personal safety while on the road

[Luca1369]

You made somve VERY good points Orick.  There can be a very short period of time between drawing a weapon too soon and drawing a weapon too late. 

Unfortunately some folks think that just because they have a weapon in their hand it's an instant deterrent.  It's not.  As I said in an ealier post, it's entirely in the hands of the person with the weapon.

If someone carries a weapon simply because it makes them feel secure, or more powerful, they are carrying that weapon for the wrong reason.  As someone mentioned, it is a tool.  It is a tool that will save your life, and your family's lives, if you know how to use it and are prepared to use it.

One must also be able to judge what is truly a threat, and here too you can go too far or not enough.  I can't say anything about the guy on the four wheeler.  I wasn't there and didn't see the guys in the road or the looks on their faces.  I cannot say if it was a valid threat or not.  However, judging by what he wrote I feel that the poster acted just a mite hastily, but hindsight is always twenty/twenty. 

Then again, this subject easily brings out the chest thumper in a person.   

 

[Fullabunk]

Orick in reference to your second comment.  You need to go back and read what I said.  I was not in the open desert but I said in the mountains on a Forest Service road.  I had two choices, ahead or back.  Left or right were not options.  I decided to accelerate BEFORE they could close the road in front of me.  Since you were not there, you have no clue.  My comments were of my experiences.  In most states there is no requirement that the alleged attacker be armed, only that the defender was in fear for their lives.  When 4 attackers hop off the back of their pickup and come at me with beer bottles, I have no intention asking them for tea. If I was to become a perpetrator, so be it, I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.  My whole point is that we don't live in a milk toast world and hide in an RV campground.  I would expect that most RV folks get out and about.  Each must make his or her own choice and live with it.

In reference to your first comment.  I live in Texas  where the concealed carry law is highly supported by law enforcement.  I talk with many LEOs that really encourage carrying.  On two occasions while driving in the state in a rental car, during routine traffic stops I was chastised by the officer for not carrying at that time.

 

[Orick]

Fair enough Fullabunk.  I had missed the part about the four guys armed with beer bottles jumping out of the back of a pick up and coming at you.  What I read was "My sweet wife and I were 4 wheeling in our jeep on an old forest service road when we came across small group of what might have been illegals. Being drunk they decided to impede our progress by standing in the road. Brandishing the 40 cal, I  accelerating at them ending the situation as they dove for cover".


It's clear that, although we live in the same world, we have had vastly different experiences and view them differently.  I have certainly never been chastised by a LEO for not carrying a weapon either.

Best of luck to you and thanks again for the clarification.

 

[Ray D]

Orick, thanks for an opening. It's something I sometimes fret about. You quoted,

Fullabunk.  I had missed the part about the four guys armed with beer bottles jumping out of the back of a pick up and coming at you.

You didn't miss it. It wasn't there. There wasn't enough info to make a valid complaint, critiqueing his actions. That is forgiveable, in that such stories used here in support of opinions must, necessarily, be short. Being brief sometimes leaves out important details, which might have been helpful for second guessing purposes. I say give Fullabunk some leeway, unless he wants to rewrite the whole story, with details. I wouldn't want to do that, if it were me.    (and I'm pretty accomplished at dragging out a story, making it long enough to satisfy the most discriminating tastes.)

It's clear that, although we live in the same world, we have had vastly different experiences and view them differently.

All of us have different experiences and all of them are unique. We are more interesting, that way. Life is great. Glad I'm still here.

I have certainly never been chastised by a LEO for not carrying a weapon either.

I have, although "chastised" wouldn't, usually, be the word I would choose. My neighborhood went quickly south, in 1987, due to drug dealers moving in and setting up shop. I resisted, and attracted LEO attention as a result.

I got a lot of help, free training, advice on what weapons I needed, and how and when to carry them, from Law Enforcement. One officer, a medal recipient, and I, had a long term acquaintance and an argument that lasted years and wasn't always exactly friendly. He was incensed that I took a home invader out, mano a mano, when I was armed at the time. (It was close quarters, obviously, and the gun was in the way. I tried, but I was unable to use it.)

I had met the officer, that night. He was the supervisor of the officers who responded. We had a good relationship, but a real disagreement on that event. His reasoning was that I had a "license to kill," the means to do it, good reason to do it, and failed - resulting, long term, in the deaths of other victims. My position was that I saved my household, and that I didn't kill anybody, that night. (Technically, he was correct.) I am not, however, responsible for the BG's other victims. Courts gave him that opportunity. He's dead, now. Victim of homocide in a Utah prison. (Live by the sword - Die by the sword.)

I left a whole lot out of the above story. This is an RV site. In a gun forum, I would, and have, had fun with that story.

Last, I have never drawn a weapon to "scare" somebody. Intentionally frightening some one is not acceptable to me. I hate people who do that! That said, I have drawn a weapon on many occasions and had the issue resolve itself, instantly. Pretty much needs to be that way. I am always relieved. No shots fired is best. Sometimes, it doesn't work that way, but usually, that's it. Also, I have drawn a weapon in anticipation of an issue. I don't "brandish" it "The fastest draw is a gun already in your hand." I usually carry more than one gun. "The fastest reload is another gun."

Ray D  ;D

 

[Orick]

RayD... thanks for your insights.  I have absolutely no problem with anything you've said.  It certainly points out once again how different life experiences are for most of us.  If I had shared the same experiences as you, I might well share your views and practices now.  I've never had LEO even remotely suggest that I should arm myself... even once...  I've never even known anyone who has drawn a weapon "many times" to resolve an issue... and (to my knowledge) I've never know anyone who carried even one gun, much less multiple guns unless in the line of duty.

Although our backgrounds are different, and we might have different views regarding methods, I think I understand and respect your point of view.

Be Safe... 

 

[Lindsay Richards]

I bought a pistol (Ket-Tec 380 auto) from a police officer who carried it as a second gun for his service pistol. He was all for citizens carrying weapons. Our local sheriff waives the fingerprinting fee if you are getting a concealed carry permit. Many LEO think citizens should be armed.

 

[Ray D]

RayD... thanks for your insights.  I have absolutely no problem with anything you've said.

Orick, very nice, excuse me for a minute while I deflate my shirt.  :   The feeling is mutual.   

I find that there are very few opinions that bother me. Everyone, as you said, has a different life experience -different sense of the world, different attitude as a result. I get along with people all over the political spectrum. A person has an independent mind, and no two hold the same thoughts and beliefs. I think I differ little from you - or from many others here. The difference is in life experience. I was lucky enough to suddenly acquire neighbors, across the street, that were harsh, aggressive, industrious drug dealers, fresh from Los Angeles - into sleepy little Boise, Idaho.

They had to go somewhere. It was a lottery. I won.   

Made me different. I could have knuckled under, but I didn't have a clue as to how serious resisting them would be, and I'm a bit independent. I'm smart enough to know that that was not a normal experience. At first, the police were horrified at my actions. I thought they dissapproved. Got a lawyer to find out where my rights began. (Kept him many years. Finally started helping me pro-bono.) Then, some cops started helping. I am alive today because of them. I could have been happy for a long time, without that kind of education.

If you'll draw a normal statistical bell curve, you'll notice most, the bulk of the samples are in the (normal) middle, the bell. Now look out toward the right at that thin tail. Somebody lives out there. Look now, and I'll wave to you.  ;D 

Been working my way back toward the bell. Maybe I'll get there soon. The past seems to be receeding. Maybe it will go away! : 

I do appreciate and understand people with other views. I don't resent them. No reason and no need to do that. Got a lot of friends who differ with me. That's fine. Wish I could walk in their shoes.   

Ray, luck of the draw, D  ;D

 

[Orick]

Ok, pretty ironic Ray, but we probably used to be neighbors.  I moved from the SF Bay Area to the Boise area in 1977.  I worked for HP and had a house built on a hilly 6 acres out behind Shadow Valley Golf Course off Hyw 55.  Also ironic is that is when I bought my first hand gun... a 38 special Trooper revolver... from the old pawn shop down town.  I remember a hunter friend of mine loaded it up with 4 snake shot and 2 hollow points for me with instructions to not stop pulling the trigger until I kept hearing clicks.  I was concerned with being out in the boonies and it sounds like there was more reason to be on your toes in town... or, both   

Great discussion.
Thanks for your views.
Sleep well.