In general terms, my opinion goes this way...
It doesn't matter the type of vehicle you drive. Whether towing or not. Big or small. Back and forth to work or just for recreation. The result is too close to the same. The powerplants in our vehicles are engineered for one type/general type of application, depending on the research done in choosing our vehicles before purchase for the job we expected of it. At least that would be the proper thing to do before signing the dotted line. If you you made the wrong choice for towing, or that price on the DP was just too good, regardless of the fact you may have been looking for something more economical, oh well. That is the chance you take.
My experience with an add-on power chip (automotive applications, mind you) is the torque to the ground may be improved, but you will suffer in fuel economy. I don't see any difference due to the fact I drive a diesel all week for a living. Too many think that the chip is the answer and will save them money on the next fill up. But, they drive their vehicle exactly the same way after installation. Just due to habit and depending on that chip to remedy their want for better fuel economy and/or performance.
IMHO, driving habits make a heck of a lot more of a difference than any chip does. Save your money.
It doesn't matter the type of vehicle you drive. Whether towing or not. Big or small. Back and forth to work or just for recreation. The result is too close to the same. The powerplants in our vehicles are engineered for one type/general type of application, depending on the research done in choosing our vehicles before purchase for the job we expected of it. At least that would be the proper thing to do before signing the dotted line. If you you made the wrong choice for towing, or that price on the DP was just too good, regardless of the fact you may have been looking for something more economical, oh well. That is the chance you take.
My experience with an add-on power chip (automotive applications, mind you) is the torque to the ground may be improved, but you will suffer in fuel economy. I don't see any difference due to the fact I drive a diesel all week for a living. Too many think that the chip is the answer and will save them money on the next fill up. But, they drive their vehicle exactly the same way after installation. Just due to habit and depending on that chip to remedy their want for better fuel economy and/or performance.
IMHO, driving habits make a heck of a lot more of a difference than any chip does. Save your money.
gwcowgill
Well-known member
Keep in mind that the Auto Engineers have certain Federal requirements to meet therefore, they tune the engines to meet these requirements. High cylinder temps produce high NOx emissions while other conditions produce high CO emissions. If you live in a state that has emission inspection then a tuner may not be a good idea. If your vehicle is still under warranty then a tuner may not be a good idea. Cummins on the newer diesels can tell by the fingerprint left in the computer that you have been running a tuner even if it is removed from the vehicle before taking it in for warranty work. I know other manufacturers are either or planning on programming their computers to retain this information. GM has been using snapshot and recording for years.
Remember your vehicle is programmed for optimal operation under normal operating conditions to give good economy, power and still meet federal requirements. There are some conditions where a programmer may actually provide a benefit.
Remember your vehicle is programmed for optimal operation under normal operating conditions to give good economy, power and still meet federal requirements. There are some conditions where a programmer may actually provide a benefit.
BernieD
Well-known member
Diesel engines with the 6 speed Allison transmission (not sure about all models but true about the MH series) have a mode button. On RVs, when the engine is started, the tranny is in "normal" mode and you have to push the mode button to put the tranny into economy. On trucks with similar transmission, the default is economy and you push the mode button for performance. I have been told (granted hearsay) that the RV manufacturers insisted on performance as the default because it would demo better to prospective purchasers.
SargeW
Site Team
The mode button on the Allison trans changes the shift points in the MH application. With the mode button on, the trans will up shift earlier, and keep the trans in a higher gear longer when the speed starts dropping. If climbing a grade or going pedal down to pass another vehicle, you wouldn't want to have the mode button on as you would want the trans to downshift sooner and stay in a lower gear longer.
It doesn't make much difference when starting from a stop, up until about 4th gear. It will also get you into 6th gear about 200 RPM sooner when rolling down the road on a flat surface.
It doesn't make much difference when starting from a stop, up until about 4th gear. It will also get you into 6th gear about 200 RPM sooner when rolling down the road on a flat surface.
Mopar1973Man
Well-known member
Like myself I'm running Edge Comp on my Dodge / Cummins I'm improved from the stock 16-18 MPG to about 22-23 MPG empty and getting about 12-14 MPG pulling the RV. As for my settings I run it wide open on the maximum setting no issues with EGT's nor coolant temps. But I produce more power than most trucks at roughly 400 HP and 900 FT/LBS. Makes RV towing a dream... 8)
Little more about my truck.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/25-2002-dodge-ram-2500
Little more about my truck.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/25-2002-dodge-ram-2500
GIB said:
Gib,
My truck is a 2005 Dodge 3500 quad cab dually 2wd with 6-spd manual trans. I run a Smarty jr. set on the 100hp (performance) setting. timing advanced as much as allowed, and torque management off. I get 17-18mpg empty on short runs (back and forth to work), and on our trip from Michigan to Custer SD and back the whole trip averaged 11.5mpg. Last springs trip to the Fla. keys and back was a tad over 12mpg. Trailer weighed in the neighborhood of 14k. I also have a free flowing exhaust and a free flowing air intake. It's been along time since I did a mileage check with the stock settings, but I believe it was about 2mpg less than now. I do want to emphasis that I didn't buy this for mileage only (although I might have mentioned it to the wife at the time of purchase
). The amount of available power for taking off and driving with the trailer was what I was looking for. This smaller programmer got me 357hp and 787ft/lbs measured at the rear wheels on a dyno last march. One has to remember that a truck can loose 75-150hp thru the drive train before it gets to the wheels. So theoretically I have about 425hp and 850-900ft/lb at the flywheel.
